What would make you play more non-human PCs?

[Egon the Monkey]

I've noticed that since Ticker got invaded, the number of non-human PCs has took a nosedive.  Associations have been whittled down to 5 Human-Only (with some exceptions for Velstra) Houses, the Recondite (Recondite only, outlaws) and the druids (outlaws).  And the Prospectors, but they don't appear to have a goal beyond "hoard planar junk to fix up our hall". There's not a clear rival to the Peerage any more. Given that, it's just so much easier to get in on DM plot or political conflict as a human because you can openly work with any of the Peerage factions. Whereas there's a much smaller number of PCs likely to think that working with the Recondite or Druids is a good idea.

Thing is, there's lore to build on here. A big draw of playing a non-human character in an RPG is in playing with an alien perspective on the world. Without that, halflings just work out as short humans and elves as skinny humans with pointy ears:

• The Recondite are fresh and amazing and well done to Arc for a brief that feels solid and interesting to interact with whenever I cross paths with a Recondite PC.
• The Dwarf lore is now accessible without a keystone, which is good. But there's not much there beyond the paladin oath and the names. Their religion brief is, however excellent as it contains mysticism, encouragement to action, and reasons for followers to disagree. "All Ancestors are worthy but not all Ancestors are Good" indeed!
• Elf lore is there but all I've seen is pretty damn deep, so you don't start out with much to build your characterisation with. It's excellent, but rather inaccessible.
• Halfling lore is... IDK pirates?
• There's definitely something going on with Gnomes between the Toyfolly and the mysterious lack of any old-age gnomes in the city.
• Half orcs can wonder about Gnasharim, although with the Crossroads gone it doesn't seem to show up as much.

All of this has massive potential,  but I think it needs a bit more of a push. I don't think that more X Race Only factions are the way to go, as it makes them fragile. It's hard to recruit IC, and it limits you to one PC minority. "Human only" only works because human is very flexible on builds and the default pick. I do think that factions with a moderate prejudice towards a couple of character races could work. So it's not just a cae of "sudden bursts of dwarf or elf groups then nothing when they TPK"

As an example, halflings.

• Given that Vunco was as an infamous pirate, what about pushing halflings with a nautical culture?
  
• Replacing most of the Canal Mariner NPCs with halflings and working that in more would give an area that's dominated by a strong nonhuman group that the Peerage can't just stomp on as they need the trade.
• You get an incentive to ring run and you could promote a set of values based on exploration and discovery
• Halflings in the Mariner's Guild get an automatic positive bias from faction NPCs, but there's no straight-up ban on anyone else. Life's just unfairly easier when you're a halfling. Meaning there's a strong incentive to play a halfling if you want to be a sailor but it's not enough to ditch your preferred concept if you really want to play a dwarven master of the boarding axe.

What would make you play a dwarf next? Or a halfling? an Elf? Even... A GNOME?

[creme bulette]

There is nothing about any of these races that strikes me as being particularly interesting. If I was to not play a human, I would want to go really hard on the "not human" spectrum and play a subrace. Starting a character with an inability to interact with half of the server (typically more) is really dissatisfying for a game that thrives on engaging character interactions.

In my time on EFU, I've observed that dwarves and elves tend to be a part of small clique groups (usually organized OOC) that, as you say, die immediately once the leadership goes away. The lore isn't very interesting and most subrace characters tend to feel like cringy caricatures. Aye ale kin; vedui cousin; rapscallion halflings; crazy tinkery gnomes. Humans on the other hand have a wide variety of options and are the server "default"  which makes them feel more diverse.

I don't know that there is really a way to change this. It feels intentional, like the DMs prefer that 70-80% of the PC population is human.

[SunrypeSlim]

I like halflings, so I'd play more halflings if there were a halfling deity.

[putrid_plum]

Abala has said the DM team prefers that mostly everyone is human and it's really the biggest turn off for me in COR and I think the reason I don't play much personally.  I wish there was more appeal and set ups for non-humans as humans are so boring in my view.

[VanillaPudding]

I don't really understand this at all. If you want to play a non-human then play one. There is a large group of halflings, there are Elves around, and Dwarves have a whole awesome ring to themselves for the most part with awesome lore.

