If you'll bear with me, I'd like to take a moment to try and articulate why I feel that EfU:A isn't living up to my own expectations. Understand that I'm not trying to rock the boat, put down the hard work the DMs have done, or convince anyone that the server is somehow worse than it was before, or no longer fun to play on.
The purpose of this thread is for me to express as well as I can, something that I feel ought to at least be addressed in an open and thoughtful way. Believe me when I say I would like my mind to be changed about this; as well, that I'm not certain whether the actual problem is with the server itself, or if I've just grown disenchanted with the nature of PW:Story servers in general.
Since EfU, EfU:A has changed in a number of substantial ways. One in particular: it doesn't feel like a high-fantasy setting anymore. the EfU:A setting has turned the Forgotten Realms from a vibrant and magical place, into the 'Dark Age of Feudal Politics'.
I have personally been unable to find myself interested in any of the currently established factions. I have a hard time explaining it. Perhaps I need to give them a fairer chance, but I think I can best put it this way: The Factions of Sanctuary each stood for something. They had some sort of moral high-ground which characterized them.
The Watch, tasked with the impossible defense of the city against the faceless black.
The Seekers, seeking Freedom at ANY cost.
The Spellguard, Knowledge and Control, through deception, oppression, and carefully calculated demonstrations of Power.
I confess, my view on the current factions of EfU:A is likely one of ignorance. I see it thus: Who the Watch, Spellguard, and Seekers were, and what they wanted was immediately obvious, even during the Alpha stage of Sanctuary. They each had their own romantic charm, which drew people in. Here is what I see from EfU:A's established factions:
The Order: Dogmatic Good. They'll, I dunno, bust heads if you get in the way. Defend the Colony.
The Stygian Armada: Lawful Evil, I guess? Money, the chance to kill stuff.? Defend the Colony.
House Sharboneth: Neutral, Make the Colony successful. Defend the Colony.
Crudely put, I know. There is surely more to the story then that. I HOPE there is. But the factions don't seem to have any actual stake in the survival of the Colony. They haven't got a compelling reason to care about the colony's future. Therefore, I haven't got a compelling reason to care about any of them.
If any of them were to disappear by plot, or be retconned out of the setting, I can't see myself expressing anything but apathy, or perhaps cautious optimism.
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But the thing that bothers me more about the setting, is the focus on politics, over adventure. I know there is still adventure to be had by some, but it seems (again, from my ignorant position) that the DM team is aggressively trying to herd people into the settings' factions, and thereby reinforcing the political aspect of the server, which I personally find to be a drudge. I can't say that I've experienced true immersion in the setting at all yet, except in the early days. (Boohoo, I know. Whatever!)
I know people will try to point at specific instances of adventure and tell me "Look! adventure isn't dead!", and hey, you're not wrong.
I just don't get the feeling of playing in a Fantasy Setting anymore. It seems to be an island chain populated entirely by humans, doing human things like building a city (and it doesnt really feel much like a city, either). The humans are overwhelmingly faceless and boring. Outside the human settlements are some nasty animals, but only a few of them are particularly interesting. Then there are some orcs and goblins and kobolds thrown in like a tiny pinch of salt on some kind of dish that needs a lot more salt than that.
The Mist Ogres are very cool, but they aren't enough. The other monsters custom to EfU are very interesting, but range from redundant to pathetic. Assassin Vines,Yellow Musk Creepers, Gibbering Mouthers, Howlers, etc. All are very cool, but none of them feel like they actually make the island a threat to the people living on it.
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But really, tell me what the overall theme of the server is these days.
In Old EfU, you could ask that question, and I would tell you without hesitation that the theme of the server was survival. Ask me now, and I'll tell you that the theme is Feudal Politics, or High Court, or something like that.
Does that actually appeal to people? I suppose it must. I know DangerousDan seems to enjoy this stuff, and he's allegedly a person, so others must, too.
I've felt bad my whole time writing this, because I feel like I'm taking the piss out of the server, complaining about the things people have worked hard on. Marcus Aurelius said that when you complain, all you're doing is hacking and destroying. I can see that it's true, but I don't consider this to have been a rant, or complaining. I'm trying to see who else feels the way I do, to see if maybe there really is a problem, if it isn't just me.
Perhaps I really have simply become disenchanted with PW story servers in general. No, of course I don't think showering everybody with +3 magic items and epic level monsters is the way to go. I'm not convinced that anything can or will or should be done to change the way the server is right now. My hope with this post, is that I get some thoughtful responses that go beyond "You're wrong on every point, gtfomyserver" (I find it disappointing that I'm even worried about this reaction being an issue). I hope also, that I may have helped articulate some of the frustrations of other people.
I'm certain lengthy nostalgia posts are part of the solution, somewhere.
Its funny, but from the DM perspective, I see this as almost the exact opposite of your views, Kot.
We try to emphasize the politics because there really -is none-.
PC Banner factions with stake in Politics are minimal.
PCs seeking magistrate/courtseats/etc are minimal.
PCs joining factions for power/prestige/etc are minimal.
I for one love the politics. That's why most of my forum posts as of late have been about joining factions.
Regarding factions, Yes. Things are not as black and white as they were in EFU.
There is a glorious shade of grey between everything to let PC's influence things. I for one love it, and know some PCs do, but if that is an issue then it is something we will have to discuss.
I'd much rather have a faction where the superiors are more morally ambiguous and not so dead-set on goals, allowing more PC interaction.
EFU got to the point where you could close your eyes and point at a Spellguard agent, and likely guess what he put on his application. Same with the Seekers.
If you want it black and white, I'll gladly oblige.
The House of Sharboneth as a whole is all about monetary obtainment. Why is an IC thing to pursue, but OOCly they are here, trying to hold this colony together, to build and maintain an economic growth. Its Armsmen are here to keep peace, despite their smaller military force. The Retainers are here to keep the House prominent in the eyes of the citizens.
The Stygian Armada is a group of elite, cuthroat, filthy, seedy, morally ambiguous mercenaries. They're known to enlist an entire legion of Saughin (Shark-men) Monsters that they unleash on their foes with mosterous ferocity. Their business here is, yes, monetary, but for completely different means than the Sharboneths (Also to be determined IC).
Looking at those two factions I can see how you would see that as "Defend the colony". But the fact of the matter is its the reasons behind that, where the ideology lay, that make them dynamic factions.
House Sharboneth is here for their own interests. The Stygians are here for their own interests.
