Listening Tour...

[ShadowCharlatan]

This post's original content has been deleted.

[VanillaPudding]

http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98316

[Kinslayer988]

Hi again SC. There are many things to be said about EFU mechanically and plot-wise.

Mechanically EFU sports some of the most scrawling and amazing mechanics found not on NWN but video games in general. We now have animal taming, IG faction recruitment/wages/advancement, amazing perks, and a huge crafting system.

But the thing about all of the mechanical advancements is that we will not be able to enjoy them to their fullest if there are no EFU plots, storylines, and quests to experience them with. In the end it is not mechanics and cool haks that bring people to a server but the events, conflicts, themes, areas, and character interactions that bring out EFU and make it popular.

Priorities:
1) DM involvement with DM Factions and Associations. This means more NPC possessions, backing on the big plots between factions, possessing the Directors far more often, and having a willingness of NPCs to actually work with the characters when they act instead of staying in the faction HQ doing whatever they do in their office or patch of dirt.

2) Open Gossip Thread plot-hooks. Drawing inspiration from RwG's thread on plotlines, I would appreciate more DM activity on the announcements/gossip thread on basic mundane things. Just describing how the city is going. "Many would notice the Sanctuary around them bustling with activity. Todark was abuzz with news of the Sanctuary Wolves being beaten in their patrols... and Ordersman known as Saul Faerstine has been causing some trouble in the Lower Ward trying to create his own branch of crusade... The Spellguard have been desperately searching for star maps and are recruiting..." which would give DM endorsement of these factions, players, and plotlines that have formed by the players. It is a sad truth that there a strong difference when a DM endorses or mentions something than when a player does.

3) Event Calendar. It would be absolutely wonderful for players and DMs alike to create a calendar of events for collaboration and organization. Say you want to hold a DM Quest to continue a plot as a DM? A player wanting to show their masterpiece play, a planned raid on Upper Sanctuary, a Targus Arena event, or simple BOM/CALC fun madness. This would make things much easier and provide some expectations if DMs and players are into that.

4) Treasure dungeon public quests. A content light system with some influence or no influence of the plot of the server. Imagine a great crypt in the Lowerdark which can be opened with a large amount of easily acquired magic rocks. Inside you find non-respawning masses of undead, but the strongest you have ever seen. Riddles and puzzles actually scripted into the Crypt. A confusing dungeon to come through and requires preparations and some knowledge beforehand. Imagine you are playing a mercenary that wants to explore the Crypt and take whatever is within. You try to create a great mercenary company to prepare for this, but what is this!?

A cabal of necromancer PCs are trying to open it too and use the dead! The necromancers greatly overpower you so now you are forced to aid the church or Spellguard in return for their aid against the Necromancers. But what is this? A gang of thieves from Lower have found the crypt and want a piece of it too! Turns out you had turn-coats in your rank and that they want the gold too. The three parties fight until eventually you and your party succeeds into the end. And find a treasure consisting of around 20,000 coin and some powerful 1/day gear to be split amongst the group.

Not only did you just score a mighty amount of mechanical bonuses but you have pissed off the necromatic cabal, created some turn-coats, and made enemies of Lowersmen. And if you are a wizard and sucked up the Spellguard, earn a recommendation.

5)Promote conflict with the Society of the Ordered Mind. I cannot stress this enough. One thing that has haunted this chapter is that the factions do not fluently change or fluctuate. Creating a state of stagnation where many players have grown bored of the Watch and Spellguard and has led them to want to leave underdark. With Sanctuary having a very strong base as the original chapter, the factions do not change and have remained stable. However I would be keen to see more change in ideals for factions and new plotlines to be explored. An example of some changes and conflict in the Society was Saul's exile and rather chaotic way of doing things compared to other members. He was shunned but I saw he had his own cabal of workers in Lower causing problems with Lowersmen and Uppersmen. A salute to Zango for his work on that and it brought some conflict and new plots.

I have mentioned the factions in general but have singled out the Society. The Society is different from the Watchers or Spellguard because their main focus is NPC based. The Dread Empire are NPCs thus conflict is more or less limited to striking the Illithid with a DM and making the hugely VILLIFIED grain contract plotline. I love the goal of the Society to be focused on the mind and on great good zeal unlike the other factions but I don't see it being shown well enough. They have proven their champions are far more lawful neutral and the way it has been played is more as a lawful neutral instead of goodly crusaders fighting the Dread to save us. A new enemy or thralls to actively pursue would change some things so I encourage DMs and players mostly to take a look into that sector.

