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As I said in the chat...it is complicated...and I have been in many similar discussions on the Bioware social boards (where you thankfully not yet are being banned for having oppinions that may stray of the mainstream)...so I kind of didn't feel I wanted to repeat the whole discussions and the different points...even though I did agree to provide them in voice chat....
 
That I didn't provide proof for my negative thoughts doesn't mean that other chatter can bash me and end up in a ban...that is just childish...

I think this thread is pretty much done.
 
If you want to discuss stealth problems please create a new thread.
 
We don't need ninjas in this thread...

[What I am trying to say is...let us not forget that this is a game and lets not remove vital systems from the game so some can sleep better because they felt they metagamed less.]

I think Jasede, even with a touch of irony, actually describes a little what I wanted to come to.
 
The thing is...if we think we are some kind of ubra roleplayers who never even metagame the least we are starting a discussion that will probably end up removing most of how the game works.
 
I say roleplaying...sure...but not at the cost of removing vital default systems.
 
If I continue where Jasede left of let us remove the mini-map, which is clearly metagaming the way you are seeing it. Then that you can use examine on most of the things in game is also naturally metagaming. That you can see your own healthbar is metagming. That you can view the world from a 3:rd person view is naturally also metagaming. I mean who in real life can see their own back and then even jolt around the camera like that to even reveal monsters behinds walls and who knows what else.
 
The inventory system is not immersive enough. Many items don't have a weight at all and you can easily tuck your greatsword into your invisible backpack.
 
What I am trying to say is...let us not forget that this is a game and lets not remove vital systems from the game so some can sleep better because they felt they metagamed less.
 
I mean really...if you now are so good roleplayers...why are you looking at the player list before logging in? Just don't look at it if you are so afraid of metagaming. The decision if to metagame or not is always up to you. Most of the time the one who draws the boundaries on it is also you...so it is not appropriate to discuss this with others.
 
One thing I hate while playing is players sending tells with "How could you know that...you are clearly metagaming"...so...instead of thinking of their own roleplaying they actually broke to OOC just to inform the other player of that. I have no respect for such players.
 
Ok. That was a little paranthesis but anyway. We where talking about roleplaying. So lets complicate things.
 
Let us try to understand why Bioware made the game like it is. Let us say you are a real person now in the game and everything is like in real life. First you have 5 senses, which you don't have in the game. Seeing, hearing, communicating and virtually everything works a hell of a lot faster in real life than in the game. Because in the game you are confined to just what the game engine feeds you. So you are very limited when communcating for example...but thats just for starters.
 
So..to actually make the game playable some "giveaways" have to be made.
 
The third person view which was pretty much introduced in Baldur's Gate is a wonderful way of making it easier to see and interact with your fellow players but also to see the world.
 
 
PS. To the developers/admins: please don't take me or my suggestions too seriously. I really don't play here so much and we can clearly see that most players not only are happy with the change but they have also gotten used to it.
 
For me personally the party mode (and player list on logon) is quite important but seeing I am clearly in minority here I will try to leave this subject now.
 
It is however my right to say this and probably you are also thankful to get my oppinion. DS.

Maybe I am just not so much into roleplay as you all seem to be.

Personally I would just be hoping that it could be an improved NWN1.

I kind of agree that they could pretty much label it an MMO but imagine the storm of WoW-clone-kidz. I think they are taking a definite stance here.
 
As many other MMO game developers would say "Look, we are making a totally different MMO game" they are more bold here and abandoning the whole MMO label.
 
Even though it actually IS an MMO people will misinterpret what this game wants to do....and MMO has become synonimous with mainstream fast paced titles for kids.
 
So obviously they wan't to get away from that and this is a good try anyway.

Also, there's only five classes! WTF

At least it is not 5000!
 
Sometimes in NWN I had the feeling that players where constantly asking for more classes and races up to the point where it was rediculos. Not that this server necessarily has the same problems but....
 
Sure I am getting some bad Diablo flashbacks or perhaps a more "arcade game" feeling watching the 5 class thingie but let's give them some time....and not doom on forehand what could be ok...
 
At least it is geared towards multiplayer...

I actually got the same question. I haven't read about it. The only thing I read was that some features in it where actually taken from MMO's...which will probably make most roleplay loving people squirm a little...
 
But other than that....I mean....whats the big deal...

[First...this is not called NWN3 and secondly it is not an MMO!]

First...this is not called NWN3 and secondly it is not an MMO!
 
I don't understand how someone can think it is sad that finally something new with the Neverwinter name is baing made AND for the first time in a long long time multiplayer is in the driver's seat.
 
I don't know if you have realised it...but what we are doing here is kind of multiplayer so.... (well most of us at least).
 
This cannot be worse than NWN2 and also it cannot be worse than D&DO.
 
So as I said...anything trying to resurect the NWN brand cannot be viewed in a sad way.

I don't get this obsession with max HP....

Well .... its a joke. She is not really the leader of the troglodytes :-P
 
If you figured that far then look at the trident she is using...kind of the same as the troglodytes are. (Troglodytes are a type of lizard creature/monster which is known to use tridents and are romoured to inhabit a cave just outside the ruins.)
 
I agree it is maybe far fetched but at least I get to post a pic of this pretty pretty girl in fantasy outfit ;-)

Uhh....the quests get harder??

It might be a little easier on this new server, to stay alive at least.
 
About the leveling I think it is about the same or harder. I think many monsters give very low XP. On quest completion there is an ok reward usually.
 
My character is at level 6 now and it feels like a huge distance to the next level hehe.

No.
 
You need a DM when you engage near NPCs, because like any normal person, they may want to react to what they see. (call the guards, run away, join the fight, etc.) More, a PC might lure NPCs into helping them ("1000 coins if you help me!")

I am not sure this is an answer to my post. If it is i'd just like to say that I pretty much covered that by saying that if a DM was present he is of course in charge and can pretty much allow the players to PvP in front an NPC and perhaps even take part by taking over that NPC.

As for consent for pvp thats a very silly notion. Excuse me sir, can I mug you? Most certainly the answer will be no, as players at times, given the option will be ooc'ly selfish using their pvp shield to evade it at all times. Which is incredibly detrimental to a roleplay environment.

Did it ever strike you that the attacker might have OOC reasons as well? Maybe he just dont like that player so he makes up some bogus history and then kills that character....
 
I think you should not be forced to PvP. Especially if the death rules for PvP are as they are.