The Spellguard and Seekers have been ridiculously romanticized. Having been in both factions as a PC I can tell you yes, there was alot of awesome conflict but there's A) No reason EFUA can't obtain that and B) Not every seeker/SG conflict was a historic tale of legend.
If we made an EFU list like you made the EFUA one, It'd be just as cynical.
Seekers: Wander underdark looking for the way, Kick the shit out of Spellguard, Talk shit about the Council.
Spellguard: Protect the colony, Wander around the machine, Beat up Seekers, Try to control politics.
The beauty of EFU and EFUA Alike is that it is in the hands of PCs to shape things.
Sometimes DMs run things other times PCs take initiative on things and change them.
The conflict that brewed between the Spellguard and Seekers was, yes, begun by the DMs. Just as we've begun it here with our factions. PCs have picked up on it from time to time, but in the end for things to truly click it has to be on both ends.
We've got a handful of DMs and dozens upon dozens of players.
If PC's want things changed they have to meet us half way. As a DM I know I for one am always glad to see factions boom because yes, I enjoy politics and conflict. As a PC I loved it too.
EFUA has infinitely more grey-area for PC's to develop on their own. There's just as much danger and chaos, but at the end of the day its what you the player makes of it.
To get back to the first point you made though, Politics over adventure? Surely you jest. I've seen some of the areas on this server, as I know you have, and there's amazing adventure to be had. A PC in either the Sharbs or the Stygians taking up awesome feats of adventure is always noticed by the DMs. Just like Non-faction PCs taking up adventure is noticed.
As for the area beyond the Colony seeming "Faceless", To some extent this is true, but to another extent its false.
Stargazers, The Bog, The Wyvernwater, The Mountains, The Webbed Woods Forests, the Desert. All of these places have present and past plots, as well as future. Far more than Underdark did at any rate, in my opinion.
There's nothing that says you can't join a faction -for- adventure. In fact I imagine most DMs would find it of interest.
So long as it was -done well-. Adventure is not "Questing". Adventure is finding new areas. Finding new allies. Finding new foes.
The Sharbs and Stygians are in an arms-race for resources. Perhaps it hasn't been articulated well enough to the rest of the populace but in the DM Factions it is stressed greatly.
Adventure is how you find those. Untapped mines. Untapped Forests. Etc.
Adventure is alive and well on EFU. So alive and well that we've taken to trying to boost our DM factions to see people adventuring -for a reason-.
Tit for tat on the lengthy posts. Hopefully it helped with your concerns/gripes. Throw me a PM here or on IRC if there's anything else you need.
I agree with a lot of what was said here. The factions all look like blurry versions of each other. No clear cut lines between any of them.
The Seekers were a thorn in everyone's side because they were Chaotic Good, do good regardless of who you piss off.
Watch was do good, but you're hands are tied in a lot of ways.
Spellguard was exert control at every opportunity possible and make sure that everyone there knows THEY run the place.
Gray Druid Circle was openly against the spellguard and their animatrons, that was their schtick.
Society: disenfranchised crusaders fighting against the darkest and most dangerous creatures in the Underdark.
Council: make laws, but everyone knew they were puppets to the other factions.
Right now, the factions are all: exert control but don't really hate other factions because we all have the goal to 'defend the colony'. We have a strong druid and nature faction which, to be honest, is probably the best faction we have.
The other thing I feel is missing is that the server itself lost it's overall goal as a whole module. The Underdark setting had all the subplots and mysteries all (even if falsely so) tied into a larger umbrella idea of ESCAPE to back home.
These islands should be treated almost as like Gilligans Island and Lost combined with D&D, but with no interaction from the outside world.
Sanctuary NEVER had random sailors that just showed up from other parts of the underdark. That realm was far too dangerous for that. So when visitors did arrive, it was a HUGE deal.
In this setting we have Old Port, and Sharboneth and the 900 Brothers and countless armadas and shipping companies, coming and going from these islands as if its part of some established city-state. And in an established city-state, little events that would rock the world of a survivalist world become passe and overlooked details.
For godssakes, we've all be sucked into this island for no reason or been shipwrecked for an unknown reason and NOT A SINGLE PERSON CARES. We're all like "Oh, I just got sucked to some place thats not home away from all my life, family, belongings, wealth, power....um. Okay. No big deal." What?! No one would react so uncaring about those things. Sure a few would, but everyone? No way.
No one is trying to get back to their homeland. No one is fighting for survival. No one (or an extreme few) are trying to figure out WHY we were all brought here or what powers the teleporter. There is no DM Faction for this the way the Seekers and Spellguard existed in this capacity. The Spellguard wanted the secrets of the machine and Animatrons, the Seekers wanted to find a way out: Both groups goals required them to find out more about the settlement these hapless adventurers now find themselves stuck in.
The mystery and danger of the Nightrisers was intriging, but nothing became of it. Now the nature factions have two rival factions, but again, it doesn't openly involve anyone not in a nature faction.
I agree that a lot of what Mort and RWG said is true, the thing is, its not coming across to everyone like what you described. I read the forums, I interact with players from the factions. But the idea of financial greed for a faction's goal....that's kinda lame if every faction has that same goal aside from Colony defense.
The comment about the seekers fighting the spellguard, etc was good because it pitted two factions against each other (at the very least) and non faction members took sides. Right now I don't see the Stygians or the Sharboneths, who both want wealth, really at each others throats. Nor do I see the order trying to actively and publicly oust corruption in the two groups.
now that I've just given myself a mark of evil-eye syndrome from those who've put in a lot of work, I'll give a few suggestions that could bring back the intensity and remove the fat.
IDEA #1
Have the teleporter cease functioning for a short time. No more new characters created for like a week or something. In that time, have a massive server event that decimates the population, NPC's included (since most of them look like merchants but don't do anything), and thus bring back the survival idea.
IDEA #2
have a hurricane hit the isles. Sorry, but islands have these at least once a year, sometimes twice in the same season. This would shut the colony off from the outside (ships wont sail into or survive such a storm) and could cause massive damage to the structures around due to high winds and flooding. This would, force a period of rebuilding and survival instincts. During this, several major NPC's and PC's should die allowing a 'changing of the guard' to sort of happen and possibly breathe life into the server.
IDEA #3
The island becomes covered in perpetual darkness until the players find out what it is and how to stop it. In this time, werewolves terrorize the ziggurat on a regular basis, almost to the point of scaring the population not to wander outside of its walls. This could also be the time to introduce a new, super-villain like a Red Dragon or something so that even after the darkness is gone, the danger still remains. This new Villain also terrorizes any who approach the isles (works best with a dragon since it can fly) thus sealing us off from outside supplies and people.
