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I will take a look at this as I can.

In ideal sense. While I won't step in anyones imagination in that and one could play it in many ways, it feels fitting that catching someone so unguarded and unexpecting, it can play them being woken up by such a sudden horror that is the phantasmal killer, or it being an actual nightmare manifested. In many ways I could see argument for it being more fitting for Dream Eater perk, but this gives the phantasmal killer a niche, narrow case. Rest/sleep is one of those kind rare moments that fit the idea of being surprised completely unguard.

I feel the sleep effect is cool as well but it needs few more things that I did not have time to sort out as there is a lot of other stuff going on, but I will likely investigate it as well. As I said, these are niche options, but fitting to the spell, and provide a challenge for someone to make use of it. It is not easy but if you get to that point - well, it seems fair game to me that it can work like suggested.

If target has began a rest, PhK will skip the will saving, but person will still throw Fortitude vs death. Should it succeed, they will suffer heavy damage that is lessened by persons consitution. It can still subdue them if their hp is low to begin with. If they fail Fortitude save, they will still suffer the death effect.

Possibly sorted next reset.

Thanks for the ideas folks.

Right now there are few options that we are talking about, and those are more or less most that we'd be willing to do, as this has been quite set, intended design for a long time and there tends to be good way to have it "better" for achieving what it has been set to achieve since the beginning.

So, we'll talk and get back to you after we have weighted on the matters and thoughts presented.

I'll look into it. It is niche but very reasonable idea.

It is commonly known by player that seeing them suffer is the rewarding part of DMs daily life

I have to say, that even as a joke these things feel wrong to me. One may say it as a joke, but there is nothing fun in seeing player suffer. I wish to make that perfectly clear and hope people can leave that thought behind. We are not literally wasting time to make people suffer. Seeing that characters struggle, suffer even if you want, and then have chances to triumph are moments we enjoy. So no, don't make these jokes, because they have nothing to do with the discussion.

Simple fact is that without the penalty and fear of loss, things would be boring. It gives it meaning to survive and not die. People would keep and achieve their peak point and never be moved from it or be shaken of any risk. As it is, many rewards are very good already. Unfortunately this aspect itself is not very likely to change, because efu has always felt the want and need for death to be scary and something you want to avoid even if it's not permanent death.

Ring running as such is what we intend it to be at it keeps getting iterated and worked with time, but will not so easily be opened, and is not part of this discussion.

Keep the suggestion on topic for each thread and focus on concise points.

Back to topic: It is also option we just remove the xp tick completely and return to original state of not having any of recovery xp ticks, if there is some bad feels for it.

In short.

Xp penalty is the penalty in failing or having bad luck. Encountering a clear point of loss. Something you want to avoid.

It's not clever, or somehow good, constructive or positive thing. But the consequence of it achieves a very old intention: People hating and fearing it. While I fully, truly, acknowledge all arguments about what I am going to say, I feel it is necessary. Risk vs reward, and in here reward is many layered. Playing a character, interesting concept, loot, rewards, power, infamy, what ever it might be. Surviving. You could more safely achieve certain stage of being and just stay there, not take any risks, but it also stands that you may not have possibilities to triumph in anything bigger. Not always bad that either, as small things in every day interaction accumulate to memorable and important deeds and existence, too, even if it's not as often.

Funny enough, recovery xp was made as a by product of DM simply wanting there to be little something for less questing people, wallflowers and those that may use more time but not quest as much, to get little back from that penalty, while others who are active anyway, will get it back faster. It was a little nudge to those who simply struggle to quest as much, no matter what - never a penalty for people that quest because they get things faster anyway. Active people earn their xp, yes, no denying that, but for good or worse, it was our way of acknowledging that people are different and some will not be able to reach as high as others. It was only a boon when there would not be anything otherwise, but like players, some DM's have also in time viewed it as somekind demerit to morale for just existing.

So, as I've had this discussion over a decade here and there, I present my view on it as I am likely the one who must do whatever is done, if anything at all:

1.) Present me very very short and concise, easy to read in a glance summary of your optional idea. If you can do logical process steps a bit, always good, but no worries if you can put it in simple words. (Logical being technical ideas. Math, numbers, percentage and steps of how it functions as to helping the process of coding it or editing it)
2.) Consider why penalty, to at least us old school players and in efu feels like it's important. If you disagree, then I am happy to see your thought on it as some have pointed out here, but what would be a feared risk factor or something that makes death and failure have that weight.

Unfortunately reading pure text when I try to look at matters of math or reasons for these sort of systems is difficult and time consuming, and as we have a lot of stuff to read every day, I lean on my practical engineer's nature and rely on easy to read bits. We will always have a penalty, because that's what we just believe feels necessary and desired for death to be something you want to avoid, and be treated seriously. But ideas are welcome.

This could be potential idea for some things, or particular seams.

At the moment it's not super easy but I certainly have considered similar, as it requires bit more backend work on server-side to make it clean and less straining to be automated, but yes, thanks for the suggestion. These are in our mind in different forms.

If we are able to at some point present some such things, it's likely we are not changing existing system, but have some as additional thing that are longer lasting / more permanent.

Did little something on this, lets see how if it changes this issue.

For what it's worth, the party system for rat collection is unlikely to happen, because it's meant to be something more... Scruffy and lonely budding hunters and desperate people can do. People can still collect tails and share them equally if they so choose, which serves pretty much same purpose but you won't all stack up same gold and exp for the total amounts.

Otherwise, as we discussed shortly, try to provide your reasons and feelings as to why you felt some of these ideas could be beneficial. There was merit there, and while it may not all be what we are after, they are intentional and well targeted suggestions with good reasoning.

It is in effect actual counter spell, that is casted and made. Very idea to me has always been that it likewise needs a spell and that spell is used, so I wouldn't personally want to make it otherwise.

What Dredi said is correct, yes.

But yes, it's true, it's bit archaic how the system activates/resets, mostly because of simplified setup. It could be better and worth probably revamping at some point but I won't promise anything on the fly.

I might do something related to level/losing levels and so on.

First of all.

What character?

Secondly, what do you mean not refreshed? What should have been refreshed or should have happened in your opinion?

Specific concrete example of what is in your mind helps me to check in things, otherwise I am just guessing and I rarely have time for that so I will just move onto more concrete matters first.