6. Make crafting worthy again. Not sure if any of you expected this from me but I am a fan of the crafting system. I like it because it keeps PCs on in the dry hours, and gets them outside the main hub. Alchemists can't succeed well in Upper if they don't go outside to gather their reagents!

7. Be inclusive. When there are new characters avidly looking to figure out what a mysterious sending is or trying to go on that DM quest or go into that big PC meeting to discuss what is to be done with Lower, don't kick out the new PCs. Include them, invite them. IG you are showing the little people how to be strong like the big peeps and OOCly you are giving that player a chance to get involved. I have seen countless new players try to get to the thick of EFU only to be denied because their character was too new. (I can understand there are some exemptions)

I am enjoying the supply level as is. I did notice that there is a big trend of certain individuals who hold the highest levels and powers in proportion to the rest of the characters. Coin is a huge influence on this setting and it brings both good things and bad. What I do like is that the coin is at least circulating and meeting with new people. Oomig went from zero to 1,000 on recruiment fees and then 4,000 more on contract which was absolutely valuable to starting up the Wolves and creating some conflict later down the road.

Hope you all enjoyed the read, any questions can be answered via PM on forum or IRC.

[Vlaid]

I only have one request that you haven't already listed in your examples as stuff I'd like to see.

More influence and reaction by NPCs in Sanctuary and around the module in general. Especially on the political side of Sanctuary I think we could definitely use a bit more presence of the NPC powers-that-be letting you know they exist and their opinions matter for more than what they say when you write them a letter.

Other examples such as small groups of commoners upset with the inaction of the Directorate, or maybe as the racial tensions against Elves over the past have slowly continued to rise more anti-elven commoner demonstrations that could spark into riots. These kind of non-event event things do a lot to bring Sanctuary alive and make it feel like a living breathing place.

When you have political rivals but all the political rivals of said people are NPCs that are for the most part scenery it's hard to figure out how to approach the situation. Having those NPCs take a more active and interested role in the direction of Sanctuary would help grease the wheels of conflict.

It shouldn't always be NPCs pushing around players but having a majority of people in one political guild or another active shouldn't be a case for free reign because the NPCs just aren't saying, doing or reacting to what's going on.

Or for that matter use existing NPCs in significant positions of power to offer up small/medium sized plots that are risky but offer potentially great rewards (or the knowledge of being owed a huge favor by someone in high authority).

[granny]

OH, oh oh oh oh!!!!! I cannot believe! Finally the day of my wish list comes! I am so excited!

First of all: DISEASES! For long they have been one of the most fun stuff of EFU to me because they allow you to do awesome stuff without bothering DMs that much. Yet, they would be even more awesome with some tweaking. Here is a thread on the several matters we have discussed in the past.

Then, CURSES!!!! It would be neat to be able to curse stuff other than gear too, like doors, chests and other inanimate stuff, trap style. Also, the different kinds of curses could have some different visual effect on the victim. People usually only notice the stats change without RP related to it.

You try to create a great mercenary company to prepare for this, but what is this!?

A cabal of necromancer PCs are trying to open it too and use the dead! The necromancers greatly overpower you so now you are forced to aid the church or Spellguard in return for their aid against the Necromancers. But what is this? A gang of thieves from Lower have found the crypt and want a piece of it too! Turns out you had turn-coats in your rank and that they want the gold too. The three parties fight until eventually you and your party succeeds into the end.

Kinslayer's suggestion on having multiple party quests is neat too. I remember of similar stuff in EFU:M and I guess it was kinda fun, if a bit chaotic. Depending on how it is organized, it can even (maybe) diminish lag by dissolving the groups of players to different portions of the server.

[Damien]

Buff the end exp for low level quest, and hardcore prelude. Make sets more visible, by the time you find some it's already weaker than your dm loot. Pretty much everything you mentioned.

Also I'm glad you're dming again.

[Spiffy Has]

An optional way for players to attain high levels that doesn't involve questing or dms watching over their shoulders 24/7. Like say, at level 6, they can select an option that gives them an XP wage, but removes their ability to gain XP from quests (much like Myconids!). This will permit individuals, like merchants, politicians, etc... who have little reason to quest to do so for supplies, but their presence and role play still benefits them level wise.

The level 8 perks for rogues are considerable, and non-questing concepts like Politician/Merchant Lord often means they rely entirely on DM xp for that final push into level 8dom.

