Well,

My newest character has just died a rather sour PVP death, caused by a combination of engine-related problems, bad coordination and hasty decisions on my part. It's sad when you die a PVP death like this and can't even blame SNOTEYE or anybody but yourself and the circumstances!

In any case, I write to you all, EfUers, because I have a problem. A couple of years ago, it seemed easy, for me, to shape and mold the world in the way I wanted. I created characters with the right stats to do what I wanted them to do, played out their stories... Sometimes, they were altered immensely by the circumstances surrounding them. Other times, they were able to shape and lead other characters to (hopefully) greater things.

For quite some time now, I've found myself incapable of playing EfU at that level. I get too caught up on the questing mill, make enemies too quickly, die in PVP I can't hope to win or got drawn into by circumstances which aren't my fault - or anyone else's - just those things that happen over the course of our stories on the server.

I question if others who previously thought it easy to roll up their sleeves and tackle many aspects and facets of the EfU world with their characters may be having the same problem as I, finding things excessively static for one reason or another, or obstacles that present themselves again and again (not necessarily the same, or in the same form) and stop their characters from succeeding. I'm aware not all characters can succeed, but I'm fairly certain with a good amount of tries and effort you should be able to reap some rewards.

It may be the case that I've been having a stroke of bad luck that has been lasting since early January of this year. Possible, yes. But I think I may be doing something wrong, and so I posit to you this question: What do you do when you can't get things moving on EfU? I still have loads of fun playing the game and roleplaying my characters, but I think there's got to be a wrench in the gears somewhere, to make it so hard for me to do something I could do with such ease a couple of years ago. Is it the current state of things IC? Lack of active players in the particular timezones I frequent? High character turnover rate caused by rampant FD'ing (that no one in particular is at fault for, I'll say) that seems to be the solution for everything these days?

If anyone has a solution or a contribution, I'd hear it out.

Thank you kindly.

I have that problem to Klairing. Your not alone.

Ditto Kiaring. Its been that way for me since I was playing Fawkes. I've not felt like my PCs can get things accomplished or influence much at all. Kudos to those people who are pulling it off, seems I can't anymore.

I can't say what it is for certain, but I reckon its a combination of many factors. Some you listed, others though too that I just don't feel like hashing into.

I draw inspiration from fictional characters I like in books, television and movies, and make a unique personality blend that I enjoy with a few underlying goals and uncertain methods for reaching them, keeping in mind my background, and letting it influence my behaviour to certain stimuli. I then struggle in the world, overcome obstacles, gain power, and doorways seem to just open themselves up to me. In this way I do believe I function better if I do not follow the application layout when creating a character, this probably does not work for many others however, so disregard that.

My advice would be to take less notice of questing trains, and instead look for ways and opportunities to increase your character's/faction's influence upon and standing amongst others. Player factions can be a hard place to start, as your group may find itself focusing solely upon questing, rather than changing the server and creating interesting stories, lacking at first a direct purpose and drive, both making it less enjoyable and more difficult to retain and gain members.

I believe it is best to instead slowly work yourself up the social ladder, and then work to create the faction, rather than create it with character creation. I would also suggest practicing restraint when opportunities to engage in PVP arise, while they may result in brief enjoyment in the short run, they almost invariably lead to a short death which can lead to a negative state of emotion after having put so much effort into the concept.

Imo one of the best things about the server is character turnover. It is easy to get stuck in a grind, as you mentioned, and pursue the "norm" of the server. It maybe your mindset as far as playing diffrent characters or the same. One of the best times i have had on this server is when i played a council member and it was more rp oriented than pvp. There was plenty of conflict and things going on to keep me busy. I also find that once a player makes a very successful character, as far as shaping the server, that they always strive to reach that podium with all others as far as a impact to the game in general. One of the things that may help is playing a character or alignment that you normaly would never do. When i first came to this server i looked up to alot of players because of their rp awesomness and stories, and activly strived to better myself in one way or another. However over the past 4 months my interest in the server has dwindled alot due to family things and commitments out of game.

It can be very frusterating to try to play a character only to find them at the end of a bitter pvp or lack of interest from others in a cause that you find valueable. Ask yourself alot of question such as...what was i doing before that i am not doing now?....or is there out of game conflicts that are preventing you from pursuing enjoyment from the game? Another thing is there is alot of new faces on the server and some of the really great role players have left, or moved on.( and some are now d.m.'s). Personally i would like to see the server evolve more as far as factions and out of sanctuary threats. So many awesome stories get cut short and new ones start so often that hell i don't even know what is going on anymore. But i guess such is how it is.

I'm having a similar problem, but add to that the fact that I can't come up with a character concept I'm fond of playing. I'm spoiled by my time in a local vault server.

Maybe try to sign on with a different crew of players than you usually play with. Things might move in a different fashion.

PM me.