IDEA #4
An earthquake. Islands typically form along areas of great seismic activity. Such an event could cause tsunami's (hurling ships far inland, imagine a ship crashing into the midst of the Starwood!), cracks in the islands surfaces which could release any number of demonic/underdark/hellish creatures onto the isles. Not only would people die in this event, but it could be linked to a greater evil somehow. It would also open the idea up for new areas of exploration on the server, including potential cavern, lava, windy-cavern-type places.
Hope this has been a constructive addition to this conversation.
I don't have too much time to respond right now, but I'll say what I can for what little it is worth.
Your point on the factions is fairly true in my eyes. This kind of relates to some previous discussions really, but it seems as if one of them was removed or swallowed up by another it would not change anything major on the server. This leaves a feeling that they are not truly important in the overall story of the server.
It often feels like I'm swimming against the tide here, but I'm not really sure why. The setting almost feels claustrophobic, in a sense, making it somewhat static in nature. For example, I don't think a new player from two months ago would notice much of anything different than a new player logging in today. While there are obviously things different, the scale of any change seems to be rather small.
I don't know, I have a hard time saying what I mean so it's probably better I don't write too much more.
I'll respond in more detail later but I definitely do not agree that the emphasis is on politics.
Adventure and Building is probably the two big themes.
Crazy creepy island chain filled with all kinds of secrets, dungeons, weird islands, oppressive nobles, ancient passes, varieties of terrain, hideous monsters? Sounds like a great place to be an adventurer.
And then the town itself, if Sanctuary was all about taking a (relatively) thriving settlement in the Underdark and watching it implode over the course of two years - what we're doing up here is taking a completely empty ruin and building it into what will hopefully eventually be a real city.
More later maybe. I do agree that our factions have never quite fallen into place.
While I understand a lot of Tenkipoo's points, I really do not see this "blurred factions" thing.
House Sharboneth, is a Noble House devoted to "taming" Ymph and turning the Colony into a respectable and well-off city. They do such through politics and battling its foes, and they are very clearly a faction devoted to what is best for the Colony, as they -are- the Colony.
The Armada, however, is a Mercenary Group devoted solely to making money. They do not want what is best for the Colony, and they care only for wealth. They are unscrupulous, they are vicious, and they are mercenary, and they are for the most part detached from politics unless it benefits them fiscally.
The two, in my eyes, are not in the slightest inter-changable, and going from a servant of the Armada to a servant of Sharboneth, I have seen the massive difference in ideals and motives of each faction. House Sharboneth is a thoughtful, dedicated and disciplined group devoted to keeping the Colony safe and promoting its best interests. The Stygian Armada is a ruthless, heartless company whose aim is solely to uphold its own interests and squeeze money out of every pore of the Colony.
More!
The idea of desperately turning the Colony back into Sanctuary is silly. Just because Sanctuary was really cool because it was isolated doesn't make EfUA instantly awful because it's not alone. Howland sums that up very nicely, but some of this really seems to be purely pining for the UD. Don't spoil the fact there's a really awesome server right here because you still want the old one!
I personally prefer the greedy factions. The Seekers, everyone wanted three things; Find the Way, stop the Spellguard and stop Corruption. The Spellguard were; Exert military and political power, assist the Watch when prudent and stop any threat to the Spellguard's power. In these limited goals, only so many characters can appear! Okay, the factions now are still limited in terms of alignment, but that's not really terribly important! If you're evil, you won't want to join the Order.
And apart from that, they're not limited at all. Are you an evil, greedy bastard willing to work to the scheme of things to get what you want done? Join House Sharboneth or the Armada! Are you a noble, good soul devoted to defending the cause of righteousness and protecting the innocent? House Sharboneth or the Order appeals to you! But, as either of these two, are you also crazy racist? Want to get rid of Gobsquat? Hey, still all three factions open! Want to try and promote your God, make sacrifices (of evil things or holy warriors), and build a church to them! Still all three (assuming your God is the Three for the Order)
The factions are on EfUA means to an end. They don't come with central goals to base your PCs around, but your PCs already come fully fitted with those! You can be a lot of non-chaotic things (other than Elf) and still find a place in those factions, and for everything else? PC factions are fully encouraged to take part in actively creating the world (look at Proverson Mercantiles), and even if you're not interested in factions, there are still political positions like Magistrate up for grabs!
And this is all just inside the Colony, I'm not mentioning the Criminal Underworld, the Cult of Rot or the Stewards of the Ark! My point is, this is EfUA, not EfU, and you have to ask yourself: Do you not like this server, or do you just miss the old one? Because the old one was awesome, but the story's moved on, and this is the Archipelago.
And we like to party.
I sort of had similar gripes to Kotenku at first, and granted I skimmed over only the initial post, I'm starting to feel pretty unjustified in most of them.
EFUA is overall change to EFU, to which I expect an indefinite amount of people are naturally opposed, and it inevitably has features, better and worse than it's predecesor, that you'll need to adapt to.
One challenge I'd propose to anyone so inclined, is to do this:
Imagine if you were a DM, and trying to build a faction that would suit this particular persistent world really well.
Now, as a player, go forth and build it.
Successful player-run factions are the best. We have some, and there's always the danger of having too many with too few members.
But it'd be great to see some more take off. And not just the evil cult variety or the "Followers of " variety.
Something to keep in mind about EFU:A, is that it really is your (the playerbase's sandbox).
The DM team and myself are going to do what we can to make the place is as awesome as it can be, but for the place to be successful I think the playerbase as a whole needs to take responsibility/work at it themselves too (whether that be making the factions work, pc factions work, bringing in and looking out for new players, including other people, making the place fun, etc.).
Speaking for myself, I'm just not in a position the log the kind of DM time in I used to in EFU.
So, here is EFU:A. It's beautifully built. The bills are paid. Tell us what you need, go forth, and make awesome, my friends.
You get out of the server what you put into it.
Sometimes that works out better for people who have more time, but It really is true.
The people who throw in the most effort to things 9/10 times get the most favorable results.
I think the status quo has a lot of unfufilled potential, but I don't think it will ever be tapped as things are now, tbh.
The 'Problem' with EFU:A is that it is a sandbox. Almost everything I see put it is done so in a way that players can messs around and make something of it and such.