There is an entire custom race of Gnomes (recondite)
Create-a-faith ability for religious aspects of any race
massive sibilant lore for monster races
customer lycan races for mongrelwoods
GIGANTIC druidic themes to investigate on any race

You can -very easily- live outside of the Peerage, whether in Ticker, the drips, the ponds, or otherwise and have access to everything you need.

Just because the Peerage is designed around humans does not mean you are limited in any form. It's GOOD that the majority are humans, but even half of the people in the peerage shame themselves by wandering around with "lesser" races!!

[Egon the Monkey]

VP: I think you don't understand it because you enjoy rolling up your own concepts, and could basically have fun in a paper bag. I enjoy playing to a brief that seems interesting, and encouraging others to get in on that brief.

There is a lot of space for non-human concepts, but there's not a lot of support or foundations. As you've noticed, there's more immediate support for monster races (Rat Raft, outcast camp, kobold hideout, goblin hideout) than there are for say, elves. To the point you were in an elf group that built their own lore up. And then eventually fell over after some heavy PVP losses, not leaving anything substantial for the next Elf group to build on.

For example, one of next PCs was probably going to be a dwarf. Until I realised it would be just so much easier to get people involved with his goal if I made him a human, as I could recruit from anywhere. Whereas a Dwarf would be much more limited and not gain much of interest unless there was already a strong dwarf PC faction at the time.

The Dwarves really don't "have an entire Ring to themselves". They have a shrine and a tollbooth, and fewer NPCs than House Glitt. Not even a spawn point or a merchant there, let alone plot or their own quest.  And again, it's the Racial Faction Problem. You get a small, often  OC organised group that goes on for a bit then falls to bits.  I think you're right to notice it though, because if there were more groups in the 98-95 area that were independent of the Peerage and could provide things they relied on, we'd have more interesting conflict and plot. Not least as it would showcase how 99 is a small corner of a big ruined city.

Yes, you can play outside the Peerage, but look at the list of Associations. Look at the focus of DM interaction on the Peerage, and the way that belonging there has few downsides. It doesn't exclude you from a bunch of stuff. You can play in Ticker, but it's still subordinate to Peerage Prestige-wanging. I actually forgot completely about the Knaves as they just dropped into my "outlaw" category, with the exception they get voice-changer masks.

As for your list.

• Recondites are a Recondite-only faction.
• Creating your own faith is just an admission there's nothing built into the setting that serves the purpose. It only really lasts as long as the group, even if it does become a canonical Small God.
• Your last three options are all Monstrous/Outlaw concepts

Why is it good, in your opinion, that the majority of PCs are human? We've got a high-fantasy setting with low-fantasy narratives. I feel that strong niches for non-human characters are a good anchoring points to encourage players not to default to Grim Beige Game Of Thrones Wannabe and to play a wider set of personalities. They're a way to put an easy spin and differing set of ideals on a character.

EDIT: So as not to spam replies, in response to the below:
The Toyfolly don't count as a Gnome faction to me as they're clearly the Gnome Mafia, and a solid antagonist for Gnome PCs. You can see how terrified all their merchants are. They'd be the perfect enemy for a Gnome PC faction.

[in hoc signo vinces]

Perhaps we could take a leaf out of EFUR's pages:

• The Elves had the Gardens of the Lost, and their own Seldarine-centric plots which eventually concluded in the apotheosis of an elven PC. On top of that, the elves had their own political place in Sanctuary, being a voting bloc, pursuing an 'elven agenda' and seeking to elect their own elven directors.
• The Halflings had the Scrappers, which were fairly competent scavengers of the Machine (many prominent Scrapper PCs, such as Booker). They were politically involved, and also had their own deity-plot, with memorable PCs such as Kora Bramblefoot pushing it.

We do not really have something analogous to these in EFU:COR, I think, other than perhaps the Gnomes with the Toyfolly and the Dwarves with 94. However, those do not seem very well developed.

The emphasis, in my humble opinion, should be accessibility to new PCs and players new to the server.

