Suggested Improvements on the New Quest / Party System

[PlayaCharacter]

Count me as one who really likes the new system. Like Beggar, however, I've got my issues with the way it's implemented.

The new system is great insofar as it prevents the involuntary metagaming that occurs when you party up with someone. The problem is that the convenient and easy system we had for managing party affairs has been replaced by something far less intuitive, adding a learning curve to any new player who wants to check the place out. I agree with Beggar to that extent, but I think the new system can be patched up and made as easy to use as the original party system.

My thoughts are as follows:

1. Only one person should be in charge of managing the party. The process should be completely invisible to the other questers. An "Add/Remove" tool should allow the party leader to see the current party in a numbered conversation list, remove someone on that list by selecting the corresponding number, and add a player to the list by clicking on them with the tool.

Unless I'm missing something, this system would leave all of the OOC considerations to the party leader. Once the quest was started, the party leader would only have to add anyone not on the list, or remove people accidentally added by proximity.

2. Quests should be given a third completion option. Instead of "You have completed the quest" or "You have abandoned the quest" there should also be an option for "You have been removed from the quest by the party leader." This way, players who are kicked from a quest before it begins for IC reasons (or because they were added by mistake) don't have to wait for a reset to take the same quest with another party.

3. Extend the XP award to include everyone within fog range. Fog range is the default distance between a PC and the line of fog at the end of their screen. AFAIK, this is also the range beyond which the AI will not respond to attack (wild orc shamans notwithstanding). This prevents PCs from exploiting the AI with bows and crossbows, but still includes them in the fight.

Am I missing anything?

[Disco]

Cant we just "remove" the party portraits in the upper right area, and otherwise keep the old party system?
This way there would be no metagaming locations, hp and so on. and we would still keep a simple well tested system that we (and players from other servers) are familiar with.

[Letsplayforfun]

Although i do enjoy the new system, and i'm sure most will once the inevitable little bugs are solved, Beggar brings up a very valid point about players coming across from other servers.

If EfU begins to niche into very pointy mechanics, however excellent, it risks loosing players, or at least not attracting many more. I don't believe we want it to become a private small community elite server. The game is old already so brand new players is tough.

So, although i endorse that change and i don't think we should revert back to the old one, just be careful not being lured by high-tek-revolutionnary things. In the end, we all want to have fun and put away the mechanics as much as possible. Radical modification are a slippery slope.

[Snoteye]

Cant we just "remove" the party portraits in the upper right area, and otherwise keep the old party system?

Unfortunately not. It's either or.

[Mort]

Forget the distance from xp. You wont notice it, unless you are several screens away or AFK in a corner of the map.

Similarly, in DM events, we needed party to be small to prevent lag. In this, well, no lag from parties, and everyone present shares xp. DM XP is based on people nearby, it works totally the same. If you are in a different map, No, you might not get XP -- But it's the same problem if people forgot to invite you to the party before, just a different side.

If people who tried thinks it is awful after a few weeks. We'll revert. I think I made it very user friendly and disgruntlement is due to misunderstandings, but I could be wrong! I tried it as a player and thought it was awesome.

Most of the comments In-game from people who tried it thought it was great and most of the disgruntlement came, usually, before trying it out.

[St Juste]

I was against this new party system, now that I had tried, I love it!

Now is possible to bluff more, a rookie can boast himself as a veteran, and a veteran can lie and pass for a newbie. You will judge a mage from spell cast ( no more, mage 28 hit, ah 5 lv with cost 14 , or a fighter with 28 hit? oh no a kamikaze, if we wanna see him alive after the first fight, we must...).

Now roleplay is more easy, excellent!

However, if it risks loosing players, I will sadly vote against, because  the reason of play online are the other players...

My hope is that the others will love this new sistem too ...

[Blake the Boar]

If it results in loosing players, trust me, those who give up because of this awesome feature, we won't miss them.

[FleetingHeart]

If it results in loosing players, trust me, those who give up because of this awesome feature, we won't miss them.

You can't say that with any certainty.
 
I know new players are somewhat slow to arrive these days, but if I as a new player encountered this on a different server where I had no play history, I'd probably go somewhere else.
 
Now, not to honk my own horn but I have received compliments on my play and characters in the past. None of that would have happened if I had never come to play here.
 
Sure, you can't miss what you never experience, but I can say for certain that if I had not been here, there would be characters that would have happened differently, no matter how small my impact.
 