Perhaps, try makeing a flunky. Not an axe wielding min/maxed halforc, but a character who wishes to follow, rather then lead, simply earn a living rather then rule the world. A simple, escaped slave trying to survive. You can flavor it however you want, the details are always the fun part, but try entering the gameworld without a grand scheme, and see where it takes you. We have so many amazieng story tellers here, it usually only takes a few hours to stumble on to some plot or another. Some of my fondest characters have started like this, getting swept up in ongoing plots once he/she arrives, and then haveing a lasting impact.Try letting the servers current status shape you, reacting to every encounter with PC's as a true encounter, shapeing your reactions in the future.... rather then shapeing the world around you. It sounds kind of lazy, but actually it lends itself to immersion quite well. And no frustrations from your schemes being blocked, ended by pvp, or just lack of intrest. Not all pc's can be the leaders, driveing forces of change, and dire villains. And all those that posted above, are folks who I have followed into marvelous stories, including you, Kiaring ...

Sadly I understand the feeling.

After playing Elapidae I was kinda slumpy, and my Duergar character got entirely too enthralled in the grind of questing since as a PC he was a mercenary, so RPly it made sense for him to snag any job. Overall he did little, and I was pretty fed up with the situation.

Reccently though I've taken a rather abstract idea, and have been rolling with it, and not so much focus on "Involving people in RP", but rather just having fun with the game because its a game, and games are fun. Miktek doesn't actively seek goons, or flunkies, or even friends, and I've found playing him is a ton of fun especially given the crunch going on with finals.

A little self indulgence never hurts, and over the last week or so alot of my play time has been limited to exploring the server, and hitting hard on the druid philosophy. I find ways to occupy myself while playing, and its always awesome to interact with other characters, but its honestly kinda Zen to play a selfish character. I had a lot of guys trying to change the world in their own image, and playing a character now who is just trying to improve himself and philosophize and categorize Underdark, rarely from time to time interacting with PC's. Some days I speak with ten PC's for 2 minutes a pop, others I speak to two or three PC's for hours on end.

Its a huge gearshift from how I usually play, but its added a lot to the EFU experience for me.

May not work for you, but taking in aspects of the server you don't deal with much, and delving deep into them from a research/teaching standpoint.

A crazy Oghman seeking to chronicle Sanctuary's history. A Velsharoonite seeking lichdom. An Elf chronicling his adventures as a womanizer over the centuries he's been alive, writing books on seducing women as EFU's premiere playboy, and giving seminars to Sanctuarians on how to attract women (Be it scam or otherwise) are just a few ideas!

Honestly, I took like a year or two break!

Now, I wouldn't say it was entirely because I was burnt out, and part of me wishes I had stuck around so I didn't come into a game world where everything was the opposite of how I left it. I also had other things going on in life.

Sometimes you just need to sit back and take a short break, not even a week, maybe a few days. Look at what the server is becoming and see how you can fit in, or maybe change it. Maybe try not to much to worry if you're doing good or not with your goals and just keep on trying because eventually things will click.

I personally don't see what the problem is though. You're a good player on EfU and people tend to flock to your characters like Rats to Moldy Cheese (But VERY tasty moldy cheese). I think you've done more for the server than you give yourself credit for.

I typed up a response, but I'm going to hold it in reserve. Is the question/discussion about how to get DM attention, or is it about something else?

Howlando- It's these legends of EFU complaining about them being unable to continue there legends.

Personally- I have never made a feared, well loved lcharacter. Yet- I feel like I HAVE made impacts on the server.

That is all I really need.

I am not going to pretend I am in any position to understand Kiaring and Oro all that much. This is because I'm not a very good (EfU!) player. I know this, and I try to work on it. I don't *want* to shape the server most of the time; what causes me the most pleasure is simply playing a role and letting events shape that role. This is why I love playing underlings, henchmen, servants, and avoid any leading role like a plague; I enjoy focusing on just my role and the relationship I have with others. It pleases me the most.

Hence I can't understand the the frustration Kiaring has when he can't shape the server as he used to. But I can feel empathy in other ways - I've been trying to find a concept to finally overcome my weakness, but I just can't come up with something that not only I'd enjoy but that'd also be fun. That's because I have outlandish expectations at myself; it'd be so much easier if I could be content with playing an intricate human with realistic goals who leads and changes the server - but that just isn't my cup of tea; I seek the exotic and the odd, and not even with the goal of changing much, but rather, just being. Hence I'm a very static player and likely not a good one (in the context of EfU being focused on goals and changing the server).

So I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Kia, you might feel some frustration right now, and might have felt it for some time, but don't let it get you down! I firmly believe that an amazing player like you, and you, Oro, will find a concept they really enjoy again, and you'll certainly be able to do all your server-shaping and goal-persuing just as you did in the old days of glory. I don't pretend to know why you just don't got the "feeling" right now anymore, but I want you to know that I'm sure you'll get it back. Maybe play something else for a litte; hang out with friends, read, get some inspiration, and return with a fresh breath. A breath that infuses EFU with new life and your mark.

And just maybe when you're back your favourite little underling can help you, and see if he can't learn how to best pursue and shape from you. :)

Good luck!

Edit: I also recommend -everyone- to read RwG's post twice. This poster and player is a sage in his own right.

