Okay. I have played on this server for a long time. I have seen its up and downs. Recently all I see is everyone wishing to change everything about the server. I remember when people where content with what EFU was and very much enjoyed it. As a player I hear other players talk behind the scenes and many are not so happy with the direction EFU has gone. Our player count is lower than it has been in a LONG time. Don't take this the wrong way as I am in no way bashing the hard work Mort, Snoteye, Howland, and other put into making this server.
I often feel as if many of the short comings could be fixed with a more active DMing team. We have a HUGE list of DMs yet I very rarely see more than 1 or 2 online if any in my play times. In fact I mostly see Mort/Germain/Gippy ((recent)) IG on a regular basis, of course maybe I am wrong.
The thing that brought me over here, as well as a few others I know very well, was the fact it had no haks yet was always having DM spice and events and DM interaction on an extreme level. Now I am lucky if I can even get a DM for something minor. I know that people will say you should try to do things without a DM but sometimes you just need one or you are tired of doing quests or exploring the SAME area without a DM to show you what you cannot see via limitations of the graphics, etc. If they are on IRC just chatting away they are often 'to busy' chatting to help IG which I feel that if they wish to DM they should take on the negatives ((plus I do not see how these are negatives, helping palyers with issues)) as well. Sometimes DMs say they are overwhelmed, well perhaps get rid of old DMs that don't wish to and find players that want to?
Also this new party system, I'll keep it short since it's been covered. This is a game. I play to have fun. This new system is so frustrating it's beyond funny. I take a shit in RL should we add that in too? I am here to interact with friends and enjoy myself. I honestly doubt it has cut down on any metagaming. You can send tells or use IRC as always to locate you friends or set up whatever you want to. Some people have HUGE LCD screens that can set high resolutions and see very far while others cannot. I often lose my party members from slow zoning and lag. With no parties I often feel as if I am just hacking my way in a single player module. The aspect of group and companionship is gone.
These are my own personal views and concerns for a server I very much enjoy and have played for years. Feel free to share what you think. Perhaps I am totally wrong...
I get what you mean Pudrid. I truly do. I also remember even we used to have good amount of folks online during Euro evenings, but nowdays I only see same amounts -if- something is going on.
However, our player base consists of seemingly around the same amount of players as the servers max capacity is, and they are all from different timezone.
It is summer, or end of it, and most are returning to schools, or they are spending their vacations still, and they generally have a lot more to do than playing. This often goes for every game out there.
I frankly like efu as it is, and I can manage with any features it has. I loved new party system, but hey, if it brings more activity and more players, sure, lets return to old one. Dm activity is another thing, which is same everywhere. I just wanna play with people, and hopefully the numbers pop up a bit after vacations and new school years start.
What can I say.. I agree.
No matter how I try to word this it sounds like whining... so never mind.
I would rather agree to this post, to some degree at least.
The thing is, when you're not a faction addict, suddenly the server seems DM empty. Now i don't mind much, because as a player i hardly ever call for DMs (like thrice in a year), but obviously that's probably important to many.
I get many whines about 'geez DMs don't do the little things anymore'. I'm certainly not in a position to say if it's justified whines or not, but it seems to echo putrid's post. On a side not: I would certainly like people to contact DMs rather than players for this sort of opinions, because, hells, what can other players say/do?
I do see very much less DMs than when i started playing. I've had people asking me (of all people!) if i ever saw a DM on EfUA. So of course i help the people out and advertise for the server, but truth is, apart when i was zapped in the DM area for a ban check up years ago and what seemed like 6 DMs were glaring at me, i've only seen like 1 or 2 DMs logged in at once (baring Eleint War).
Now i'm probably not in a good timezone, but that matters too. Since the change to NWN 1.69, then change in setting, my timezone's been rather empty. And when there are only 5-6 people logged on, the religious-racial-alignement-city/wild oppostions make it so that only 2 people can actually 'get together', meaning quest is ruled out as soon as you hit lvl5. Or if there are 4 people, suddenly we realize there's 2 mages and 2 rogues, and people refuse to quest without a warrior. (and that's starting to annoy me seriously).
I just hope it's summer lowering the player count and giving this kinda more empty feeling nowadays.
On the other hand, we all see the amount of work put in the server lately, so the OP title is a bit harsh. But maybe the message plum is trying to convey is 'more in game presence rather than 'excellent scripting/building', i dunno. Maybe i'm misinterpreting.
I have been true to my word and run one DM quest a day while I've been here, (thus 5-6 DM quests in the last week) but to be sure there's been less DM attention this week then usual. The huge list of DMs is misleading as many are MIA. I will allow that one reason you've not seen DM's IG plum is because you're not IG very much and when you do it is to wander around (friendless) before logging off. However, I do recall running your palemaster quest just five days ago, which is I daresay a bit more attention then many PC's on the server receive.
I am willing to receive any sort of feedback on my DMing or how to boost numbers. Letsplayforfun, it has always been the EFU tradition to run a quest for new players that have just joined the server. I admit that once upon a time I could pick out new players with the utmost ease but I have less time now to devout to awesome sleuthing skills so if you invite or know of a new player find me on IRC or send a DM message IG and I'll do my best to accommodate them with something interesting.
I would like to say that more than anything else, strong IG DM presence is what will carry this server.
Those DMs who do get in game and run shit, it's generally in the realm of awesome. No one is saying that when DMing happens, it's not up to par. And I don't think Plum is trying to imply that there isn't any DMing. There certainly is.
