Scrying - Change Save Functionality

[12 Hatch]

First of all, the scrying system is rad.  All I'm proposing is a slight tweak to the way it operates!

In a perfect world, the will save would be totally ignored, and life would continue on swimmingly.  However, it goes without saying that, at least subconsciously, characters may act somewhat differently when their player knows when they are being watched (and when they are not being watched, by extension).

Thus, I propose that the scryer be forced to make the save in order to avoid any metagamish situation entirely.

Thoughts?

[Nightshadow]

Make the save hidden entirely, I say. I assume you mean the scry'er simply make the roll, using the victim's bonus, yes?

[12 Hatch]

I'm assuming it is hard to completely hide the save, which is why the alternative I've suggested is to make the caster make the save, thus avoiding alerting the spied-upon individual.

[Iron Oligarch]

While it may have detrimental effects on server performance, a script that has PCs roll Will saves for no reason, on occasion, might also be useful. Scripters will need to weigh in on this.

[Ghost]

While it may have detrimental effects on server performance, a script that has PCs roll Will saves for no reason, on occasion, might also be useful. Scripters will need to weigh in on this.

I've seen this before on another PW. A meaningless save that PCs roll from time to time. The reason it works from a RP perspective is that the player is never sure if the save they're making is from a real scrying attempt or not. As a result players begin to ignore the saves altogether.

[Nightshadow]

That's a great idea, in my opinion. Though I would prefer no visible saves whatsoever as opposed to random saves.

[9lives]

Well, obviously.

[ExileStrife]

I'm pretty darn certain this could be hid.  Who knows though!

[Snoteye]

Saves are easily hid(den).

[Johannes]

Don't dismiss the complexity of the issue! Of course, if it were a mere will save then there would be no difficulty at all implementing a "silent roll" by just simulating it in nwscript. Think about what actually needs to be simulated in the scrying save, however:

• The target's will save
• The target's spell resistance
• The target's additional will save due to spellcraft
• The target's immunity to mind spells
• The target's bonuses to will saves vs mind spells, incorporating bonuses from all items, feats and temporary effects (there exists no bioware function which can directly calculate this).
• The target's bonuses to will saves vs your alignment, from all items, feats and temporary effects.
• The target's bonuses to will saves vs mind spells vs your alignment, from all items, feats and temporary effects.

Now, Snoteye can be my guest. But unless he has other ideas, this is going to be a tad more tedious than he makes out.

[ScottyB]

What if a clone of the PC was made in a temporary area and the clone makes the saving throw?

Edit: Never mind, it doesn't copy effects. Although I suppose the effects could easily be copied with a loop from the target to the clone.

[Johannes]

Excellent thinking. This could work, if we were willing to make the concession of a small delay between the spell and the actual scrying.

[VanillaPudding]

You can be sure this spell is 100% useless due to metagaming unless the save is hidden, outside of a successful save, which should also be revealed and also have a chance to reveal the creator of it, IMO. Wisdom should really only hold a small part in this whole thing <_<

[12 Hatch]

I think the delay is a very, very worthwhile price to pay compared to the potential for undetectable metagaming if the failed save is visible!

[ExileStrife]

Snoteye is a dick(wad).