For example, elves in the Gardens can rest for free, and are protected within, along with other rooms and corridors and specific Elf-centric NPC advisors. It was also very accessible, and a completely new elf PC can immediately get in with the Gardens, as compared to the Dwarves (94 being a problem for immediate access) or the Gnomes (do the Toyfolly even have a HQ for PCs to rest and join up in? I don't know. I don't think a new Gnome PC would either!).

Consider these possible additions to EFU:COR:

• A dwarven embassy from the Bulwark in Tickertowne, with an NPC talking about the Ancestors and talking about how he's here to establish a trade route, but with hints of ulterior agendas.
• A perpetual Seam maintained by an Elven wizard or multiple Elven wizards (hehe, call them Brightmage for Summer), or some secret Elven magicks (consider the Underweald), but in a more accessible place such as Tickertowne (or the Commons?), with only elves permitted to enter. It leads to a woodland realm shrouded in perpetual twilight, causes Seam-sickness to all non-Elves, and provide certain hooks for elven plots (Knights of Autumn, the Prince of Winter, if I recall...?).

I think that they may make the server and the chapter a richer place, and make it easier for new players to get involved with non-human races.

All of VP's ideas are good, but they are not very accessible for new PCs or players new to the server, who may not be comfortable at all with living outside the hubs, yet.

[Secutor]

This might not sound fun to some, and definitely not what was plum is looking for, but I think a setting-friendly option to play non-humans would be to accentuate and complement the lore surrounding xenophobia. Something that often occurs among authoritarian societies with cultural norms regarding exclusivity in power and acceptance, is that minorities will be given the option to oppress their own people for a modicum of sanctioned safety or power.  Basically, a collaborator.

Generally, collaborators are cast in historical narrative as turncoats: cruel, dishonest, and operating on the brink of cognitive dissonance. But, it might be a fascinating role to play and expand on in a fantasy setting that very intentionally features racial discrimination and politics as centerpieces. A huge initial challenge for someone interested in this framework, but isn't interested in playing an evil or overtly vicious persona, would be to design and play a likable collaborator, which convincing those with power (to whom you are an Other) to give you access to their resources and be somewhat socially accepted. 

Such a character could create a framework for other collaborators to easily fit in, and aggressively recruit or oppress non-humans (on behalf of humans). Just an idea.

[creme bulette]

I am going to be the debbie downer here, but every suggestion that is being made sounds like an interesting character concept that someone could potentially pursue with long-term, server shifting goals. These suggestions do not sound like things that DMs should take the time forcing on the players and implementing when, in all likelihood, they will do nothing to change or shift the the way players OOCly perceive the prospect of playing subraces.

I would argue that the mainstay PCs that "In Hoc" mentions above were not born from the lore the DMs presented, but adapted to it and made it flourish - rather than the other way around. These were players who did cool things and affected the server in interesting ways because of the things they did. Is it so awful to be in a situation where engaging players convince small groups to play with them by doing interesting things? Yes, the groups tend to die out afterwards, but I've always perceived EFU as a server where the status quo is briefly (and violently!) interrupted before things shift back to normalcy with some small adjustments.

The server is already large and even while activity is "up" right now, there are not enough people or DMs to actively engage in both Ticker Square and Peerage Ward. Why would we segregate things further and add even more factions? My honest opinion is that the separate hubs is a mistake already, and I would prefer Peerage Ward and all its houses to be the driving "norm." But this is coming from someone who has not been able to find a lot of traction whenever I attempt to make Ticker Square PCs, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[Jubek]

Try creating connections. Inspire your concept from creativity instead of hate

While the tactic of "oppressing a specific type of character" is a possible avenue to take, my opinion is that there is already a lot of that. There is a saying that goes like this : "Too much is not enough". The current theocracy atmosphere already does that, and there hasn't been that much opposition going on against it. It may not be the best course of action to repeat the same situation, expecting one day there'll be a sudden change and it'll make sparks.

While this is not necessarily bad, I'd advise to go in a different direction. Instead opting to constantly put groups of people down in hopes they'll get angry, go on with wild, weird concepts. Ticker Square has been mostly that pro-merchant playground until now. But what it hasn't been seen as yet, strangely, is Tickertown is a fertile soil for eccentric factions. Give it a big bazaar feeling. Have small groups try their hand in getting their corner of the town there. Have these 2-3 PCs that follows the dogma of a Sigil faction.  These 3 elves worshipping the Divine Alphabet. These 3 Rashemi that started their own lodge.