[Grotesque]

The Machine. I find myself deeply appreciative of its puzzles (Entstehung, Access Ways), but these feel very antiquated by now. The Machine is largely composed of EFU1 remnants and it'd be nice with some fresher things. Things like previously restricted, dangerous sections coming into play with Mystryl's influence.

It is by far my favorite aspect of EFU, and I'd love any additions that emphasize its vastness and the dangers of braving its labyrinthine ways. Proportionally greater risks and rewards would be a big plus. More mazes, more dangers beyond the hostile NPCs - maybe electric pylons that randomly flare active and proceed to purge any non-constructs in certain sections. I want it to be more unpredictable, deadly and littered with secrets.

[Kinslayer988]

I only have one request that you haven't already listed in your examples as stuff I'd like to see.

More influence and reaction by NPCs in Sanctuary and around the module in general. Especially on the political side of Sanctuary I think we could definitely use a bit more presence of the NPC powers-that-be letting you know they exist and their opinions matter for more than what they say when you write them a letter.

Other examples such as small groups of commoners upset with the inaction of the Directorate, or maybe as the racial tensions against Elves over the past have slowly continued to rise more anti-elven commoner demonstrations that could spark into riots. These kind of non-event event things do a lot to bring Sanctuary alive and make it feel like a living breathing place.

When you have political rivals but all the political rivals of said people are NPCs that are for the most part scenery it's hard to figure out how to approach the situation. Having those NPCs take a more active and interested role in the direction of Sanctuary would help grease the wheels of conflict.

It shouldn't always be NPCs pushing around players but having a majority of people in one political guild or another active shouldn't be a case for free reign because the NPCs just aren't saying, doing or reacting to what's going on.

Or for that matter use existing NPCs in significant positions of power to offer up small/medium sized plots that are risky but offer potentially great rewards (or the knowledge of being owed a huge favor by someone in high authority).

Yes this too absolutely!

[Random_White_Guy]

Character Advancement Bonus. Bump it to level 6 or level 8. For every PC. Having played a Myconid I cannot say how refreshing it was to be able to interact with EFU in such a capacity as allowing a gradual XP flow for time put into the server.

DMs can't be everywhere and this allows PCs who are pushing things to still be rewarded without the nessecity of direct DM intervention.

This means that PCs who are doing things would get RP XP for things such as:

[indent]Banditry
Political schemes and actions
Merchant dealings
Expoloration of the Wilds
Antagonistic workings
Scholarly pursuits
Spying for PCs on other PCs[/indent]

And there's more. Gladiator type PCs who just fight in the arena and similar could flourish with an advancement of the CAB. DMs can't be everywhere and PCs throw a lot of time into this server.

Promoting non-traditional EXP gain would allow people to pursue other avenues of RP and enterprise without being leaps and bounds behind the rest of the game.

People always say "YEAH BUT PEOPLE WOULD ABUSE IT" except people abuse every system. I'd rather have cool PCs getting levels to survive the ganksquad over the PCs who typically tend to acquire higher levels outright. There is such a culture of "Yeah that's a cool idea, we can talk about that later after we see to those Umberhulks" and similar in EFU because it is such an XP driven server.

I can tell you first hand trying to get people to explore the far ends of server is quickly overshadowed when someone mentions Spiders. "Oh, yeah that sounds cool but we should see to those Spiders first it sounds a far bigger threat".

An XP tick isn't that much and if people are online long enough for such to kick in then it's more likely than not they're up to something anyway. With the death rate on EFU it's not like we'd be inundated with 50,000 level 8 PCs and there is still the low level experience that so many people crave in a D&D environment.

[PanamaLane]

I'd like to see some kind of time based advancement system that does not function on xp, but instead gives points which could be spent through the crafting menu on different minor, permeant buffs. Would be a system to encourage players to actually spend time IG, as well as take some of the sting out of death a little, cause if you stick it out and don't quit the character, in a few more hours IG, you can spend a point on x or y or even z.

I have a lot more specific ideas surrounding this system and if its desirable, ask me about them.

[OuterSanctum]

An optional way for players to attain high levels that doesn't involve questing or dms watching over their shoulders 24/7.

This would indeed be wonderful.

Also, at the risk of making suggestions that are self-beneficial, some of the nerfs to the alchemy/herbalism system have been a bit too great.  A lot of items are not that powerful and have 1 week cooldowns, on top of being incredibly dangerous to make.  Some items weigh 5-10 pounds and therefore cannot be realistically used (on top of their dangerousness and cooldown).  Many items are usable by sorc/wizard only which -hardly- makes sense when a non-wizard/sorc is the one crafting the item.