In principle it is a great idea, except 90% of our players would rather stick to one corner of the sandbox and play with an already built sandcastle than to fill a few buckets and make their own.
Most players are content to just quest, RP a bit, and that's that. The few people who do go off with their own buckets and shovels are the ones often showered in DM loot and such, which inevitably leads to envy and such over 'Dm favoritism'.
While that 10% who actually take initiative are well off, most of the players would rather be told what to do, given a set of goals then try to complete them. In my opinion this is why things seem stale; most of the players are followers, not leaders.
Most of the time, at the first sign of DM interaction, (Spice, DM quest, random mob posession, posessed NPC, whathaveyou) I see mixed results. Some people say "FFS now we're going to all die and lose our levels", some say "WOOT, phat loot/XP!", Some people say "Meh", and some people just say "This is going to be awesome". In EFU:A I have noticed a lot more of the DM interaction = XP loss, than anything else. Then again, if all people ever do is quest then all the DMs can really do is spice them.
Why? I talk to some people about this in my backend channels and PMs and such. A lot responses I get from other players are things like; "I don't really want to bother the DMs" or 'They are probably busy with other stuff'' or 'They don't pay attention to me anyways'. Things like that, which are kind of discouraging. Generally speaking I try to get as far as I can without DM interaction when attempting to do something, but sometimes you just need to hit them with a PM and say "This is what I want, would you be interested in running something for it?" From there, the ball can only keep rolling.
Example : The Bounties. I do not think I have ever seen one of the ones against NPCS claimed, because Players for the most part lack the initiative to go out and look, they have misgivings about asking a DM to help, Etc. Unless it is a DM quest that the DM posesses an NPC saying "Oh no there are some dudes that are bad/good! Please assemble a group at to help defeat them!". Which brings us back to initiave/playerbase of followers, etc.
Mind you, the only time I have done this I ended up leading a party to fight the second priestess under the Matron mother of Traensyr or something ridiculous like that. My pc did end up dying but it was still pretty cool. The point is, it is very hard for them to do anything cool for you if they don't know what you want, and the only way for them to know is for you to ask! It is not bothering them, and that is why they are DMs, to help your PC's story be cooler. Don't shy away from them, use them!
I think that Kotenku has brought up some very constructive criticisms that I have even felt in some ways. EfU was a masterful fantasy creation that created healthy faction/PC conflict. Majority of the time, I felt that every action conducted by the player base resulted in some sort of reaction (whether positive or negative to the stability of Sanctuary). When I was playing EfU, I always felt that Sanctuary was hanging together by a thin thread. Additionally, I felt that major shifts on the Server were logical reactions to some sort of IG action (majority of the time). EfU:A, I don’t know if I can say the same thing at this point.
I think Djspectre comments addressed this. Even from within the Sharboneth faction, I felt that just about any ship, faction, organization can pull up start building on the island. Rarely did I ever get a feeling that any of these moves were popular or unpopular with House Sharboneth, which made it quite difficult to RP even within the faction.
My positive contribution to the server is this: Old Port is awesomely done and should be expanded RP wise IG! Any PC’s who has had the privilege of RP’ing in the town would run back to the Colony of Sharboneth and kiss the ground. (i.e. being watched and stalked through the city, merchants scared to death to communicate openly, guards physically escorting us through town to keep an eye on us, insuring we all got on the boat back, etc). Truly awesome.
The Colony of Sharboneth is geographically separated from Old Port., has its own resources (agriculture, fish, precious metals, water, etc). Not to mention the island has a ton of ancient artifacts of wondrous power waiting to be found. I would think this all combined would turn the colony into a rambunctious and independent city state. (Again like Scotland/Ireland was to England back in the day)
I am sure the very smart and supportive PC/DM base will make totally awesome things happen, even if it isn’t my playbook.
Good comments from everyone I think
I can't say I've been playing a lot in recent months, but from my limited experience, I like what Cruzel said. I'm not a leader, I've tried before, with mixed results. I would rather carve out something in a supporting actor role to help elevate someone with amazing goals and ideals (and more time than I could hope to have to play anymore) to something even cooler (everyone needs people like that).
Lately I've gotten lost in the mass of grey areas, trying to find something cool to be/do, and just haven't been able to do it. Blame it on lack of creativity, blame it on my bad work schedule. But judging from this thread, I guess I'm not the only one having this loss of feel of direction.
Here is my own view of the EFU:A DM factions at the Moment, this is only my opinion:
The Stygian Armada: People that some of the colony either love or despise. Their priorities: All about money, honor, and the upper hand in the colony. At the moment though, it seems they are the most powerful faction. They have a stronghold in the gobsquat and Docks. I'd like to see more conflict over areas of the ziggurat and the way House Sharboneth is controlling the land with the Stygians. I'd also want to see more evil acts in the faction and more spying to find out the secrets of the faction.
The royal House Sharboneth: Claimed rulers of the colony, they are thought as tyrants to some. Although they protect the colony, they cannot destroy many of the troubles of the colony. Right now their not in the best shape and don't see much greatness happening in the faction's strength. Their priorities: Protect the colony, do what is best (even if it is bad), and do whatever they can to stay in control.
The Order of the Three: A wild card in the ziggurat politics, they have almost heretical ways on the teaching of the three. Their priorities: Protect the colony, spread the command of the three, obtain the knowledge of the mists in the Isle. What I would like to see is more conflict with the Stygians. As the Stygians are reckless and normally would not care about others. I think that more acts of 'goodness' can be done in the faction.
I think there's an important distinction between "gray areas" and "voids." The Seekers, the Spellguard, the Watch, while all having both relatively clear agendas and some secret aspirations, were not so rigid as to be uniform. There were so many un-Seekery Seekers, plenty of Agents that... needed to be dealt with. Watchmen, both corrupt and zealotrous. Some of these characters were great because they took the basic clear concept and then took it too far, or trying to turn it to their own personal goals.
Not having played or DM'd for almost half a year, I can't comment on whether or not our current factions have any direction, or how "blurry" they are. So I'll leave it at that.
Sandbox doesn't mean PCs who aren't leaders get boned.
You can do a great deal of stuff even if you aren't a "Leader" to influence DM factions, help build PC factions, etc.
One of my favorite PCs of all time was a rogue who I hired to stand around atop the Ziggurat when he was free to tell people to come by and see me at the Hanged Goblin for a Job.
He ended up being one of the coolest rogues ever. Wasn't a leader, but a great support character can make or break a faction.