I've had this problem with several of my characters. I found that if I just stuck with their rocky, boring start, they would eventually form friendships and political connections and rock out.

You might also want to consider making a character that avoids violent conflict, directly at least. Extends the lifespan of your character and puts more emphasis on roleplay rather than wrestlemania.

Don't focus on doing things, but more playing a persona you like. DangerousDan [DM] and Snoteye [DM] never did anything with their characters.

I read the OP, but skipped the replies, so if it's already been said, forgive me.

I've had the same problem for a while Kia. Ever since my last big PC died (I'm too prone to letting characters die to a scripted quest when I'm feeling they are getting stagnant instead of shelving them, which is my own fault). I've had some great characters, but I'm the kind of person who prefers to be in a supporting role. Helping fuel someone elses grand ambitions, and getting to tweak those slightly through his own schemes. But I am never the big shot, the leader of a faction, or anything of the sort.

Ever since my work schedule changed to 4-midnight, I haven't been able to really find a way to click with any character of mine, and it's been holding me back from really digging into a PC. And I've been wanting to start playing EFU a lot...just seems like nothing ever clicks when I play anymore. For whatever reason

I beleive the start is always the hardest, and I am sorry last night events ended that way. It was crazy and alot of hot heads together yes. Please dont quit

I think those who suggest playing a character who isn't really a big mover and shaker in the Sanctuary community have a pretty good idea. I haven't played any legendary characters who had much of an impact on the game world, just characters who do little things here and there that some people might notice and others might not. Personally, I prefer to operate more in the background as far as shaping the server goes, and let my characters just be themselves. Trying to continually play some big, epic concept that has everyone talking seems like it would be stressful. I would suggest trying to just make a character who comes into Sanctuary exactly how most do: as a beleaguered slave with no particular ideas about how they want to shape the city. While this might be kind of an unpopular view, I think it's possible to start a successful character with no particular goals in mind, and let your interactions with others shape your own character's development.

Obviously, this can't work for everyone, because the server really does need a few people with high ambitions to keep things moving, but some of the most inspiring stories begin with characters from the lowliest origins.

Focus on camping level 2 kobolds, IMO.

Kia, its not just you. I feel like the game has become more static then it used to be as well. Maybe static isn't the right word. The world changes, but in predictable ways. For those of us who have been here since the beginning, I don't think there is much left that can surprise us anymore. Further, it becomes increasingly difficult to surprise ourselves, which is the more important part.

I'd say you, Oro, Inquis, RWG and I should get together on some massive concept, some really world changing thing, but we all know we'd end up dead, or worse, butting our massive egos for a few weeks before we get bored with trying to out due one another. Maybe what we should really do is create a bunch of old farts, who sit on rocking chairs outside and talk about how things are not how they used to be.

I don't know. If you find any answers though, send them my way.

This happens to the best of us. The only advice I can offer is to be patient, and not to expect things to happen over-night. Your awesome is hiding, you simply need to find it.

I've a theory that awesome is like surfing. It comes in waves. All you need to do is catch the wave, then somehow manage to stand up while holding on to it.

If everything is predictable, do something outrageous, something that no one would see coming. Blow up the town hall, replace Azzam with a donkey, something simply over the top. With the right amount of awesome, anything is possible.

I'm curious. If you believe the server has changed in a number of ways over the past year, why hasn't your yardstick for measuring success also changed?

There are two ways to solve your perceived problem. The first is to be more like Crosswind/Wolf_Pack and less like Kiaring. The second is to accept that the purpose of EfU is to play through some amazing character stories; just because a story announces itself with blaring horns doesn't mean it's better than a story that flies under the radar.

You quite clearly believe that you have the perceived talent, ability, and oddly enough, the responsibility to impact the server heavily with every character you play. I doubt you'll be dissuaded from the view, but I would ask you to question its validity; if you haven't been able to do this over the past year, is it really something that you should still be striving for, or should you adapt your expectations to reality, instead of continuing-and failing-to do the opposite?

EfU has changed over the past year; the fundamental changes are few, but the surface changes are many. My advice to you would be to stop worrying about trying to make your indelible and glaring mark upon the server with every character; since I am not under any illusion it will be taken, however, I'll also suggest that you try characters who are more focused on growing into a position to change the server, as opposed to characters who come out with that intention.

-SI

9lives also brings up a very valid point.

Starry makes a good point, about growing into the concept.

I would also like to mention ahem

That you are a sexy brazillian beast and that if you were to come to australia you could bunk with me. King size style

xx

Wow. Starry Ice. Nice. RWG is right on as well. I really like what you both are saying.

I felt for a long time that if I was to accomplish anything I needed to either: a) Start out in a developing plot (ironically, I've played several application-only chars immediately involved in server-changing plots who never really did anything of note), and do what you can to help out. Or: b) Have your own plan for greatness.

I have learned that even chars that I intended to throw away could grow in IG power (not XP) and influence, or at least grow in fun.