This does two things :
-It shows you that there's room for anything you can come up with. You just have to think of it, and assume it.
-It creates COMMUNICATION AND INTERACTION.

"EFU is best when it's full of hate"
Well, I'm sorry but there are other ways to create stories, too. It's time to take a little bit of everything, now.


Mold what you need, let ideas simmer in your head, create roots

The Peerage Ward is set in stone. It's a very very clean environnment. It's a world of knights living in castles, no matter what you do. Have the knight society do their thing in the Ward. Have THE OTHERS mold Ticker to what they need. You don't need to have a space on the WIKI to get recognition. Have a book about your faction on the forums, and start a few topics about it. That's as good as a WIKI mention. Playing for the audience is not what matters, it's the characters you get to interact daily with that does matters. 

Like some others said, what I believe players would need right is solid foundations. A personal observation is that, people use much less the forums today than it used to be before it. Why? Because as soon as you have an idea, you type it in the chatroom and get done with it. When you don't have a chatroom, what do you? You let it simmer in your head. The moment you write it in the words, you try to have something  that has substance and make you enthusiast, because you're kinda carrying a project, even if it's just the first steps, you're making it official. And you don't want to write 2-3 lines (like you'd do in a chatroom) because it would look like a meager contribution.

My tip on this would be : Use the forums more often. You can leave a legacy that may be picked up, or serve as an inspiration for other players, later. What you write on a post has more chances to stay on your mind too. You've put time to it, so you remember it better.

Create roots for your concepts. Don't make it fleeting.

B**tch all you want against the traditionnal vedui cousin and the sometimes cliché faiths of the forgotten realms...it gives your character roots to grow from. Two lines isn't enough. Start with 10, then build over time.

What you write, is stuff you assume.
What you write, is stuff you don't have to focus on as much because you don't want to forget it.
What you write, is stuff you can let go afterwards and apply your energy on new ideas.

By the way. Long text doesn' mean good. It only has to be meaningful for an idea. That's all.

For people who may think "Who are you to say that, we didn't hear much about your Yemani thing".
I had my fun with several people. You just didn't hear about it.


It doesn't have to last long.

You're on a server that was specifically made to level up fast and get decent gear fast. It's not leveling up that takes time. It's dying, de-leveling and re-leveling. So get your level 6-7, play that story, and don't force yourself on what doesn't make you enthusiastic anymore.

P.S. - There aren't 2 hubs. There are 3. Ticker and Ponds could somehow get connected. And the have a LAWFUL hub and a CHAOTIC hub. And create variants from within, instead or very distinct places.


EDIT

After a discussion I've just had
Peerage has a culture. Ticker doesn't. Give it a culture. Lively, and varied.

[Egon the Monkey]

Secutor: The point I'm trying to make here is that as soon as you get deeper into the Rings (even to the Bulwark), its clear that 99 becomes increasingly isolated and irrelevant. To pick a great quote from Firefly: "Sad little king of your sad little hill". There's what I see as a missed opportunity so far to populate more rings with majority non-humans and really flip the power balance for Peerage PCs. Give them an increasing sense of alienation the more they push away from their decadent, neat Ward. A worrying knowledge that the King is not playing by the same rules that the Peerage claims.

Creme bulette: I don't think it's forcing anything on players if you write a basic species brief for elves/gnomes/halflings etc. Giving a few rules actually promotes creativity because you have a jumping-off point for your ideas. As opposed to "You can do anything! Be Creative!" which means that nobody has a common touchstone for what a given culture means.

Honestly, I think that if you have Fantasy Racism in a setting, the best way to do it is to have humans as the oppressed class. That way, the default PC is proactively pushing up against a system just by by succeeding. And there's an incentive to choose a non-default PC race for social power. The King is one of the best mysterious fantasy antagonists I've seen in a game, but is largely not framed as The Enemy and given widely available means to undermine him.