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/2xZ0H6D9wETo3sSXtAJ.gif)
i think a lot of cronies are way more amusing than leaders, though i guess they're a necessity to the driving force of things
I recognize the gripes being presented here. I can admit to having shared a few of them in the past. But right now, let me tell you, I am 100% optimistic. Not because of the DMs, not because of the PCs, but because of everybody that contributes to EfU:A. How many years has this been going on? Yet it keeps going. There are some slow periods, sure, and sometimes the awesome of the moment is a little hidden. But I think we can all take a tip from Doc Dragon, EfU:A's most active participant in the awesome. Never give up on your dreams, mix it up a little, try something new, and flash a little style where necessary.
EfU:A feels really good to me right now.
Warning-Selfish Trolling to follow:
DJ Specters #3 sounds just right! Exactly what the server needs right now, 30 days of night!!
-End shameless pushing of own agendas..
On factions--
More marked contention and conflict between the three major DM factions would be ideal. Although admittedly out of the loop (having not played in any of them) they seem to be vaguely competitive at the best of times, and all too often on the same side for any sort of meaningful interfactional conflict to broil up at the PC level.
On sandbox/void issue--
More PCs with an actual agenda readily accessible to other PCs and DMs would contribute alot to the health of the server. I realize not everyone is a 'leader', but you don't have to be Gippy-level dynamic to get things rolling. Its all about standing for something, having a goal, and projecting it out (even if its secretive in nature) to the rest of the populace. If you do this with even a small amount of diligence, PCs and DMs will know who you are and what your agenda is.
From there, the rest flows. PCs will know who your PC is, what he believes in, what his agenda is, if they should approach him as an enemy or ally, if they could be of assistance to their own plans, if they should be wary of him in the future, if they should assassinate him right off the bat, etc etc.
And thats just the PC side. DMs who can readily identify a PC and what his/her agenda is can factor them into the larger picture, including them in things planned for the future. For example if a DM knows your PC is a crusading Valkuran, they might throw you a plot bone in the future, when their pirate plot kicks off. If they know you're an archaeologist they can drop hints. If they know you are a professional monster hunter they could have a scared child run past screaming "Wererat! Arrrrrgh!" to tip you off that the slimey wererat PC you've been hunting might be around the area.
Look at all the most 'successful' PCs. Everyone knew what Rinaldo Montezzi or Majre Noguerya or Baldev Cole or Laramie Lathae or Berimund Theodigus or Harold Blake stood for. These PCs had agendas they pursued aggressively, thorugh the slow times and the good. People could rally to them, join them, hate them, love them, plot secretly against them, move overtly to destroy them, factor them into their plans as a possible threat or boon to the cause.
It is out of this milieu of compatible or conflicting agendas that comes all the good things we love to see on EFU, villainous or heroic. Assasinations, blackmail, extortion, confrontation, bravery, bribes, cruelty, valor, secret deals, shattered alliances, betrayal, deception, investigations, revelations.
Whether you're aiming high or low, whether you're a follower or leader, make sure you convey what your PC is all about, and don't ever stop conveying it. Make a splash, and there will be ripples!
Although Kotenku's post is filled with nostalgia, i think he does bring up some valid points.
One: the isle doesn't have that feeling of OMG, i'll be stuck here forever. There's a boat out, all it takes is coins. Your PC has actually no reason to stay on Ymph. If he does, it's because Ymph is as good as anywhere else. There's no 'we can beat the server' challenge now. Even ‘lvl’ wise, it’s so easy to get to lvl8-9, it’s hardly a challenge. Too much items imo.
Two: more, EfUA is supposed to be a sand box, but things started by players were stepped on by DM factions. Two things cought my attention -and not because i cared much, but because players where whining to me about it:
- governement: players trying out to make their own, then being stepped on by Sharboneth. That cooled down many people.
- building things: there's been lots of players 'rp' clearing a place and trying to buid for a month (Delver, for ex.) and the next day the Docks is build by other folks. It’s leaving a sense of ‘why bother’.
If you want players to use the sandbox, you'll need more DMs/players ratio, and actually build what regular players are trying to build. Certainly help the great players, because they make the server better, but don't claim there's a sandbox if it's only available a few more mature/leadership/creative players. Don’t empesize RP and ‘building’ when all it ever ends in is conflict and PC death.
Three: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity. Sure it’s making new areas, but small ones, and i’m sure the players themselve would use the toolset to propose their own small things. And those things could be fought over, destroyed, etc. That’s my idea of a sandbox, at least. For now, the factions i see are mostly questing groups, that pretend to build things, but never really do, and when the leader dies, so does the faction.
Four: Another thing: the structure of the society reminds of ancient Rome, with patricians, citizens, slaves, yet we as players do not have the culture of respect for Higher born people, and this special atmosphere of social hierarchy is lost as soon as the next guy insults some patrician who does not have means of answering according to his rank. Only one or two are up to the rank, but the rest of patricianhoods are just.. empty, imo. Make patricianhood app only imo, with decent goals and better perks behind it. Have the Law enforcing respect to those that make it.
Five: the dominant faction is too blurry. So blurry i've found no one IG that could actually tell my PC if it was true Sharboneth allowed slavery. For various reasons: either they don’t know, or (worst) they don’t care... I'd rather have it pure evil (or pure good), so people are forced to take a stand. Pure evil would certainly be colorful and bring about a real resistance. I’ve seen retainers not knowing if they ‘can’ order Stygians about! People don’t know what to make of Sharboneth: no cult, no deeds of the leader to bring respect or disgust. They are just... here.
Six: visible intrigue between DM factions would be neat, but there's only one main faction to deal with, and the others (Stygian, Order) are just mercenaries with their own agenda, even apparently working for/with the main faction. I’m sure there is intrigue going on, but if so it’s invisible to outside folks. Maybe make a rival house come in? Or have the major military force start to want to gain independance a little? As for secret factions, well, they are secret...
Seven: exploring is tough, and getting to sites of interest is long and dangerous, which discourages exploration. On EfU, players could cross 2.5 areas and be at Mur or Claw Port, and therefore go to the fish isles and stuff. On EfUA, well, it’s wild wild wild, and when you get to that hermit site, or the barbarian camp, or to the desert, it’s time to log off. More safe ‘sites of interest’ would certainly help making teams to head out and explore, imo. Not just camps, which are nice, but which are just on the way things.The Salty Shark inn was nice in that sense, for example, even if far off.
