Looking to make a video about City of Rings - got questions

[Larpushka]

Hi everyone,
I played here about 10-15 years ago (*feels old*) when it was called "Escape from the Underdark".  What I particularly liked about EfU philosophy is that they're willing to make massive overhauls to the server based on game events and not stay stagnant. Unfortunately I never got to be a part of a main event that changes the landscape of the server so I didn't get to experience what it's really like. The reason I'm exploring it now so many years later is because I have a small youtube channel (Larpushka) where I explore immersive escapism and I have a section dedicated to hardcore RP communities.  EfU, or rather City of Rings, has been on my list for a while and in fact I already made a video about it but I eventually removed it since I didn't feel it was a detailed enough of an analysis. I also want to use City of Rings as an prime example of what NWN RP is like. Anyway, certainly servers that are willing to stay dynamic and change based on events and players action are a rare gem so I've been considering for a while redoing this video. With that said I want to understand 2 things:

1)  Do players action change the landscape of the server or are these decisions pre-determined and the players just play it out?  If it is not pre-determined, I would love to hear stories about it.
2) Do players get to play in key roles that affect serverwide events, like mayor/militia captain?

I will also explore this new PW with a new character of course, I gotta see and feel it for myself again :)  but if anyone has stories about what makes EfU special and immersive please pile on. 


-Larpushka

[Richørd]

I could list long and exhausting reasons for why I'd answer each of your questions the way I would. Instead let me just tell you a quick story.


Quite recently a war brewed within the City of Rings.
A massive army, led by one Lord Freward, laid siege to the 99th Ring, one could call it the main hub of this server. This army was known as the Copper Torc (Torcs for short).
Ticker was faced with total annihilation of their rights and freedoms at the hands of the locust swarm that the Torc resembled, so the Guildmasters (big name NPCs) of the Square and several key figures (all of which who were players) came up with several solutions to survive the war. One of which was that the people of Ticker Square would have to gather a vast sum of groats (name of the currency in the game) and hire a mercenary company from a city deeper within the City of Rings. This mercenary company would have been the main defense against the Torc as no matter how elite any forces from Ticker Square were, they could have never held against the massive Torc armies forever.
On the day of the decisive battle a chain of intrigue and backstabbing unfolded the likes of which Ticker Square has never seen before.
Not only did a small subsection of players eradicate the leftovers from a whole other NPC faction I have not mentioned yet by blowing them up, they assassinated one of the Square's Guildmasters, stole the contract of the massive mercenary force that was supposed to save the Square and delivered the contract straight to Lord Freward's hands, the leader of the Torc. Effectively making him the holder of the contract and enabling him to tell the entirety of the hired mercenary force to back off and not participate in the fights.
What followed was the immediate surrender of Ticker Square as they've just lost most of their defenders, followed by the sacking of the Square.
In the days after the Square has seen plunder and pillaging of a magnitude which can still be felt today.

TL;DR :
1) Player actions change the landscape of the server.
2) Yes, my character during the time period mentioned in the story above was the captain of Ticker Square's biggest local mercenary force, the Sons of Conquest.

[Aethereal]

Hello and welcome back Larpushka,

I recently came upon your mini-documentary 'Online role-playing mini-documentary - History and subculture explained' and as a fellow scholar found it to be a wonderful and remarkably comprehensive yet bite-sized and entertaining exploration of the subculture and its history. Your work seems to be a great anthropological deep-dive into online roleplaying games and the communities that form around them and I confess I learned a few things especially about the communities outside my own periphery. I commend you on your efforts and look forward to seeing the results of your latest investigations.

On to answering your question, as someone who has played on EFU for just about a decade now:

1) Do players action change the landscape of the server or are these decisions pre-determined and the players just play it out?  If it is not pre-determined, I would love to hear stories about it.