But that's what we've got, and that's fine. So I think that giving more space for non-human concepts to join forces as powerful as the Peerage is important. They don't have to be equal in terms of ground held, they just need to have some power base that means the Peerage can't roll over them with knights. Which is why I used nautical halflings as an example.

[Flagon]

I have to agree that the Peerage is the only real hub right now.

Ticker has a plot for independence right now (Which, from player and DM reactions in discord, seems to be boring to a lot of people) but be as it may it still doesn't have a real identity. It's intentionally bland in order to be the generic player start (At least it seems that way). The peerage, on the other hand, is both flavorful and presents a lot of RPing opportunities.

I think a hub for non-human characters would be good, especially if it has a defined identity and rules. I like playing humans, usually as an intro to any setting, but non-human characters afford far more color and interest to me.

[Jubek]

A Discord discussion...

at 14:24
That's religion though
Culture for me is more the mores of a place
at 14:24
Is religion part of culture?
14:24
It can be
But I believe it's more important to consider
What soft rules or suggestions it gives
The new triune religion has a few nice things to that effect, where it has heirarchies and small things people do
Like their own holy sign
"Don't carry weapons in the ward"
The archivists give a final word on stuff
14:25
So it has culture.
14:26
Yes, exactly
It has cultural norms and weight to it
14:26
Behavioral expectations, if you will
I def like how developed it is
I would like for there to be alternate options with similar development
14:26
A french, a german and an american won't behave the same way. That's culture.
The Triurne is good.
Whats isn't...
...is how it puts down an already dying creative playground.
I mean...who the hell are you oppressing? There are no other official cults\nonhuman races...!
It's not that much of a move if the oppressed people are mostly NPCs...!
So...create culture.
Like I said on my topic : You don't have to write lengthy stuff.
Just write it down.
14:28
Exactly
I feel it needs a counterpart that's also official
To the ward and the triune
Ticker is, regrettably, boring
The Awoken concept
It's just
weird, and clashy, I feel
at 14:37
You know what's ironic?
A new player will probably choose to play an awoken, because it has roots he-she is familiar with.
Truth is : An awoken should probably be played by a veteran of the server because it means you have nobody, no NPC to back you up, and must create everything by yourself.
14:38
yep
14:39
Hell, I have played one of the most popular faiths of the server, and see how I had to create stuff to make the Yemanis more than just two lines of text.
So imagine someone that doesn't even have this small amount of support IG.
So. Culture is everything.
Heck.
Roleplaying is portraying a personality.
What influences the most personality?
Culture.
Your family has a culture, your friend has one, there's a culture present where you work. Religion, values, beliefs is part of culture.
So you can't roleplay much if you don't have culture. :slight_smile:

[Jubek]

@Egon the Monkey: You're written a very thoughtful post on my topic about faith, there. It fits perfectly what's being discussed here, too.

https://www.efupw.com/forums/index.php?topic=700112.msg728797#msg728797

[Egon the Monkey]

Flagon: I think part of that is because Ticker's driving force has always been GROAT, which isn't particularly exciting. it's in unrestricted supply (unlike Prestige, where the Dispensary and Gladiators only pay out to the winner), and breaking social mores won't take it away.  Whereas the Peerage allows for gladiator fights, Dispensary and duels as fairly major means to command Prestige. And you can lose Prestige by breaking the rules. And on a server where 'Violent PVP Drama' and 'DM Attention' are valuable meta-currency, having your IC currency link into that is a big deal.

Plus, Ticker's rebellion didn't make much sense. If it threw off the Peerage by force of arms, within living memory, then what happened to all the armed forces? It's claimed in the wiki pager for Peerage Attitudes "there was never any battle" in which case it needed some sort of economic leverage that PCs could be actively involved in maintaining. For example, control over goods that the Peerage would starve or riot without.
Ticker never had anything the Peerage depended on, so it never had a key resource for PCs to protect or fight over.

Having a hub where you can't just openly beat up or oppress your rivals with DUELLO is very much advantageous as you gain a place where PvP crushers can be a fish out of water. The more lawless oldschool Ticker didn't have much distinction from the Peerage in that way. They were just a more honest sort of thuggery, without the Fantasy Racism.