My last 2 main chars were both thrust into positions of power (Frank more than Arsden) without me having any plans to run anything. I never wanted to be in charge of the Crone, and I certainly never had any intention of being the Headmaster of the School of War. It just happened. IG things happened, and I adapted.

With Frank I really felt I was just sort of along for the ride. Like I was just lucky enough to be able to be witness to these stories that were unfolding before me. I had no great plans for the character.

On the flip side, as I've already mentioned, an application or plot-specific char is a lot of pressure (sort of). There are goals others are depending on you to help with. Which is great. You always have tangible goals to achieve, and generally tangible rewards. But, you start to feel like you're tagging along if you don't think you're pulling your weight.

As someone lucky enough to be included in several specific things, my favorite chars were those I had little to no expectations for.

So. While my 2 years on this server comprises very nearly my ENTIRE online NWN experience, I would say play around with a few ideas until one of them emerges on their own.

MexicanGunslinger, I'm going to formally ask you to "tone it down."

Pup

With Frank I really felt I was just sort of along for the ride. Like I was just lucky enough to be able to be witness to these stories that were unfolding before me. I had no great plans for the character.

By that I mean, I had no grand plans at character creation. Frank obviously grew in ambition!

Starry may raise a valid point for Starry.

Kiaring likely enjoys playing characters that make an impact. We all have our own styles. Its rather makes sense to say that "if you're style isn't working, try another", but it really hardly helps with the problem that the style you enjoy isn't working for you right now.

The server has changed. I've talked to a few DMs privately who agree with my points about this. I've spoken to a few DMs publicly who seemed to think I was off-base slightly.

So luckily, even DMs have different styles.

I know my style has been to play a character that slowly involves more and more people. I like to know my character is making an impact, I don't feel I have

the responsibility to impact the server heavily with every character you play

Much of what is being discussed here, and doesn't seem to get much valid focus is that the styles that succeed on the server are changing from what they were a year or two years ago. Nothing is wrong with that at all, as it gives other people a chance to shine.

However, the shift happened so slowly and subtlety with an influx of new DMs and the drop off of older ones, that people who enjoy a style where they can make mass impacts on the server world (which for some is the reason they play this specific world rather than some of the others out there) can't seem to find that groove again.

Some of Kiaring may be asking is how to get into the new groove since the old one is gone. I could be wrong, but I have had chats with several players who think I'm hitting the nail on the head. Others will disagree, but likely because they have a totally different style from me on a server that is, afterall, designed for many play styles.

It has very little to do with DM attention. It really isn't a problem of DM attention, at least not for me. I seem to be able to get DMs involved, interested, even, in what I'm doing. It just never pans out and mostly seems like a waste of everyone's time after it's all said and done.

Starry, you shouldn't really affirm something like that. I've been told by DMs that "I should be doing my own thing" when I joined up some gang or another. I think it's fair - players who have the time and the devotion, plus the imagination just naturally take the lead, creating their own initiatives to color the server in new and different ways. I'm not, contrary to what you may think, beating myself up over 'not making it' on EfU, I'm simply dazzled that things can go so badly out of hand so many times in a row. I assure you, the DMs, everyone else, really, I never lose sight of the fact that this is a pastime. That being said, it is one I spend quite some time on, which I do take rather seriously, so why not drop folks a line, see if there are any good ideas? I'm not sure I can make it any more obvious, but I'm not blaming anybody for what has happened, save perhaps my own poor judgment for most of these situations. This, like some people have said, constitute my 'style', and are not likely to change. I enjoy playing certain types of characters, just like everyone does. If the ones I enjoy playing always seem destined to fail somehow, I just want to know a couple of ways I might try differently in order to succeed next time.

Howland, if it's not too much to ask, I'd like to see what you had to say first. This really isn't anything about needing more DM attention - I'm probably on the higher end of the scale of getting DM attention. But how do I turn this attention into something meaningful? If you really just feel like saying "Pay attention to the PVP you're getting into", "PVP less because you suck at it" or anything like that, go for it, maybe it'll help put a spin on things for me on the IC side.

Guys with the problems:

From what I've seen, it actually just seems like you haven't been making much effort toward getting lots of tons of other players involved, like you used to.

Barrister Fawkes was the Sheriff of the Watch, and managed to include just about any and every single person on the server who had anything to say to him in his grand schemes.

Majre Nogueyra always had a group around her. Imnan Was always recruiting people for her thing.

Lockwood pissed so many people off, it was impossible for him not to be loved.

What have your characters been doing lately though, to get huge tons of people involved?

If there's anything I've learned, simply playing an interesting character with flaws and goals (to toot my own horn, absolutely shamelessly) is never enough on its own to get DMs interested. And It's actually reassuring to me to know that the DMs aren't heaping rewards on you guys just for who you are. You've still gotta work for it and get people involved to really rock out.

So try that again, maybe? There are tons of people who would love to be involved in anything you brew up, Kiaring. But what was your... what was it, library curator(?) doing to get lots of people to rock out.

I don't even know who you've been playing lately though, so I suppose there isn't a whole lot else I can say. I may even be way off base.

Awesome isn't planned, it happens.

