Cheaper, commoner ESP and Amplify pots

[Daemonic Daz]

standing next to whispering people, the prime military function

also:

AMPLIFY POTIONS AT 50 GOLD!



why does it need to get any more common than this?

QFT

[Letsplayforfun]

I don't like the idea of stealth being 'partially magical', but it's not my decision. But: if it is 'partially magical', at least make spells of seeing, true seing and the like give some bonus to spot/listen.

As for the OP, amply pots are common enough not to spoil every sneak's attempt at doing something, but to be able to spot them when you decide you want to.

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

There are already spells that do that and the items and potions are quite common already. Seeing invisible people doesn't mean you can see someone in tune with the shadows or however you want to describe the ability.

[athousandyearsofpain]

Lets give everyone a pet-dragon too, shall we?
Seriously. Mechanics. If you don't understand them don't make a suggestion which concerns mechanics

This is how it works.
Player detects stealth: 5 times per second
Player rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds
NPC detects stealth: 4 seconds
NPC rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds

As you can see here quite clearly, a roll to detect stealth is made 5 times per second, I didn't believe it when I read it, I thought it was like 3 times/round. This means the detection very much favors the one trying to detect, which means even with half the amount of detection as the other has stealth you have a very good chance of spotting them during the first two seconds he walks past you.
And this suggestion is about making potions of Amplify (+20 listen) and potion of ESP (+10 spot, +10 listen).
Seriously, grow up.

[Egon the Monkey]

Interesting to know, I thought it was 1 detect check a round. That would make ESP pretty damn good. No need to get on your high-horse, nobody knows everything and the point of a thread like this is you can bring up info you think someone else missed.  In fact, it was changed to add +15 not 10 here, so it's better than you even thought. Seriously, don't be rude.

Anyway, as I said, I changed my mind on the idea as it'd stack so well with detect-rigged PCs it'd be crazy.

EDIT: Where have you got that 5 times a second figure from Akke? i only see it as 1 check a round wherever I look.

[Cerberus]

There are skills, feats, special abilities and spells...
 
Hide is a skill and IMO should be RP'd as such. It is not a spell like ability and should not be able to be used like hide in plain sight, which is a supernatural ability usable only by very gifted people like shadowdancers.
 
And in an empty 30x30 room I challenge the best snipers and ninja of the world to untie my shoes without me noticing. Slit my throat, maybe, but I would notice them as the blood started to spill. Big dif between assassination and stealth. When my thraot is slit I notice them and die, when they open the chest I notice them and DONT die. See the diference?

[Talir]

Howland's response to a thread back when stealth was discussed


Also, I think it's fine with the potions as they are now. If you want to find these guys, buy the potions and invest skill and gear. It's not impossible.

[Howlando]

I do not understand why the idea of stealth being semi magical is contoversial when to get high stealth requires magical items and spells that do not exist in the real world.

An equivalent to a kitted out ranger with camo and gear up would be like the Predator alien or something.

And theres my comment for the month.

[Cerberus]

I think the point the original poster was trying to make (though I may be wrong) is that although, yes a +10 cloak of elvenkind may make you look like a rock or sack of potatoes and conceal a person, when that rock or sack of potatoes started rummaging through chests it would be at least a little suspicious.

[Mort]

This is unwanted and simple mathematics will explain why...

Listen Potion (+20 listen) + ESP (+15spot/+15listen or is it +10/+10?) provides + 35 listen / +15 spot.

This means that for 6 rounds or so, a guy with 0 spot/0 listen can detect ANYONE with below 35 move silent INSTANTLY and can detect people with up to 55 move silent, 30% of the time. This is even worst if the listener doesn't move giving him an extra +5 to detection and the stealther who notice the potions starts moving giving him a -5 to hide/move silent.

35 move silent is extremely rare to have. It usually requires the person to invest skill points, feat, stats, and shift your gear toward maximizing that only to be infective.

It can be countered relatively easily by anyone with 0 investment in skills, stats, feat and 0 gear.

Stealth is a good skill but it does have MANY counters. These counters can't be too common.

Similarly about the thing about the rock being suspicious as it moves, stealth encompasses a vast array of skills that use the environment to mask movement, distractions, timing, patience are all represented in stealth which is simplified in NWN as transparence... but dont be fooled. Same thing with Detect, detect encompasses a vast array of skills to search the environment.

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

Well said Mort.

[Cerberus]

Ok, part of my debate is based on NwN game mechanics vs table-top pnP role-playing. In PnP the spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures that are hiding or hidden and secret doors. Typically, a spot check is opposed by the hide check of the creature trying not to be seen, (I'm not debating the math). Any time a hidden character makes what would be considered a move action it would almost always warrent a reroll of spot checks for any PC or NPC in line of sight or hearing distance to the move action. Manipulating items is generally considered a move action and includes things such as retrieving or putting away stored item, picking up and item, moving a heavy object, opening doors, etc.. A character that uses a move action to activaly try to spot a hidden target gets an automatic reroll and probably modifying bonuses to that roll based on his action.
 
NwN game mechanics does NOT allow for this type of recheck or reroll, thus forcing the suspicious PC to have to use a hard earned or pricy spell, item or potion to make up for the obvious move action of the PC in stealth mode. Not to mention that once the stealthy PC sees the searching PC hop into drinking a potion stance or casting a spell, he beats feet out of there and is out of range by the time the 'spotting' magic takes effect. IMO this makes spotting magics a bit expensive or a why bother to attempt to use (except in combat situations).
 
Granted, for the most part NwN game mechanics cant be helped, so as I said in the first post I made in this thread...

Hide is a skill and IMO should be RP'd as such.

[derfo]

sure ok