I don't mind the long cooldowns to prevent mass-production/abuse of powerful items.  It is rather disappointing, however, when I risk death/perm, use expensive ingredients, and wind up with an item that casts a meh spell once on a one-week cooldown that I can't even use.  

The alchemy/herbalism system is one of the greatest on EfU.  Neverwinter Nights is 12 years old now.  I'm fairly sure many of us have played every class and dozens of interesting concepts over the years.  Custom systems and kits like EfU has is one of the things that keeps the game fresh and awesome.

[glutenfree]

Give factions more thematic quirks.  They don't necessarily need to be mechanically advantageous, just small perks that bring out the theme of a faction.

For example:
The Society could have a kennel of aberrant sniffing beetles that can be acquired for favor points.  

The Frontier Division of the Watchers could have "Waycant".  An 'X' number of times per rest they can make a mark in an area embedded with a message.  Only other Wayscouts or Watchers would be able to discern what these marks say.  

Watchers of the Defense Division might get the ability to buy reduced priced barricades or perhaps they gain an ability to assemble an "impromptu" barricade once per day, though its integrity being lesser than an ordinary barricade.  

Watchers of the Investigation Division might get access to a few lookout towers placed about Sanctuary with spyglasses they can view through indefinitely.  

Auxiliary of the Engineering School assembling mediocre animatronic companions

Auxiliary of the War School maybe get access to specially bred "war-hounds".

[Rutergin]

I would personally like to see a means to close the gap from level five to level six, because as it currently stands the way to do so is abysmally slow. You have only seven or so quests that cap at five, but when you are level five and doing those quests you barely get any XP or gear that'll help in the future of doing six and above capped quests. I realize that there are ways to get to six without having to do those lower ones, by trailing on higher level quests, but when you're a new character, you're more often than not going to be left behind.

The other way to six is to farm hundreds of rock worms in the pits, which I think is heavily saturated in MMOisation, something that I heard that we were trying to move away from. I just feel as though this is something that should be looked into.

Secondly, another point I would like to bring up is the availability and overall difficulty of most 7-8 capped quests. They are all, with a few exceptions, very easy and simple to repeat on end until you are level 8 or 9, but when you get to 8 or 9, you then move up to very hard / engaging quests that require more attention and seem an actual challenge. The problem I am seeing here is that everyone who is smart would merely do the simple tasks of doing the 7-8 capped quests, hitting 8, and then sitting at that level while doing whatever else they want to.

There should be more challenge in the quests for those levels, because too often there are people engaging in these quests. In EFUM, it seemed that hitting level six was a massive deal, because of how much more difficult it was to get to the higher levels with the quests available. There was more challenge, definitely more ways to die, and in turn, there was much more reward for doing them, with supplies and XP matching its difficulty. Now it seems in EFUR eight is a big deal, one more readily achieved in the simplicity of the quests available to us.

I think the biggest point I am trying to convey here is that EFUR should be more challenging and enticing in the rewards available through quests, with better potions and gear, but more difficulties in getting them, with monsters and other challenges being raised to a higher level. Hitting eight should be a bigger challenge than what it currently is, an achievement that other people on the server can look at you and be like 'Yeah, this guy actually deserves to be at that level,' especially when the server cap is ten.

[Random_White_Guy]

Another thing I thought I'd mention is remove the difference between DM XP and Permanent DM XP. If a DM is giving a PC experience it usually means that something positive has been done to the point where it has gotten the DMs attention, an event beyond the difficulty of the average quest was comleted and similar.

Ever since the systems implementation I always found it frustrating that some XP would be permanent while other XP would just be erased by an unfortunate string of deaths.

Getting Supercrit by an Uber Umber Behemoth or gun down by an Orog Hero Scout with Tue Seeing in the Wilds should not remove the fact that a DM rewarded XP for surviving an event or kicked me a few hundred XP for pushing my PC faction. The same could be said of a Lag-Death resulting in a PC's demise while off anywhere in the module or at a DM event.

The lure of permanent XP may be something that drives people into taking action beyond casual questing grinds and allow Merchant PCs and otherwise to acquire and maintain a level of XP on par with the people who go out and adventure without being left in the dust.

This also encourages PCs to have longer life spans.

People always say EFU's high death penalty "Encouraged people to take death seriously" but frankly I believe our player base is mature enough to handle that sort of thing.

Make all DM XP permanent XP and if a PC Isn't taking death seriously FD and retire their character.