What miss Kotenku is that what we use to do isn't seeming to work.

The very same stuff I did to get people working with Fawkes and Dungal and to a lesser extent even Mandarin just isn't working with Kalandra, Stantin, Vladimir, Hectra, or Washugao. Its not that I've put any less effort into the characters, or played them less consistently.

There are several reasons this isn't working. I've touched on a few, talked to DMs about some others, and been politely brushed aside for raising a few other points.

Some of what I'm curious about is what would work today? Things have obviously changed, I'm not looking to turn back the clock, but just curious what new things should happen. Its as if the old things that use to interest DMs just don't anymore, the new DMs here have different interests and it seems many players do too. I am curious how to catch that again.

Oroborous....Hectra scared me....so much.

OOCly, she scared me. She scared Noirin, and she scared me. She was downright scary...she terrified me. ffs, SHE WAS SCARY!

Kotenku, I've definitely tried to make impacts, involve other people. With Salman I spent an enormous amount of time pissing off the right people, getting others on my side just to die a day before the election. Then you look back and think, "wow, what a waste of time." I just haven't been able to make it work since Emanuel Lucas and then I look back and remember how easy it all seemed with Michael Collier. It's just not working. It's not like its anyone's fault, but it's not like its my own either. I know where Kia and Oro are coming from, we are trying to do the same things we used to to make a difference, the differences are just not there like they were.

This is no knock on DM's or players or the server in anyway. It's just depressing when you try and fail. Lately I have been playing characters that are taking a back seat, questing more often, not getting involved and the truth is that's not who I should be playing. Its not who Oro or Kia should be playing either. In my opinion, the server was more fun for me when these two legendary players were in leadership positions, kicking ass and taking names.

Kiaring, you use alt accounts a lot, but I am pretty sure that every single one of your PCs was killed in pvp by a faction I was in. So, I think that I have a fairly unique view of your recent string of characters. At the heart of their failure was losing in pvp. Usually right as they attempted to put actions behind words. Usually this is because they are too brazen in some way. Hubris. I do not think your methods or characters are flawed, but you just seem to suffer from character ending losses in PvP, that because you are so brazen, even involving in your ideas, you die from. Had you won any of the number of PvP encounters that killed you then I think your PCs would have a lot more recognition. This is not to say you need a ridiculous PvP build, or anything, but at some time (as you tend to get into Pvp sooner or later...) you do need a coalition of ass kickers, or Waylon, for the notoriety that has eluded you. If you want to use pvp as your way to get renown you have to actually win it.

Oroborous, I think some of your problems have to do with timezones. I have never seen your pcs ever.

Right now I am playing a high profile character. I'd swap places with you guys in a minute. Don't get me wrong, I am having a lot of fun, but it is stressful and difficult and it's easier to just chill and log on and be someone's minion. There are nights where I log in and for five hours straight new PCs wander into the Haunted Fortress and want to talk to my character. And during all this I'm worrying if the other people in my faction are having fun and not getting bored.

I'll tell you my story though, about what I've found to work for me.

Gippy and I are friends. We both made Watch PCs. We quested a lot and had some fun along the way, but it wasn't that great. There were no criminals on the server at the time. Those that were, were low level or in Lower where we couldn't go. We spent a lot of time just "patrolling" in Upper waiting for something to happen. We both found good ways for our characters to die and moved on.

We talked about ideas and talked about how the server has never had a blackguard nor much of an evil presence. At first I was going to be a sinister vizier-wizard with an evil moustache and beard, but we hit on the idea of twin noble brothers who were as much rivals as allies. It seemed like a good way to come up with a concept with someone you have fun playing with but not just be total friends like Hadley and Smalls were.

I knew it would be hard to earn the blackguard prestige class. It did help us focus our efforts and not get distracted with just questing though. From the moment we started our characters we started recruiting other characters. We developed a system for our faction that would encourage other characters through a system of promotions and also encourage them to recruit as well. Some of the recruitment was easy, with people really interested in having fun with us. With other characters, it was really hard and took a lot of effort to get them to work for us.

Since I wanted the blackguard pretige class, I was capped at 6 for about two and a half-weeks, waiting to be able to level. I had long talks with members of the dm staff about how to earn the class. Although the organization was flourishing, I knew from these talks that I needed to push the evil/fear aspect even more. This was hard in ways I don't need to post here.

I've tried hard to roleplay a very evil character and "earn" his prestige class while at the same time being courteous OOC and tasteful with FD. There have been a FDs from our side I'm not sure were good, so I'm sorry for that Kiaring. I liked Mouritach and at the time it seemed like you wouldn't mind losing her. If anyone else has not enjoyed anything to do with my character, feel free to PM with criticasm or whatever. I don't want to ruin anyone's time on this fun server and will stop if I am.

Sorry for going off topic there.

Here is my advice.

Look at the server and try to figure out where there's a niche or opportunity.

If you want to really be the center of attention, you probably do need a lot of minions. The good news is is most people on the server are smart and would prefer to be a minion rather than a leader (I know this because I do). It is often more fun to log on and know you can find your faction and they'll have something fun to do, rather than just wander around by yourself and maybe wait for someone to make a sending about a quest.

