Modify the Water Elemental Perk

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

12 Hatch is bringing up a point Lenthis, he isn't complaining about the effect he won PvP, and could of won still regardless of what you did or I tried. He is merely expressing his concern over the possibility of instant no-save spell which slows a person down to the point of immobility.

It's incredibly powerful.

[Lenthis]

Keep in mind, then ray of frost would have to be something like 25% dagger 35% Storm 60% cone of cold 75%
I think its fair as the spells progress to levels only the dedicated could reach its power grows greatly.

[12 Hatch]

I agree!  It makes complete sense that the high level cold spells have devastating effects.  A progression like the one you listed would be nifty.

[putrid_plum]

there are so few cold spells, i think the whole point of the perk was to make it so they are useful instead of every mage using fire and lightning like it has mostly always been

[Divine Intervention]

Basically my quick summary:

1.  There's very few cold spells are aside from the cantrip and ice storm they are rarely used.

2.  Slowing someone isn't that much more powerful than making their AC so low you can hit them to the floor.

3.  The only AoE cold spells come at 4th+

4.  No other elemental perk has a save.

5.  Water is probably chosen least out of them anyway (from what I've seen)

[Relinquish]

There are saves for fire/electric. Everytime you cast an aoe lightning spell your log gets filled up with a hundred reflex saves.

[Drakill Tannan]

Reliquish is right.
12Hatch (as much as his avatar creeps me out) is right too.

Keep it as it is, just add a save. Make it something like 11 + (spell level)x2

[DollarPhil]

The reason this perk is good is that not having a save makes it a kick in the balls to saves-built or evasion Pcs that can normally screw up a mage, as it lets you get out the way. A save would defeat the object. Ray of frost is blocked by blur, as is Ice Dagger. No change needed, it's perfectly fair. And generally counterable. Water spells other than icestorm are all sub par. Shorter ranger, higher level for the same effect, one target rather than AOE...
Potion chugging should not be able to solve everything either.

[Buns in the Oven]

Blur is a very commonplace potion, as well.

[SkillFocuspwn]

I would say a save is definitely important; yes, okay, a spell can protect it, but all you need is a single dispel and a Wizard/Sorc with this effectively has a no-save Knockdown / Tanglefoot to screw over anybody trying to run away; fixable yes but I'm pretty sure that's crazy op for a cantrip.

[Udenbur]

Remove all elemental perks from Cantrips imo; stacking -10 AC or something on boss fights or a guaranteed, unresistable slow effect in PvP are both a bit of a downer.

[DollarPhil]

O_0
One major bonus of the perks is they makes cantrips useful and flavourful. They are easily blocked in PVP and frankly participartion by mages in fighting should be encouraged. Dispel should be powerful in combos. These perks do that by allowing a "ranged Taunt", or a slow to save someone, or minor AoE off cantrips. They give PCs with the perk a way to be consistently useful ins a PVP with careful dispellin too, not just "blamgank".

Slow is also much less dangerous than KD or entangling. It reduces speed, but it doesn't reduce AC, doesn't apply spellfailure, doesn't reduce DEX and doesn't immobilise the PC and prevent them taking actions.