In my experience, Orc 1 parties almost never go on to attempt part 2. Not only that, they leave the map in the quest area, or more rarely carry it around uselessly until reset.
Since this is a feature people aren't using, perhaps it should be removed and the Orc quest part two should just become freely attemptable.
Leave it the way it is, if thy don't want to do a vastly more rewarding quest in both loot and xp thats their problem and the quest itself rewards too much to be taken without a map.
I think it's a great way to script part 2 of quests like this.
It gives your characters a good IC reason to not be able to do a quest that is likely vastly beyond your skill/consumables if you haven't first completed the quest.
Example:
Party of barely supplied L6's stumbles upon the entrance to Part 2 of orcs. They don't have the map, so they can't do it. So they go find the orcs for part 1. They have a rough time of it, about half of them dieing, but eek out a win. After finally putting down the boss...with map in hand they decide to wait until they are better supplies and more skilled to take on the extra challenge, realizing what almost wiped out their entire party, was only part of the real challenge.
Without the block of P1 to get to P2, you might end up with groups that can't even complete the first part, rolling into the second part and getting slaughtered.
I like it that way.
since when is it hard to slaughter orcs 1 with your buddies, get the map, and then organize a second trip?
Since forever. I've never been in a party that had the heart to go on to part 2. I must have rotten luck. :(
Quote from: ScottyB;129814Since forever. I've never been in a party that had the heart to go on to part 2. I must have rotten luck. :(
I used to do part two all the time...good times, good times.
Keep it as is.
Hrm, it's been almost my experience that part two is easier than part one...albeit, I was playing a wizard at the time.
i think instead of removing the map you should need three map fragments, encouraging players to interact with other orc haters that did orcs p1 for the reset to come together in arms against these blasted fiends of red eleint
there is a gross difference in scaling between the two quests. orcs i is easier in a small group, orcs ii is not proportionally harder in a large group.
Quote from: Broken Crockery;129823there is a gross difference in scaling between the two quests. orcs i is easier in a small group, orcs ii is not proportionally harder in a large group.
(Three man's orcs one and two.) Come again?
Maybe there should be an orcs 3!? Like.. them having two more settlements arround yimph :D
No, seriusly, sometimes you want to do orcs 2, not orcs 1, and yet you don't have all the time needed for both quests. I say remove it.
PS: Although i do like the concept of various orc camps arround yimph and have like 4 posible orcs quest...
Sunken Enclave part Deuce!
I agree with this OP mainly because of time issues.
Doing orcs takes 1h. Doing orcs part 2 takes 2h, meaning you've got to have 3h in a row to do it.
ICly it means people that wander in the moutains and come by the camp can't go in for no good reason, too.
More, the thrill 'OMG a strange map' is gone. It was really great to introduce the quest on the new module, but now seems old (to me at least).
On a side note, i'd really enjoy having more maps pinpointing random QAs...
For those of you pointing out the "No good reason not to do the quest when you find the placeable" argument, I'd like to say;
There's a map for a reason, the tunnels are unstable and a practical maze, you need the map to find the camp in the first place. Don't metagame the meaning of some OOC'ly glowing little placeable.
I cannot express my frustration at the above comment.
Listen in Silence: You missunderstood the suggestion, nobody cares about the map, what the OP us suggesting is being able to do orcs 2 without having to do orcs 1 first.
That can be changed by simply roleplaying the tunnels are not usntable and problem solved.
...or perhaps the tunnels are unstable and the problem really is there? That's like saying you roleplay your character's diety not having a problem with him and not giving spell failure even if it should due to your actions - problem solved?
orcs ii is a reward for having completed orcs i. i do not see the problem with this at all! you've got to do the first part, to get to the second part, just like you can't be like: i really just wanted to kill the chieftain of the trogs, but not do those underwater parts because they annoy me and take forever. the second part of orcs is vastly more rewarding, and for most parties easier, then the first part. that is reason enough to have some requsites to its being taken.
Quote from: derflaro;129819i think instead of removing the map you should need three map fragments, encouraging players to interact with other orc haters that did orcs p1 for the reset to come together in arms against these blasted fiends of red eleint
I don't know how you're going to play Richard Phulling with this poor lack of knowledge. The Orcs from the Orcs Quest did not join the Spirit's Host, thus were not involved in Red Elenit. I frankly am unsure if Red Eleint Historians United should go ahead if you can't even do your research.
Sometimes, I don't know why I DM at all.
Just make us all start at level 10 IMO !
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Quote from: Oskar Maxon;129887...or perhaps the tunnels are unstable and the problem really is there? That's like saying you roleplay your character's diety not having a problem with him and not giving spell failure even if it should due to your actions - problem solved?
That's not the poooooint!!!
Let's igrnore RP (ghasp!)
for a couple seconds, now, the reason there is a map is so you can onyl fo orcs 2 after orcs 1. Suggestion is not remove the map and allow characters to travel an unstabloe tunnel without the map, suggestion is remove orcs 1 as a requirement for orcs 2.
We are still ignoring RP, remember.Now.. let's say it happens, How to add it to the module? simple, when on the dialog of etnering the second part, map is not needed to have the option. Bam! done. Now how to add it RPwise to the module?
Let's take RP into account (at last!) only partially for a moment.
The "unstable tunnels" are an inexistent, imaginary pure RP area right? in fact, if it weren't for the dialogue we woudln't even know about it. Right. Now let's say the DM's change this description to "walkable, perfectly safe tunnels"
bam! (again) Rp is fixed.
"But nooo my character was there some time before how can the tunnels be fixed now? it makes no sence!!!"
You are not supposed to have done that quest, ever in your characters life, therefore is irrelevant.
Quote from: Broken Crockery;129902orcs ii is a reward for having completed orcs i. i do not see the problem with this at all!
The fact is if you want to do orcs 2, you need to do orcs 1, Orcs 1 takes about one hour, Orcs 2 takes about 2 hours, the problme being sometimes players want to do orcs 2, but don't have 3+ hours of spare time, but merely 2.
Another problem comes when people want to go questin randomly, take orcs 1, half the party wants orcs 2, the other half is satisfied with orcs 1. So now you lack half the players. You can make a sending, if there are avialble people arround. And willing to do the quest too.
Quote from: Broken Crockery;129902you've got to do the first part, to get to the second part, just like you can't be like: i really just wanted to kill the chieftain of the trogs, but not do those underwater parts because they annoy me and take forever. the second part of orcs is vastly more rewarding, and for most parties easier, then the first part. that is reason enough to have some requsites to its being taken.
If the problem is, orcs 2 is too rewarding, make it less rewarding. I like that quest, it's much more fun than orcs one. I want to do it more often, regardless of the beenefits it might bring to my character.
If you want a change, it should be because it brings something of use to the server, not because it makes things easier.
Don't have the time to do orcs2 after orcs1? Tough break. Make time, or log. If you do have the time, however, it's shittons of fun. Yes, it'd be much more convenient if I could just wander over to the mountains and do orcs2 with no backstory needed. But you can't, so deal.
Orcs II is intended as a treat for when you get the map or have extra time. It is special. We have lots of quests, not all of them can be done simply by showing up at them.
Wont happen. Thank you.