Get 1 Tumble Rank

[el groso]

Far from me to try to interfere in anyone's build or concept. This is not the goal here. However, we all know the engine has its limitations, and one of them bothers me every now and then. Actions based in tumble, mostly climbing will be dependent on a tumble score. However, you will never get a single tumble score if you do not have at least one rank, cross class or not. So, even if you get an item called "Super Magic Climbing Claws", that gives you +20 tumble to illustrate it's climbing properties, IT WILL NOT WORK if you have no ranks in tumble. Earlier today we spent over 20 minutes (RL time) trying to get a guy to climb a rope. Using all resources we had. Boost on tumble, boost on dexterity, and I've seen and been part of this more often than I would like, aggregates absolutely nothing to the fun or whatever people seek in this game. So, I hereby suggest to any PC, unless he's a cripple or something like that, to please, GET ONE TUMBLE RANK.

Thanks. :)

[Paha]

Tried things like boosting the guys strength? But it's true. It can be very bothersome. It is something we are looking into.

[The Old Hack]

While I understand how annoying it can be mechanics-wise, it sometimes bothers me that 'mandatory skills' exist. When I have a very sedentary character with purely social and/or lore-based skills it makes me itch to have to put a skill rank in Tumble 'because the character needs it.' :/

I am not sure if I am even making sense in this. But it just feels wrong to me. If I envision my character as awkward or uncertain of itself when it comes to physical skills, or alternately just very sedentary, it seems horribly wrong to me to take that one point in Tumble. One example is a character  I am planning to make my main after Lucita is finished. She has spent her whole life in a sedentary profession and on top of that is not fully recovered from debilitating physical illness. I just... can't make myself stuff points into Tumble with her. :\

*sigh* I guess I am rambling. Just my feelings on this.

~tOH.

[el groso]

While I understand how annoying it can be mechanics-wise, it sometimes bothers me that 'mandatory skills' exist. When I have a very sedentary character with purely social and/or lore-based skills it makes me itch to have to put a skill rank in Tumble 'because the character needs it.' :/

I am not sure if I am even making sense in this. But it just feels wrong to me. If I envision my character as awkward or uncertain of itself when it comes to physical skills, or alternately just very sedentary, it seems horribly wrong to me to take that one point in Tumble. One example is a character  I am planning to make my main after Lucita is finished. She has spent her whole life in a sedentary profession and on top of that is not fully recovered from debilitating physical illness. I just... can't make myself stuff points into Tumble with her. :\

*sigh* I guess I am rambling. Just my feelings on this.

~tOH.

TOH, I see where you are coming from. But 1 rank in tumble should be equivalent to being able to jump half a foot high. I am not suggesting it should be mandatory. But if you character is at least somewhat barely athletic, that 1 rank won't hurt.

[Guttersnipe]

The problem here isn't so much that el groso is saying that every PC should be athletic enough to have 1 rank of Tumble. The issue is a mechanical one, with how NWN deals with the skill. You can't boost the Tumble of a PC who doesn't have at least one rank, so if said PC enters a situation where they need to climb there's literally no way to help them get up that rope, or down that cliff, or whatever it might be. This can lead to that PC becoming stranded in a predicament they can't get out of, unless there happens to be a DM around to adjudicate hauling them up by rope, or whatever solution the PCs decide on.

Consider it a NWN mechanical failing which has no easy work-around that can simply be scripted in. Taking the 1 rank in Tumble is the simplest way to avoid becoming a victim of this failing of the game engine.

[Axiom]

Yes, agreed with Guttersnipe. Also consider how the skills work. Untrained in my mind means you literally never learned anything about them. I would think almost anyone could justify having one point in tumble. From having climbed on things as a child if nothing else.

[Pigadig]

With a rope your best bet is to take weight off them, get them to get naked and give them a bulls.

But yeah, some of the mandatory tumble-to-climb checks are annoying.

Edit: Also if all else fails Blackout climbing can be used as a last resort.

[el groso]

Not to mention that ICly it makes absolutely no sense Knocking the guy down to carry him. You can carry someone who is awake and willing to help you help him/her. So, should this be the last resource, at least RP that you're carrying the guy -without- having to punch his face until he falls unconscious. Well, that's just another suggestion ... :)

[Pigadig]

You've never travelled the underdark until you've done it when two party members are KO'd every time you need to climb up a cliff.

[putrid_plum]

I find it odd climbing is hard for races who dwell int he UD, like a dwarf.  A dwarf ftr would have a very hard time in caverns wich they likely would be OK in, same as gnomes.  It's a class thing for sure.  I hate having to take tumble if you ever want to climb at all in any way good.