There’s probably more to be said, but as a whole, i understand why some players are still expecting something. That being said, i understand DMs says: don’t wait on DMs, do it yourself. The thing is, some have tried and nothing happens, so they just go back to questing routine with fun rp along the way, which is fun too, but only for so long.
I think the reason that people seem so adamant in believing that there are no DM-faction conflict is because they do not reach the public as most heated debates are done in private or through forum interaction. There are, of course, valid reasons for this, but perhaps more can be done by players to express their opinions and their dislike/appriciation for other factions/policies/and so on. (Almost makes one miss that meddling and scrutinizing “journalist”)
Certainly a lot more can be done to draw other players into the faction’s goals and gripes, and it’s something I intend to work hard on. I personally feel that I have to defend the Order somewhat, because the Order’s members has many times expressed their intentions through fliers and speeches, which seems to me the best way to reach the majority of the player population. I do however, always appriciate advice on how to better reach the players.
As for politics and Courts, as it has been stated before, all it takes for a player to gain a position at the Court is to be the leader of a somewhat influential banner, (correct me if I’m wrong). Albeit I’m not familiar with the banner system, or claiming lands, it seems to be a very cool aspect of the server that is somewhat ignored.
It should also be noted that this is a time of summer “lull”, as people are occupied with finals, wrapping out their current school year and so on. I’ve no doubt that things will change when both DMs and players get more time on their hands.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770the isle doesn't have that feeling of OMG, i'll be stuck here forever. There's a boat out, all it takes is coins. Your PC has actually no reason to stay on Ymph.
Just because being trapped was really cool on EfU, doesn't mean it's needed to make this server cool! EfU was unique in that aspect, and tbh I think going "We're trapped in the Underdark! Oh no we've escaped and now... We're trapped on an Island! :O" would be silly. Similarity to the old server does not mean success.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770governement: players trying out to make their own, then being stepped on by Sharboneth. That cooled down many people.
Dude, Caddies is a PC! Oskar_Maxon is a PC! Sharboneth was -not- just NPCs coming in, it was a ruthless expansionistic in the form of Ortred massing up PC support, stamping out opposition and gaining the favour of an off-shore House! It was a massive, epic tale of politics, tasteful brilliant PvP and intrigue, with players pioneering it!
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770Three: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity
Guild Houses! A massively new part of EfUA, build specifically for this! Factions can survive, factions can flourish, and all they need is a good second in comand and the faction can survive literally flawlessly!
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770Only one or two are up to the rank, but the rest of patricianhoods are just.. empty, imo. Make patricianhood app only imo, with decent goals and better perks behind it. Have the Law enforcing respect to those that make it.
Patrician: Pay for prestige. How does that not invite corruption? It's meant to. It's not paying for Lordship, it's just paying for to be a higher form of citizen. It's just a way for Sharboneth to earn money, by limiting things in this way. They're not Nobles, they're just... Privelidged.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770So blurry i've found no one IG that could actually tell my PC if it was true Sharboneth allowed slavery.
That may've been the case a while ago, but the Politics page in Information presents "Servants" to the entire community publically. It's as clear as daylight that slavery is legal and cool.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770People don’t know what to make of Sharboneth: no cult, no deeds of the leader to bring respect or disgust. They are just... here.
Then make a PC and rock out the faction! Start smashing seditionist skulls, start making it hard for people to not pay attention to you! 100% Character driven.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770visible intrigue between DM factions would be neat, but there's only one main faction to deal with, and the others (Stygian, Order) are just mercenaries with their own agenda, even apparently working for/with the main faction.
All three factions work for the good of the Colony, that doesn't mean they don't fight each-other too. If you're concerned that the Colony doesn't have a blatantly rebel Seeker faction inside it, who cares? There's a blatantly rebel Seeker faction outside! Not all conflict in the colony has to be bloodshed and assault whenever you can get away with it. In my opinion, the contemplative, thoughtful chess-like machinations of every faction, be they application or PC run, makes the server feel a lot more like an actual city than the higgledy-piggledy mess forced to make a home in one old ruin.
Well, yeah, but the Seekers seem to have changed into a DM-controlled threat, not a PC-available faction. There is a small rebel PC group that Crimson's trying to encourage, but it's rather harder up here IMO to play outlaws without so many real "bases" like Mur, the Shark, Thomas's Shop etc with services and NPCs, not just empty camps. Places a non-stealth or mage PC can get around from.
What would be great is if the Seekers were definitively noted as a DM faction in the lines of the Old Port Crook faction, for prominent rebellious PCs, with a "Don't find us, we'll find you" approach to the faction. A similar approach to that of the Rot Cult, with only a few PCs heavily involved, and maintaining a level of RP in between big DM led conflicts.
I have what is primarily a selfish point to make, but aren't all of our perspectives affected by what we have experienced?
Let'splayforfun's point:
QuoteThree: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity. Sure it’s making new areas, but small ones, and i’m sure the players themselve would use the toolset to propose their own small things. And those things could be fought over, destroyed, etc. That’s my idea of a sandbox, at least. For now, the factions i see are mostly questing groups, that pretend to build things, but never really do, and when the leader dies, so does the faction.
I'm not sure how to say this, but I'd like to see PC factions get a few tools designed to sustain some semblance of permanence. Despite the initial "success" of the Lathanderite church, and the rewards in XP/DM loot/hawt plot hooks to some of the
individuals of the faction, the faction as a whole could have benefited from some more "help".
I really enjoyed playing Harold Blake, and thought the DMs gave him plenty of attention and RP rewards by being appointed to the Council. But in reality, it didn't help the faction much. He didnt' get any money, it didn't get them a faction HQ or do anything with NPC commoners or anyone to reflect the "influence" of the Lathanderite Church that we worked hard to generate.
To be constructive here are some suggestions:
1. I think DM faction PCs should get better gear than most other PCs (which I think is reflected by plate mail for the Order and Armada- but I think it should be 2-3 things - perhaps including good weapons).
2. I'd like to see successful player factions that the DMs really like be rewarded with faction HQs, and NPCs. We were really excited to get an NPC associated with our faction, but then he never showed up/did anything.
3. Give player factions the option to become a DM faction requiring an application and with faction perks. To me, this would be the ultimate reward for a well played PC and faction.
The RP in the faction was amazing IMO, and we had a very server-specific goal to combat the undead/Nightrisers. We worked hard to curry influence with PCs and NPCs with very little impact other than Blake making the Court. This had very little impact other than some cool RP for my character alone.