The answer to this question is that it is a bit of both in the sense that the game world itself, the setting, exists with a set of possibilities built into it by the developers. I like to use the example of the second chapter of the setting, Escaped from the Underdark: Archipelago (EFU:A), in which the greatest changes were brought on as a direct result of player character efforts. Specifically, 'H'bala the Maiden' a deranged and ancient lichess (with storied lore built into the server to be discovered in hard to reach and very dangerous archaeological locations or bits and pieces held by various factions in the game world) was released from her prison-tower by a group of very powerful and perhaps well-meaning druids and wildlings (all palyers) who were actually planning to destroy her once and for all, or so they thought. Instead, their actions which came about as a result of several years of player characters searching for keystones to her tower - all of which were organically found in the gameworld - culminated in the transition of the chapter from EFU:A to Escape from Undeath: Mistlocke (EFU:M), the third chapter of the server where H'Bala the Maiden desecrated the land into a state of undeath in accord with her own designs. Notice though that H'bala existed in the game world already - in that way, it may be fair to say that she existed as a pre-determined possible plot the setting would progress - though I think it was possibly one of a few ways the setting could have evolved as a result of player character actions as envisioned by the DM team.

In short the answer is absolutely yes, that player actions and decisions do change the landscape of the server going so far as to change the very gameworld permanently.

I can also provide a more direct example in which I was involved in the current setting (EFU: City of Rings) where my character's actions changed a place in the gameworld known as the 'Wizard Warrens' from a location without any infrastructure to a place with an inn, Doorkeeper's outpost, and explorable towers and areas of its own, as well as what is now a storied history that has been created over the course of one and a half years. This arose purely from my character's drive to establish a Wizard tower for his faction and himself and the receptiveness of the DMs involved (credit where credit is due, DM Abala) in seeing this dream made a reality. It can be said that this particular setting of EFU is very receptive to such player-driven changes by design.

2) Do players get to play in key roles that affect serverwide events, like mayor/militia captain?

Richord also answered this question, and the answer is indeed yes. Some of the noteworthy roles that exist in the setting include the Royal Inquisitor, Royal Court Wizard, as well as the rank of gentry such as a Knight or even the status of landed nobility in very rare instances, and formerly such roles as Guildmaster of Ticker Square (obtained by a player in the past before the server dynamic changed), all of whom wield a degree of power and influence over the political landscape of the setting.

From my own observations though, this setting is less about key roles than it is about a player character's ability to sway their fellows and play the games of intrigue and politics within the infrastructure of the Council of Peers - a gathering of the retainers (player characters) of the five ruling noble families who pass motions and make decisions that can change the political and social climate of the server, especially through major events such as the Grand Tourney of Ring 99 where a symbol of power known as the Banner of the Peers may be won granting nominal rulership of Ring 99 (the main hub and settlement of the setting) to the winning faction. That and dedication to an ideal. Player characters have seen to the apotheosis of minor divinities through their actions (and sacrifice) for example, and it is said that reaching the centre of the City of Rings through an intense and long-term journey known as 'Ringrunning' - basically overcoming various challenges mechanical, logical, and occasionally testing both a player and character's willpower all built into the environment of the world - a player character may make a wish of the King, one that may indeed change the server (?)

I think all of this makes EFU a champion of player agency as far as persistent worlds go, though I won't say anything is easy in EFU (besides dying) but nothing worth doing ever is, as they say.

If you have more questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I also encourage my fellow players to support this inquiry by adding their own anecdotes and stories.

[SunrypeSlim]

The first time I logged into EfU as a sun elf fighter, I entered a bar and wondered out loud about a painting. The server owner saw this and improvised an adventure for those in the area where we visited a painter's home to investigate his disappearance.

Major events on EfU are prompted either by DMs or Players. Applications, preludes, and paired concepts have more initial impetus, but their success is dependent on follow-through and interest from players.

Importantly: Anyone can hit it big in terms of loot, levels, importance, influence, or coolness due to chance or good roleplaying.

It is a poorly-understood balance of improvisation and planning. Because of EfU's commitment to atmosphere, many mechanics and details are obfuscated by a strict Find Out In Game policy.