It helped to have Gippy start a concept with me. I'm not saying try to do all your recruiting OOC before you make your character, but going in with a friend can make things a lot more fun and improve your chances of success.

Have a lot of playtime.

Try to take things in stride.

I guess that's it. Be lucky?

Politeness is warring with the natural instinct to preserve my e-masculinity by responding to Oroborous' patent trolling of me.

Sadly, politeness wins.

I know; I hate this version of myself, too. :/

-SI

Charm, you can never please all of the people, all of the time. Somebody is always going to have a gripe. Don't look at the gripe and overlook the 80% who did like the way you played your character, but probably never said anything.

About the rest, I think that setting out to change the server is too ambitious, and I'd find it hard to relax and just play the game if I had a checklist of requirements and things that had to be achieved. If the trip means nothing except the means to that end, it'll be more of a chore. You will likely even rush things and get rushed into confrontations you weren't ready for, because you have the destination not the journey in mind.

Here's my two cents.

I believe that people always need to get better, or grow in their hobby, work or school... It's just human-nature.

If you scored a 75 , you're going to aim for a 80. If you get it, you're going to aim a bit higher. However, If you get a 74 or even a 75 -- You're going to be ..unhappy with your results.

It's not because a 75 is not good, but because, as human, we always want to have a feeling that we are improving (in whatever area or thing we are doing). Call that ambition.

* * *

So for people that had monstrously legendary famously and influential PCs... Which were due in part to luck (as much as we dont want to, some of the success is always due to faith or luck.. or a part beyond our control), and ourselves -- It is extremely hard to continue on that tangent and believe you are still improving... because you didnt hit the success of your past characters.

Best thing to do is acknowledge that, and just play for the small things... Play comic-relief PCs etc..

There is no recipe to get over it then just accepting that you may never get above the fame or success of some pcs (yours or not) and to be chill about it.

Competition with yourself or with others is fun! But it isnt everything, best just take a step back and look back at what is fun on the servers for you and play with that.

Mort hit the nail on the head.

-SI

I too have recently had a series of epic failures with some of my PCs who I thought had the greatest potential of any PC I've played beforehand. They have died either in spontaneous PvP or due to some really awry reason. When this happens like five or six times in a row, it becomes really crushing and you begin to look to other reasons why this might be happening. It is really easy to arrive at the conclusion that the server in some manner has changed enough that you can't recapture the glory of PCs of yore despite putting in just as much effort and RPing just was well -if not better- than you ever have.

However, there's just too much evidence against this, none of which I need to post here as examples. The server is definitely still a place which you can leave your mark and in which your characters can become eminent.

Certainly I concede that with a much larger playerbase, DM responsiveness is perhaps not as fast as it was in the early days when the playerbase was much more smaller. Beyond this though, there is no difference!

Most of what I think has already been said by people like Starry Ice and Mort above, however I would just like to point out that LUCK is a bigger factor than many seem to be attributing attention to in regard to PC failure. All if takes is one spontaneous argument, or one unlucky crit, or one this or one that, and its all over.

My advice is therefore to just stubbornly produce excellent character after excellent character. Your unlucky streak WILL come to and end at some point, and things will just sync nicely. Its only a matter of time.

If you need an example of Such a streak, I have played Allivarn Fireheart, who was I think the most famous of my PC's, then I've played Apon Earthwalker, who didn't even achieve ONE of his goals.

Then I played a series of Failing characters.

I don't expect ANY of my PC's to be successful. I just let the awesome flow. I don't believe ANY of my PC's will be feared. I just know that I can try.

To be honest, I don't plan for successful PC's, I plan to have fun.

I sometimes don't want to be successful. I have to deal with so many other people I lose track of the plots. With Allivarn For example, I had several closed door meetings I had to pay attention to. Then I forgot what was said, I missed out on several plots this way. At one point he was invited to join an organization who wished to turn Sanctuary's democracy into a monarchy with someone else at the top- a DM based organization. He considered this, and then forgot about it (mostly my fault.) The plot might of succeeded if he threw in his full support and funding. Heck, he even offered to fund a Velsharoonite's research on necromancy. Then i forgot about it.

The goal is to have fun here: Server changing good and fun, but what about you? Do you have fun holding the life of someone's character in the balance? I don't. I sure as hell don't. I enjoy it when other people pull the strings. I am renowned for my neutral characters, merely because in RL, I don't feel strongly in either direction.

As I said, I think it's the top dogs are no longer the top dogs, new players are taking over the server and running with plots that are awesome and cool. Oroborous's character Washugao- I haven't heard of him before, why? Because I haven't heard of his awesome.

Evil gets a great deal of attention on EFU, Good aligned, or neutral aligned, I believe, have to work a lot harder to gain recognition from the player community. BReena Watchever's support to get the Sanctuary Shelter gained her recognition, but she didn't rule at PvP, she wished to change the server.