So my suggestion is that the DM staff rewards player factions more, and if interest in a DM faction wanes, let it die on the vine and turn the best PC factions into DM factions. This would reward all the hard work that went into it by the players on the server, and make it feel like it is OUR sandbox.
Wouldn't a Lathanderite DM faction working to destroy the Nightrisers at any cost be that polarizing influence that Kotenku was talking about? Personally it would have made all the hard work we put into the faction worth it to see a permanent, DM supported presence on the server.
* I'm sure those reading this will say, "Well, you should have done A, B or C to get what you wanted." The DMs were great with some of the PCs in the faction, but the faction as a whole needed a helping hand somehow.
Please take this as constructive suggestions and not whining, because my character was very fulfilling and rewarded by plenty of PC and DM attention.
I'd like to see other player factions become DM ones too, not just the Church of Lathander. The Church of the Veil, The Gnomish Union, the Locksmith Guild and so on could all be great server presences. This also would give players more options and niches to join rather than watching great concept after great concept disappear when its leader is gone.
PC factions can and do survive their leader's deaths.
Its not often, but it certainly happens if someone from the ranks steps up. I can think of three current PC factions where this is happening.
The transition from PC to DM Faction thing would be extrodinary, except for the fact DM Factions are troubled enough as it is. We won't be adding any until we suitably believe the situation is "Fixed", and often times PC factions are not something easily taken up as the DM faction label
As for the concern of a lack of place like Mur, that's in the works. Just be patient. <_<
While transition from PC to DM faction was suggested, it certainly should be a rare thing earned over time.
An intermediate status might be fine, where an NPC or two interact with the faction to help introduce faction plots and provide some permanence to the faction.
Finally, a looming external threat from a powerful adversary or entity is what made EFU such a great atmosphere. The drow. The illithid. The duergar. The Shadow Dragon. There is - some - of that happening now with the Manchakans, the Heart of the Rot and the various "prisoners" and Nightrisers, but not much. I'm sure RWG's event will change that significantly.
Looming threats like the orcs are a great way to provide an awesome backstory, server-wide events and great stories. Red Elient was probably the most memorable thing of the new server so far, and kudos to the DMs when they put these things on for us.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;127770Even ‘lvl’ wise, it’s so easy to get to lvl8-9, it’s hardly a challenge. Too much items imo.
IMHO, for the majority of the player base, getting to 7 is a great challenge, and 8 even more so..9, I have only heard of chars that played a considerable (months) amount of time with the same char. Most folks I play with only have a couple of hours a day, at most, sometimes less, I guess if someone had more time to devote, it may be a math thing , time = levels..but having died several times mere xp's from 7, and being set back to five, I would think not.
I could be wrong, and the server is chalk full of levl 9 chars waiting to PVP everything in site, but from the amount of sendings for trogs, orcs 1 and goblins 1 , I would guess not.
I had an issue, for a while, with EFUA, comeing from efu..quite frankly, I missed it(efu). But I have had the oppertunity to see tons of the new server, and the plot lines, see how easy it is to get something going, with a wee bit of diligence, and I must say, I think Kotenku has simply had some bad luck. I find the server quite the opposite to his post on all aspects save one..the DM factions. But this has been posted to death, so I will simply agree on that point.
Damn, adventure is dead? How many groups have returned to the underdark without DM prompting? Like - 8, and it was sweet. This server has so much going on that it is daunting. I do agree the factions could use some work. Sharboneth/Armada are both good though in the roles they play. Order is sort of redundant and limiting - but oh well. Anyways, adventure is far from dead bit maybe really intense adventure is not actually what you are looking for.
Quote from: Random_White_Guy;127802As for the concern of a lack of place like Mur, that's in the works. Just be patient. <_<
YES!
I don't understand how transitioning a successful PC faction to a DM faction would go well at all.
If you're doing a great job running a PC faction, why would you want the DMs suddenly to come in and decide who gets to join it through some sort of tedious application process?
As for the Lathanderites, we rewarded those PCs that were part of it that actually logged in. Not sure what else we could have done.
Howland,
In the "Must they all die" thread, it was clearly articulated that it is to be expected that good characters should emerge, initiate conflict, and the likely outcome is character death due to this conflict at some point in time.
This norm makes it extremely difficult to sustain a player faction as the primaries die off. If you fight to establish the faction and do a good job of creating/responding to conflict, then its nearly inevitable.
It's a paradox.
How many player factions have survived for a long period of time? I remember when it had been one year for the Stouthearts, and you mentioned that was unusual. They were a nice bit of history in the server, and were a recognizable and fun player faction to be a part of. And although they didn't do much in terms of driving server plots, they still had some nice DM support from time to time, which really helped to keep it going.
To have a good player faction, you need conflict. Yet, conflict results in PVP which frequently ends one or several of the primary characters of the faction. This generally ends the faction, which is a bad thing if it adds some flavor to the setting.
I always thought the Temple of Hoar in the old setting was a great opportunity for players to have a player faction or just a single player with some measure of DM interaction.
The Archeologists/University is another example of something built into the setting that encourages players to RP a setting appropriate character without it being a DM faction per se.
Maybe there is a pretty good amount of DM support for player factions that I am not noticing, but personally it seems difficult to name more than 2-3 of them that are visible and viable at any given time. That would suggest they could use something tangible like a HQ or other perks which is something that has been done in the past.
Perhaps I'm wrong (as usual) and have missed the mark totally. But I would like to see some permanence to well-established factions if it can be arranged in some way for the good of the server as a whole.
Agree that making it application only is probably unnecessary.
Have there been other player factions that have become established and supported factions with NPCs in the old or new setting?
We're going wildly off topic now, my point was that I don't understand how taking a successful PC faction (a faction run by PCs) and jumping in and dictating who gets to join via application (the definition of a DM faction) would help the faction at all.
I certainly understand the issues with PC factions relating to permanence and how easy it is for them to disappear when a few key PCs go away, but that's not what I was getting at. Really, I tend to think probably most PC factions likely should have a natural ending at some point depending upon the nature of it.
Of course another issue with providing support to PC factions is that often when we do provide measured perks to a particularly thriving group (as an example, House Montezzi) other players get upset about it for whatever variety of reasons.
I really truly do believe that the success of any particular PC faction is entirely dependent upon the players in that faction. Some players have the knack to develop that snow-ball effect that makes other players want to log on and join that group - and that is what makes the faction do well.
