Modify the Water Elemental Perk

[12 Hatch]

Currently, the water elemental perk's ability has no saving throw, and takes effect even if all of the elemental damage is blocked by elemental resistance.  Meaning, no matter how high the saves, and even if you have protection from elements up, a ray of frost is an unavoidable several second stumbly-wumbly state where you move very, very slowly.

So, I suggest one or both of two things:

First, that there be some kind of saving throw the victim of this attack can make, given the immense power of slowing someone to an absolute crawl with a cantrip.

Second, that this effect not occur if all of the damage is resisted from elemental shielding.

The implementation of both of these in tandem may be a good idea!

Thoughts?

[OldPortOutcast]

Agreed on this. The problem would complicate even more with icestorm becoming an aoe snare death trap.

My suggestion would be to add a rather high fortitude save as compensation.

Ray of Frost DC 15 fortitude save
Ice Storm DC 20 fortitude save
Cone of Cold DC 25 fortitude save

Or perhaps even higher than that.

[Equinox]

While we're at it why not add saving throws to all the other special effects? save on the combust effect, on the lightning effect, a save to stop the ac drop on the acid effect?

They are all equally as strong as each other in different situations.

It seems like a lot of work for little gain.

[12 Hatch]

One guy firing off cantrips can keep you permanently at a crawl.  I'd say that's far more powerful than a little extra fire or electric damage, or an AC reduction.  It's heavily encumbered speed, about!

[Equinox]

One wizard with ball lightning and the electrical perk can rape you outright, one sorc spammign fire perk empowered combusts can floor a guy in a round or two. an acid focused wizard who can take a away a ton of ac from anyone they choose at any given time. All situational, all powerful. slowing down one orc when a horde is chasing you isnt going to do much. But electrical perk rapes the whole group.

As said before, it sound slike a lot of work for very little (if any) gain.

[Capricious]

Well, I won't disagree this is a bit powerful for a cantrip. However I don't know that it's a great idea to nerf the perk totally when it comes to the higher level spells, since the slowing effect is all it does. If a save is added it should be very high, don't forget those AoE spells can catch allies too, so their use in some situations is often limited.

But Equinox is right, I've seen the other perks tear people apart. There's less cold spells than fire, electric, or acid spells, and other than Ray of Frost they're all higher level than the others as well. This is probably why you see the other perks in effect far more often than the water perk.

[Udenbur]

How long does the slow effect even last for?

[12 Hatch]

Ah, but those things have counters.  Combust can be countered with elemental resistance, for example!  And many evocation spells can be dodged outright.  For Ray of Frost to become a massive PVP powerhouse of a spell with no actual counter, well... that's probably not how the perk was intended to work!

I'm just proposing that -some- kind of counter becomes available!

It is one thing to have extra damage piled on, or even your AC reduced substantially, but it's quite another to be permanently slowed to a crawl because a mage has ray of frost and the perk.  There is a reason the spell "Slow" has a saving throw!

[Equinox]

Theres a nifty little spell called blur that blocks all spells lower than lvl 1....

[Nihm]

This does sound overpowered - there is no way a cantrip should ever become a no-save slow.
 
Freedom of Movement should prevent this as should blur - but who cares? Not everyone has endless potions, nor should they have to have them in order to protect themselves against a cantrip.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

There are only two spells which are feasibly available to most people taking the water perk-

Ice ray, and ice dagger.

Ice storm only if you hit level 7, or 8 if you are a sorcerer.

The Ice dagger already has a save attached to it. The Slow effect lasts for only 1-3 rounds, enough time to floor someone, but also enough time to counter it with a haste, a FoM, or a displacement.

[Lenthis]

.... Blur.. EVERONE has it honestly and if you dont get it. Ghostly visage is the most used spell and the easiest to come by, If you have it on your not slowed easy as that.
 
I am the reason hes making this post honestly xD Beacuse when we were getting mauled to death I slowed him with a slow that lasts about 1 round.. the slow for an ICe ray lasts only 1 round.. So its not over powered beacuse with everyone who saw it we got pummeled into dust, At best a mage can keep throwing the rays at you. But why would he? When he can use more powerfull spells. That was all I had left and If I had something better I would have thrown it.
 
The effect is the only + really to the elemental perk besides the flame weapon to Ice weapon. As the saves are often not used, and Its really the only perk to my doctor the cryo mage.
 
I think they shouldnt have saves as its a slight augmentation
To the spell to show you power behind it, if you made a save every fighter and his grandmother would make it which would be annoying and rediculous.. Espec when the instant fail on a one is no longer valid on saves.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

And lets be honest, how many people take the water perk when compared to say, the air perk, fire perk? Or even the earth perk...

[12 Hatch]

I simply think protection from elements ought to protect you from the freezing effect.  If the spell does 0 damage, there ought not be such a powerful effect.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

I simply think protection from elements ought to protect you from the freezing effect.  If the spell does 0 damage, there ought not be such a powerful effect.

I agree there.