Evil isn't smashing good or killing folks, true evil is controlling folks through fear in my opinion, I believe this is what it came to, the Montezzi faction has virtually controlled lower through fear, and this fear gave them this control.

End rant.

Starry Ice Politeness is warring with the natural instinct to preserve my e-masculinity by responding to Oroborous' patent trolling of me.

Sadly, politeness wins.

I know; I hate this version of myself, too. :/

-SI

I'll apologize now if you felt trolled. Not my intention at all.

Points made so far:

1) Without luck, it'll all suck:

It's weird, perhaps a bit sad, but luck does play a huge part in the game. Not just the luck of the dice - the luck of other players deciding to play characters who 'click' with your own, right at the perfect time, is, I'd say, one of the greatest factors that separate success from failure on EfU.

2) Don't try too hard:

I assure you, I truly don't! Others, though, may benefit from this advice: Trying too hard will make you lose sight of why we are here, which is to play and enjoy the game. I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a look at what you have been doing, and approaching people in a respectful way about new manners to take on EfU in order to improve things (which is what I am doing here). At the same time, despite how soul-crushing failing every single time is, sucking it up and rolling an even better character is the way to go.

3) DMs are there to help you:

Lack of commitment, time or interest do not seem to be the reason so many people can't get DMs on their side. Rather, it seems like actually TELLING them what you are up to (by means of an e-mail or application) goes a long way to help things fall into place for you and your character.

4) Pay attention to PVP:

Ironic that I should compile a point to say I've understood this, but the thing is, PVP is the best thing when you win, and the worst thing when you lose. So you really have to be 100% sure you're going into it to win. You won't always win, naturally, but at least it'll make you feel less angry/frustrated if you lose PVP you started because the other character was just better, instead of because you went into it with a hot head and no preparation.

What else is there?

Mostly I just feel pressured by all the really high level characters. Makes it difficult to play someone when you've got this level 8 warrior breathing down your neck.

We're far more impressed with people who play their characters wholly from the get-go, not when they've got a few levels under their belt.

Yes, a great deal more impressed!

Having neither posted anything here nor logged into the server for months, I'm not sure how valuable my input here will be. However, I checked the forums just to see what was kicking, saw this thread, and felt like I have a comment to make.

This is the precise reason I quit playing. I invested an incredible amount of time here and things just weren't clicking. Ever. For two whole years.

I find it ironic that the player who killed my last concept posted this.

Kuo-Toa Killer Kiaring, you use alt accounts a lot, but I am pretty sure that every single one of your PCs was killed in pvp by a faction I was in. So, I think that I have a fairly unique view of your recent string of characters. At the heart of their failure was losing in pvp. Usually right as they attempted to put actions behind words. Usually this is because they are too brazen in some way. Hubris. I do not think your methods or characters are flawed, but you just seem to suffer from character ending losses in PvP, that because you are so brazen, even involving in your ideas, you die from. Had you won any of the number of PvP encounters that killed you then I think your PCs would have a lot more recognition.

No matter how awesome your concept, regardless of how much time you invest in your (and others) characters, any other person with a better knowledge of the game engine can just come and cut you down any time they want, with any character they want, for pretty much any cause they can reasonably justify after the fact.

That pretty much nails it. For those of you who don't know, this is Morbid Dread. For whatever reason, I have been locked out of the Morbid Dread account, and I expect after posting this heresy I'll be locked out of this account, too. But this post by Kuo-Toa Killer fairly well pinpoints the reason I quit playing here.

9lives We're far more impressed with people who play their characters wholly from the get-go, not when they've got a few levels under their belt.

MadCaddies Yes, a great deal more impressed!

When I quit playing here I wrote this monstrously long TL:DR email to the DMs, but nearly all of what I said can be reduced to this. All the role-play, all the emotion, all the drama you will find on EfU is competing on a playing field that is fundamentally no different than your average PvP server.

The end result is a situation where people pour their hearts into their characters and get zilch point squat for their efforts. I shouldn't have to get a Dragon Disciple application approved or concoct some far-fetched bard / barbarian combo in order to succeed as a player. After a certain point, real life becomes more rewarding.

When you add it all up, the whole thing is a waste of time.

lol

Metro_Pack lol

EDIT: And herein the fundamental flaw is revealed. If someone is unhappy, it's funny.

I'm hoisting a beer in your honor, Metro. For all that Howland does to ensure players that he takes them and their complaints seriously, you do twice as much to undermine it.

Thank you for reminding me that not only was I wasting my time playing here, I was wasting my time by even daring to voice my true thoughts about the experience. I was worried that I might get banned before a constructive dialogue could begin, but now I just don't care.

EDIT x 2: I never got a chance to say this the last time, and I'll be damned if I miss the chance this time.

The people I played with here are the best, most creative people in the world, DMs and players alike. This whole thing doesn't add up for me, and I'm trying to sincerely say why in spite of whatever negativity I might get from DMs who don't like being criticized. With that having been said, I don't want to go out on a negative note.