I'm not entirely satisfied with that because, in practice, it often leads to plans and ideas falling through due to miscommunication. However, the results over the years speak for themselves. No matter where DMs set the bar, inevitably this player base will surpass it.

It's not malice or ignorance that leads to miscommunication. Rather, people on EfU are often too polite to tell each other what to do or be assertive. It's a lot easier to make passive aggressive jokes and comments on Discord. The same arguments happen over and over again pointlessly out of habit and tradition.

It's 50/50 College frat boys and diehard Gygaxians, so the fact that it hasn't imploded from all that ego should tell you that fundamentally, EfU is worth the hassle.

[Howlando]

Happy to help if I can. Feel free to message me on Discord (even if I'm invisible) and I can answer questions coming from the perspective of the founder of this particular project.

[Howlando]

Here are some initial thoughts.

EFU is a complex beast, but it's fair to say that there is considerable emphasis placed on the importance of player agency while still allowing for the importance of plots and meta plots that are directed and guided by active DMs.

For the day to day, players impact the game world primarily in how they interact with each other - joining factions, winning contests, pushing events, scheming against each other, engaging in intrigue, and combat / murder (including permanent death) are all part of the regular daily experience of EFU.

Larger "meta plots" necessarily require substantial involvement from DMs with the ability to fully enact meaningful change in the world and make sure these changes are appropriately reflected in the toolset [We are on version  1965 of chapter 5 at the moment, each chapter has a few thousand version/module updates. A single module update can represent anything from a 5 minute change to dozens of hours of work].

Metaplots vary in size from simply being a story based around a particular NPC to hugely complex stories that unfold over the course of years.

One reason we've structured the City of Rings (chapter 5) in the manner that we have is that, while it is still part of the same EFU universe (under somewhat mysterious experiences), it takes place in a different time and place so it's unnecessary to know the staggering complexities of a dozen years of intense plot development from previous chapters that some of our veterans have mastered.

Typically each chapter, at a minimum, involved several years of plot development that tended to culminate in the primary settlement's destruction and the necessity for the story to move somewhere new.

As an example of a medium/large-sized plot, here are some plot notes drawn from an internal DM thread. I think this will give a taste about what kind of stories EFU has developed and how we have often tried to avoid simply railroading a result (although, some plots do have pre-determined endings).

Anyway, this is a single post in a very old thread from 2015 -

[hide="Old Post]]As we've all been discussing in IRC, it's time to move the status of the server forward and reach a new equilibrium. Although I think in general our meat & potatoes plots should be of a smaller scale and less focused on the Big Baddies, the present situation of our setting is no longer tenable: it is clear that the Dread Empire is well aware of Sanctuary's existence, and - regardless of whatever may be happening behind the scenes in terms of Illithid scheming against each other - it seems probable that they would make some kind of effort to investigate and potentially eradicate a locale that has historically been so significant and is located so close to an important Elder Brain.

In essence I propose that we come up with a dozen or so possible futures for Sanctuary and the next stage of EFU:R and allow player actions to determine which one(s) come to pass. I believe we should make it clear to players that the setting is going to change in some radical way, that the actions of their characters will determine the direction that this goes, and that we are fully prepared to reflect the consequences of failure.

In this post I am listing some possible futures for EFU that I think would make sense, mesh decently well with what's happened before, and that I think I would be able to (with some help) do the necessary toolset work for. The absence of any "generic good" possibility is deliberately absent - there should be no no holy relic that can save everything, and good aligned characters must choose among grey or work to merely postpone annihilation. I welcome suggestions and comments for refinement.

When we do decide on which possible futures we're comfortable with, I think we should then separately discuss the mechanics of the plot that might lead to it and also how it will work for players to accomplish the objective. But for now as a start let's just figure out in which potential direction(s) the server might go.