The more "tangible" perks that in the past you may have looked to a DM to get, are more automated in EFU:A. For instance, if you want a HQ, you can either rent one in the town or alternatively claim any number of different hideaway camps/spots in the wilds. Uniforms with slight magical bonuses can be easily designed and mass produced. Banner groups can earn political influence with the populace without a DM watching all the time.
QuoteOne: the isle doesn't have that feeling of OMG, i'll be stuck here forever. There's a boat out, all it takes is coins. Your PC has actually no reason to stay on Ymph. If he does, it's because Ymph is as good as anywhere else. There's no 'we can beat the server' challenge now. Even ‘lvl’ wise, it’s so easy to get to lvl8-9, it’s hardly a challenge. Too much items imo.
As others said, it'd be very silly to have the same "escape" goal. Escaping the Island is fully automated and scripted, and is something you should feel free to pursue - and yes it is mostly about gathering the gold, but if you want that experience, go for it. It's not difficult to imagine why plenty of other characters would remain.
QuoteTwo: more, EfUA is supposed to be a sand box, but things started by players were stepped on by DM factions. Two things cought my attention -and not because i cared much, but because players where whining to me about it:
- governement: players trying out to make their own, then being stepped on by Sharboneth. That cooled down many people.
- building things: there's been lots of players 'rp' clearing a place and trying to buid for a month (Delver, for ex.) and the next day the Docks is build by other folks. It’s leaving a sense of ‘why bother’.
If you want players to use the sandbox, you'll need more DMs/players ratio, and actually build what regular players are trying to build. Certainly help the great players, because they make the server better, but don't claim there's a sandbox if it's only available a few more mature/leadership/creative players. Don’t empesize RP and ‘building’ when all it ever ends in is conflict and PC death.
- "Trying" to build something is not good enough, to accomplish something major you still need to actually make it happen. House S's arrival was fully IC and PC supported. I believe we were appropriately supportive at all steps of the process, although admittedly I was on full leave from DM'ing at the time myself.
- Emoting about "building" something is not going to help you. There's a post floating around somewhere, "Earning Real Estate in EFU" I think that describes the way to actually build something. When I say EFU is a sandbox, I do not mean it is a place where you can log on for half an hour and emote building something and then rely on a DM to make that change. Building stuff has to be earned through story. Emoting the same line a few times is not really much of RP to me.
QuoteThree: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity. Sure it’s making new areas, but small ones, and i’m sure the players themselve would use the toolset to propose their own small things. And those things could be fought over, destroyed, etc. That’s my idea of a sandbox, at least. For now, the factions i see are mostly questing groups, that pretend to build things, but never really do, and when the leader dies, so does the faction.
Sprinkling the module with a million different abandoned shrines and such seems like a really bad idea to me. It's not what I mean by building. Real Estate can be earned, but it should not be simple.
QuoteFour: Another thing: the structure of the society reminds of ancient Rome, with patricians, citizens, slaves, yet we as players do not have the culture of respect for Higher born people, and this special atmosphere of social hierarchy is lost as soon as the next guy insults some patrician who does not have means of answering according to his rank. Only one or two are up to the rank, but the rest of patricianhoods are just.. empty, imo. Make patricianhood app only imo, with decent goals and better perks behind it. Have the Law enforcing respect to those that make it.
I think I prefer Patricianship being something that PCs can earn on their own. It definitely confers major perks and benefits, perhaps what you're proposing there would be closer to nobility.
QuoteFive: the dominant faction is too blurry. So blurry i've found no one IG that could actually tell my PC if it was true Sharboneth allowed slavery. For various reasons: either they don’t know, or (worst) they don’t care... I'd rather have it pure evil (or pure good), so people are forced to take a stand. Pure evil would certainly be colorful and bring about a real resistance. I’ve seen retainers not knowing if they ‘can’ order Stygians about! People don’t know what to make of Sharboneth: no cult, no deeds of the leader to bring respect or disgust. They are just... here.
I blame your time zone! <_< No - I understand this is likely the case with a lot of players who don't pay much attention, so we'll work to improve. I don't think it should be or is that mysterious though, House Sharboneth is a graspingly greedy yet troubled noble house with evil, good, and mostly neutral members. Since I'd rather not have to re-write the political system every month or two according to the whims of the playerbase at the time, I prefer their LN stance rather than being either super evil or super good.
QuoteSix: visible intrigue between DM factions would be neat, but there's only one main faction to deal with, and the others (Stygian, Order) are just mercenaries with their own agenda, even apparently working for/with the main faction. I’m sure there is intrigue going on, but if so it’s invisible to outside folks. Maybe make a rival house come in? Or have the major military force start to want to gain independance a little? As for secret factions, well, they are secret...
Can't say I really agree but I can understand how it can see that way.
QuoteSeven: exploring is tough, and getting to sites of interest is long and dangerous, which discourages exploration. On EfU, players could cross 2.5 areas and be at Mur or Claw Port, and therefore go to the fish isles and stuff. On EfUA, well, it’s wild wild wild, and when you get to that hermit site, or the barbarian camp, or to the desert, it’s time to log off. More safe ‘sites of interest’ would certainly help making teams to head out and explore, imo. Not just camps, which are nice, but which are just on the way things.The Salty Shark inn was nice in that sense, for example, even if far off.
Having some more destinations to go to, as well as just generally making exploring more interesting, is on the list. For instance, a quest where a different and unique island is randomly selected, as well as other things.
I actually support some of Kot's arguements, and have had discussion with a few DMs over the ambiguity of a number of the factions.
To me that flavor of the factions just is off. That's just my opinion. I do however think that the changes to the structures of the factions are spot on, and really give them a direction and definition they lacked in the past. In the end though, I'm just not interested in either playing or playing alongside lots of LG/N footmen defending the colony and crusading in the name of God, LN/TN armsmen defending the colony and crusading in the name of Sharboneth, or LN/LE armada mercs defending the colony and crusading for gold. Or all three working together but secretly trying to stab eachother in the back.
Perhaps I will in the future, perhaps not. It's just not a spectrum of alignment, dogma, or goals I do not enjoy. But kudos to the DM staff for setting them up properly, and allowing change to occur on the island for those who are interested in those things. That's what -is- important.
I actually find the lawful alignment highly interesting in this setting because the "law" is relatively new, and hardly justified by anything else than might. The fact that the law isn't (or at least doesn't appear to be) rooted in history/tradition/culture etc. gives the lawful factions a touch of savage tyranny! Neat, IMO!
"Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made."