I love the people here, and it was a great time while it lasted. I mean that from my heart. It may not be worth it to me to sit here in front of my computer and play this game as much as I must in order to succeed on EfU, but that does not mean that I think the people here are worthless. Far from it. I think you all are some of the best people on the planet.

I never got a chance to say that in my last post, and I want to make sure that is understood. Also, I never credited Malcer Stormwind in Ingrid Mordis' death thread, and I should have.

So long, Malcer, whoever you are.

Ok!

A single "Double Fuck Whallop" short of a 9 on the Tiralin Scale.

As probably the worst Pvper on the server, I can tell you, any, and all who ask here and now that you do not need to be good at PvP to prosper and enjoy EFU.

I've died many PvP deaths, yes, but they were all worthwhile.

The fact that I pissed off someone so much that they wanted to end me, is kind of endearing, and flattering. Particular examples of such would be my character Ghrn Hahmntk, who until his last breath, threw all the insults a 13 charisma duergar is expected to.

It doesn't matter how well you PvP, if you RP your cards right, and get into the politics and other aspects of the server, you can have others PvP for you.

Its a beautiful place, where even the most inept of us can indeed, rock the chazbah.

As a brief counter-point, I'd just like to say that not all of us are so lucky or affable in regards to our strings of PvP deaths. Not against PvP in general, but I'd just like to throw it out there that plenty of times people want to end your character without really thinking it through all the way. It can grind on a person's nerves after a while.

I'm Malcer >_< Thanks. Ingrid was cool, but lame PVP deaths are always going to happen. My first and only PVP death consisted of True Strike potion/KD spamming. Yea.

This has turned into a "What's lame" discussion.

Can we all agree as the server changes, the Situation in which you can be awesome does as well?

Can we all agree as the server changes, the Situation in which you can be awesome does as well?

Agreed! :wink:

Metro_Pack lol

It doesn't matter how well you PvP, if you RP your cards right, and get into the politics and other aspects of the server, you can have others PvP for you.

I will have to agree with RwG at this, I have only played two characters during my entire time on this server who have been involved in PvP at all. One of them died in a PvP battle which was so unevenly pitched I might aswell have charged a troll tribe alone without armour.

Thing is, PvP can usually be avoided unless you want it to happen. You simply need to keep your characters behaviour in the way it would be considering his/her abilities. After all, a lvl 4 wizard or bard probably would not pick fights with the group of lvl 7+ frontliners.

It all comes down to making sure that you OOC'ly understand all the IC conditions and reasons why your character would be in danger. Understanding your opponents side of the story is crucial to avoid the OOC anger or disappointment that most PvP deaths lead to. I have seen many instances where a certain character is incredibly unevenly pitched in a scenario where IC tension is large enough to provoke a PvP fight... This IC tension doesn't have to lead to PvP, as your character -probably- would not anger this group.

When this situation leads to a PvP, and occasionally even a death, the one who plays the character often gets angry or disappointed OOC'ly, feeling that it was unfair or a needless action, when it was all along very easy to avoid the whole PvP thing IC

/Endrant

I probably didn't manage to get my point out in the long section, so I'll try to simplify it... If you are so attached to a character, or simply feeling that your character is a strong RP build but a weak PvP one, pursuing PvP generally isn't a good idea. Even your low str/dex/con and high cha/int/wis character knows that he would stand no chance to that rippling mountain of muscle should it come down to a brawl.

Thing is, PvP can usually be avoided unless you want it to happen. You simply need to keep your characters behaviour in the way it would be considering his/her abilities. After all, a lvl 4 wizard or bard probably would not pick fights with the group of lvl 7+ frontliners.

A nice post, but I'm going to disagree one point there. While I think you're right in that it's sometimes not smart for a lone caster to rile up a bunch of warriors, there are few things the DM team loathes more than wallflowers who, upon gaining their class sweet-spot, suddenly get themselves an attitude.

Kia, I've been out a bit too, but I wuv ya enough to offer this: We all slump out sometimes. I've never had enough reliable freetime to be a huge impact PC, but I've managed to become part of impact stuff. I too slumped out here and there, or found I really hated a concept I made. Hell, the worst trap of 'em all is the quest-mill. Scripted quests become nearly second nature and only REALLY bad luck can stop you there. What players like you crave is not the PvP win, nor the DM loot, nor the XP...it's to be pushed to the very limits of your abilities by the DMs and the players you face off against.

I have done crazy things all in the name of that pushed to the top of your game high. I have beaten and have been bested...lived, died and even walked away. Find the path back to your limit and you'll find Kia again.

failing that, try something new. A few guys like Oro, Sherry, Metro and even Howland once suggested that due to my sporadic, sometimes limited time, that I try a mastermind character (more forum work, lesser IG time). I built on the idea and would like to do a loner, or maybe a solitary druid, rogue or maybe a bounty hunter. In effect, I'm tailoring the character to the time I have available because I miss you guys, and I love EFU a lot.

See you all soon!

Lastly, nice input guys...I know egos may butt here from time to time, but it really makes me smile to see player who normally but heads all coming together to help Kia out. You guys are the best!