Option 1: SLIME VICTORY
By building up the Cult of Ghaunadaur in the Sewers/Lower Sanctuary and by establishing contact with Temrariel the Slime Lich and awakening the Elder Slime Y'thhx, the Dark Lake becomes a haven of slimes. Perhaps Lower Sanctuary and the Sewers are partially flooded which force a flood of refugees to populate the Illusion as our new slums with citizenship/the ring no longer being about hiding from the Dread but rather a way to divide the fortunate from the teeming masses.

The Elder Slime and Temrariel strike against Traensyr and slime it to oblivion, Ysinode is thus cut off from the surface and made potentially vulnerable to assault or besiegement.

Option 2: Rot Victory
I am intrigued by the possibility of reversing the repair of the Machine and enabling the rotting of the Machine. The Spellguard's capabilties would be greatly reduced, perhaps the Illusion would fail altogether, but with such a grand success Moander might favor the Rot Cultists with access to a new kind of aberration-specific (or not) disease that would cripple or cause major problems for Ysinode.

OPTION 3: Nature Victory
I think there should be a possibility for the Stewards to harness one or more powerful elemental forces to secure some partial victories against Ysinode. Perhaps the water level of the Dark Lake could be significantly raised (flooding Lower Sanctuary; causing similar effects as the slime victory above with refugees forced to populate the illusion and/or major mechanical problems in the Machine). Perhaps huge earthquakes can seal off sections of the caverns. Perhaps a volcano can be induced to erupt, turning large sections of our Middledark into a wasteland.

Option 4: Ibrandulite Victory
With such a result I would imagine that much of the Machinery of Upper would fail, a deeper darkness and gloom would descend over Dunwarren, and the caves and tunnels of the Underdark would collapse and become far more maze-like. Another possibility would be to involve Dendar or Shar nihilism somehow.

Option 5: Undeath Victory
The key to this would be the animation of the bones of Etorix and sending it, along with perhaps a large undead army, to assault and perhaps even besiege Ysinode. There is a certain ironic dramatic appeal for Etorix striking revenge against first Traensyr and then Ysinode. Besieging or directly assaulting Ysinode with an army of the undead could be quite fun.

Option 6: Society Crystal Victory
This one I'm unsure about. SC mentioned the idea of the Crystal and the Mythallar merging together, but personally I feel as if thematically the Crystal / The Machine are very different sorts of things and wouldn't really work together. Perhaps taking the Mythallar would deprive the Machine of much of its Power?

Option 7: Machine Victory
This one I'm also unsure about, but there's plenty of potential with extreme weaponization of the Machine. Stronger animatrons, explosives, powerful illusions, earthquake devices... etc.

Option 8: The Host/Withering/H'bala
Although I think this one would be unlikely, I'd like there the possibility to exist for PCs to free/rescue H'bala and be able to use the Withering to curse Ysinode.

Option 9: Appetite Victory
We have a big monster that could easily be released and would play havoc with our setting. In addition to probably smashing up much of Sanctuary, the Appetite if freed might turn back all the Dunwarren Grey Rats into ratty, lunatic hunched svirfneblin. An army of the undead, Chosen, rat-svirf, and beholder-things could likely destroy Ysinode altogether (?).

Option 10: Age of Blood & Steel
Perhaps combined with other results, the Red Directorate could skillfully position Sanctuary into the leadership position of a motley alliance of Dark Lake powers and take out Traensyr and work to bottle up Ysinode in the Lowerdark.

Option 11: The Exile Collective Victory
Not sure how this would work exactly, but by being manipulated by Intryzz and/or the Exile Collective, PCs could work to bottle up Ysinode somehow. Maybe the Xenians could produce sufficient spume to seal off all of Ysinode in spum as SC once idly speculated about?

Option 12: Celestial/Divine Victory
Some kind of renegade and embittered Archangel who’s God has died is now totally despondent about the hopes of defeating Dendar/The Illithid/Rising tides of Demons and decides to enact some prophesised final protocol calling for a final reckoning (massive smiting of the Dark Lake area).  The ultra-religious/smarmy good guys are sucked up to heaven and the “unworthy”, aberrant and humanoid alike are obliterated.  ‘Goodly’ faiths, cults and lone fanatics encouraged through dreams/visions to assist the rogue angels in setting these events in motion.