That said, I do like the system, I just find it to be poorly documented. Especially at the start when all the panic hit the fan. There are still some questions that I have not seen answered, nor had the chance to experience in game. Chiefly, traps and how they work without a party. Both player layed traps and QA trap obstacles.
 
As for changes, I think it is safe to say most placeable quest 'givers' could have their radius increased for quest pickup. Most are not in highly trafficked areas and should not cause a problem with people accidently getting flagged for a quest.
 
Of course, this would never be an issue if players had the opportunity to drop a quest without being flagged as failing for the day. So that if random player A does happen to be in the area of a quest giver and get flagged for the quest, they can drop it with no penalty. If they want to pick it up again later, fine. If, however, they enter the quest area, they lose this opportunity and are now locked into the quest. If they drop it, they have to wait 24 hours or until a reset.
 
This could be handled quite simply by forcing a journal update on QA entry. That way, the quest tool can know whether or not you have entered the QA yet.

[Blake the Boar]

You can't say that with any certainty.
 
I know new players are somewhat slow to arrive these days, but if I as a new player encountered this on a different server where I had no play history, I'd probably go somewhere else...

I've seen new players leave for numerous reasons, most of them, things that make the server awesome. Some of them were, the level of difficulty and challenge, the heavy death XP penalty, the low level range, applications needed for PRCs ... So, players who leave for these reasons will likely have fun elsewhere, and these very reasons fall on the same category as this new update, IMO.

[FleetingHeart]

That doesn't mean they are bad people and would contribute nothing if they stayed.

[Archon]

Here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

I like this server.  I really do.  But I have noticed that since the new implementation there are definitely less people on at any time of the day.  Last night I was on, and there was only 1 other person on the server, something I had not seen in several weeks of playing.

Usually when I log on in the mornings (my mornings that is), I would see 20+ people on.  This morning, there was about 12-15.

This change is definitely driving people away, and quite frankly, that is not a positive thing, no matter what sort of spin you put on it.

And the big thing that is beginning to grate on me is the lack of numbers on this server.  It's no good having an "awesome" ruleset, if no one else appreciates it and goes plays on another server.  Because then the people who do appreciate it such as myself are left with less and less people to play with.

As a result of the declining numbers, I too have been tempted to move to another server simply becuase they at least have more players on all the time, so you won't just be wandering around waiting for someone else to log in so you can quest with them.

Lets face it EFTU is not a solo server, you need other players on to quest with, and in most cases the level 5+ quests require 3+ people. You ain't gonna get that if you are running a level 5-7 character and the only other person on the server is a level 3-4.

End rant.

[Snoteye]

If it results in loosing players, trust me, those who give up because of this awesome feature, we won't miss them.

Yes, that would be incorrect.

[Mort]

I seriously doubt any slump in activity is due to any single change or factor, but a conglomeration of factors.

[Archon]

I seriously doubt any slump in activity is due to any single change or factor, but a conglomeration of factors.

Whilst that may indeed be the case, adding yet another complexity to an already complex server may well be the straw that breaks some camels backs...

I ain't saying that the slump is solely due to this, but if you have a better explanation as to the slump in player numbers in the last week, I would love to hear it.

[Meldread]

While I think Beggar brings up some good points, I am curious if he has tried the new system thoroughly.  I had a handful of reservations before I tried it, but overall I think it is a net positive.  I will also concede that added complexity may not be good for attracting new players, however I would counter that argument with one of my own.  

NWN is an old game and we are in competition with many other servers similar in some respect to our own.  A unique feature such as this gives us the chance to stand out from among our competition, and could potentially draw in more interested individuals.  Individuals who show up to try out something "different and new."

I would not be so quick to claim that it will cause new players to turn away, although I will not argue that some will not be turned away as a result.  As Archon mentioned I have seen new players leave EfU for a number of reasons.  Most that I have seen leave EfU do so as a result of our allowance of PvP.  In fact, I can say that one new player left last week as a result of an IC incident that involved PvP.

Should we then, in an effort to keep more players, disallow PvP between PC's or put large limitations upon it?  I would say no.  It is something that makes EfU unique, and helps create the type of environment that we enjoy.

Finally, a note on something that has not been mentioned.  I have noticed as a result of these changes people are using their own healing much more often.  I bring this up so that it may be taken into consideration when it comes to balancing out EfU: A and healing on quests.