Option 13: Failure
If nothing succeeds, and if characters simply fail, then I am entirely comfortable with having Sanctuary destroyed, its NPC population largely enthralled, an end to most factions, and simply have PCs move from one hidden spot to another while portraying desperate survivalists or rag-tag guerilla fighters.

I would also add that in some cases it would be possible/desirable for multiple kinds of victories, but in general the victory of one theme would be at the expense of the others. i.e. if Machine wins, nature/rot/slime loses - if Slime wins, the Host fails, etc. and vice versa.
[/hide]

Generally from experience I find that when we want to roll out a plot with a player determined outcome, it is best to begin with a bunch of different possibilities and simply allow player/character effort to push for one option or another. Typically, the ultimate result will not precisely reflect what is planned - it rarely does. Veteran players will recognize some of what was suggested in the thread coming to pass in some form or another, but definitely not in the same way.

So I think it fair to say that, in terms of the story of EFU, it is a cooperative dance between players and DMs. For me, that is one reason why it is such an interesting project.

[LaughingAlong]

1)  Do players action change the landscape of the server or are these decisions pre-determined and the players just play it out?  If it is not pre-determined, I would love to hear stories about it.

I think one of the absolute best examples of this I can ever recall is the Crown of the Isles in chapter 3. The -entire- time, it was just buried in a grave that anyone, as early on as the beginning, or as far as the end could have dug up which set into motion a tumultuous and huge series of events (The receding of the protective mists, the mad king owain) which in my opinion culminated massively in the downfall of mistlocke as a settlement (think everyone can agree losing the mists was basically the beginning of the end for mistlocke). This crown on top of being so.. simply placed, could have just as easily likely never been found, and going from that, who would have been given the crown, on top of who found it could have impacted all kinds of numbers of things.. I mean, imagine if a greedy necromancer had found it and just put it on? What would have happened? EfU is amazing like that.

[SamB123]

I still consider myself a fairly new player, as I started on EFU in May. That said, here's some things I've seen so far. I will state that there's a lot more player agency in EFU than there is on other servers on which I played.

1)  Do players action change the landscape of the server

Yes, they absolutely do. A recent example:
There used to be a DM created faction in Ticker Square called the Weavers. (When you think of Ticker Square, think cutthroat merchants, sometimes literally killing each other in-game to gain advantage.) Several player actions caused it to be that the Weavers were burnt down and deprecated as a faction.
A) One of the Weavers and a few of the Velstrans (House Velstra is one of the Noble Houses of the Peerage Ward) decided to murder the champion of the Nothing. (The Nothing is best figured out in-game, but think shadowy evil force.) Now, during the recent Tournament for the King's Banner (holder of the banner rules the Peerage Ward until the next Tournament), the rule was that you cannot murder champions, that they should only be killed in duels by other champions.

You can read about that in our Discord, starting here:
https://discordapp.com/channels/422865590814769163/422870148286906369/755288988004122625


This led to other characters deciding to take advantage. An up and coming Ticker guild called the Union, which House Orza had "sponsored" (meaning, a few Orzan PCs gave them support, NOT that Lord Grigori Orza sponsored them), decided to burn down the Weavers' building in retribution. You can read about that in Discord also, starting here:
https://discordapp.com/channels/422865590814769163/422870148286906369/755298326336897044

Finally, Walda Webber, the elderly guildmaster of the Weavers, was killed by one of the members of the mob:
https://discordapp.com/channels/422865590814769163/422870148286906369/755309403225325648


As a result of all of this, the Weavers were officially dissolved as a faction, and any Weaver characters were absorbed into House Velstra if they wished:
https://www.efupw.com/forums/index.php?topic=690985.msg727703#msg727703 || https://www.efupw.com/forums/index.php?topic=697973.msg722285#msg722285 (See the "Deceased" spoiler for Walda Webber.)


There are many, many other examples, I am sure.