However, getting MORE DMs actively DMing on the server at all hours of the day and night would be a huge plus.
Even when I'm not able to get into game, I check EFUSL often and it is rare, this week, last week, or in the last month, to ever see more than 2 DMs on at one time. Not to say it doesn't happen because it most certainly does.
I guarantee that getting more active DMs in game will raise numbers in general as well as mitigate negative feelings towards difficult changes such as the new partyless playing system.
More DMs in game = more current players in game with them. More players in game = higher 'stats' in the server selection screen on gamespy. Higher 'stats' = more walk ins. More walk ins = growth of player base.
More DMs in game = growth of player base!!!
Also, change the name of the server for gamespy to Archipelago. It starts with A. First server to show up with 30-40 players is a pretty huge advantage.
Jaydemoon pretty much got my post right on.
Gippy: I wander alone because I am an exile, a stargazer, and the fact that when I play about 5-8 players total are usually online. I wont get into details about players quitting PCs for certain reasons but yeah I often am alone so I get bored alone and log out. I am not going to play to much when there is no one online to play with or no hope of doing something I want/need to do. I often explore and have made large groups with players, as they know who they are, and invite people out and around on the many characters I have. A bit silly to say I just wander or sit around alone always. Also, I am not meaning less activity for this week or month I mean in the last 6 or more months, player count is far down from how it was and used to be. I am in no way bashing you Gip! You are doing a great job! Infact I would like to see MORE of what you are doing by other DMs. Maybe we could redo the DM list then?
*EDIT*
Also, I made this not for me, but for the server as a whole. I am not seeking my own personal DM attention but wish to better the server by saying something that I know some players think, publicly. If my little quest for palemaster was more than what most players get it only re-enforces my point that MORE DMs IG are needed more often. I feel like you are attacking me and my playing personally Gip for a valid opinion about EFU:A.
Quote from: sylvyrdragon;141223No matter how I try to word this it sounds like whining... so never mind.
Sylvyr, the DM are big people who know what to take from a post and what to leave to the whining category. It's best you phrase what you feel, it can only help make things even better. No one's going to pick on you for saying there are things you like less, or even things you don't like. Sometimes what you write doesn't come out the way you meant it, but you can always rephrase.
And to Gyppy (and all DMs), the irony is that whil i was reading your answer, you were supervising the Riser pvp in Jergal temple. Just don't take this post as a 'DMs are not doing' their job, because you are. But something's changed -it's bound to happen as years/month go by- and it's probably more old timers feeling and commenting on that change.
If we do get to identify what's happening, maybe it can help go back to "50 players hells i can't log in tonight". That's be great. If it's just nostalgia, the thread will die of itself.
What got me hooked with EFU waaaay back, was the random dm spice. After a few weeks of playing here on EFU I had seen more DM interaction than I had gotten over 6monthes on a certain other server we know so well.
Sadly now I see random spice very seldon, this really makes me a bit sad since random spice will SPICE up a quest, and defenatly also the RP on the quest. Im not saying it need to be big spice, just a dm possesing a monster or two often make a bigger impact than you would know.
The DM list for people that will run you quests is: Wern8, Gippy, Mort (though busy moving) and NC.
What Disco said. Best server i have ever played on, and i have fantastic taste.
I stopped reading here:
QuoteI remember when people where content with what EFU was and very much enjoyed it.
This never happened.
EfU has always been a work in progress. As Buddhists live their lives in a pursuit of enlightenment so that they can achieve perfect oblivion, EfU is worked on constantly to achieve a state of perfect awesome.
Every change that's made or requested, is made with that goal in mind.
I agree in part with some of Plum's post, but I believe Jayde hit the nail on the head. I believe the lower population numbers can be linked to inactivity among the DM's.
As someone who has been on EfU for years, there have been times like this in the past. DM's experience burn out and real life just like everyone else, and it takes a lot of energy to do awesome things. The more energy you pour into the server to bringing the awesome, the more time you spend, and eventually it's like a second job. A second job that you end up doing for free.
Then you can add to that all the things that virtually no DM signed up to deal with: bitchy players, managing the server, etc. And that begins to cut into what they really signed up for: to provide the awesome.
Hence the burn out. Combine that with real life issues and it's quickly apparent why there are so many DM's MIA.
So in my experience there are periodic droughts on EfU, but generally speaking when the rain starts - it really begins to pour.
All that being said, I think the question should NOT be: What can the DM's do for the server?
It should be: What can ***I*** do for the server?
There is a lack of active DM's right now, and the reality is some of the DM's who have gone MIA might not be back due to real life or just generally moving on. This means that there is room for people like you. I'd suggest anyone interested in DMing on EfU:A fill out a Statement of Interest (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/announcement.php?f=161&a=3).
After all, the standards are -obviously- low right now. Just look at the newest member of the team! If Wern8 can do it, so can you! :p
I understand plum's points and feelings as well, with a few caveats. I've also been here for years and, as I play in one of the worst times possible, see very little DM activity or large player numbers. It's not something I have any control over and it hasn't stopped me enjoying myself (mostly), but it does have some impact on how I play - I have a stargazer PC for example, but I gave up playing him very quickly when I realised I would be playing on my own 90% of the time. So I made and play a PC that can get involved with the others playing when I do.
Having said that, the elevation of Gippy back to DM'hood has been like a breath of fresh air for me. I have seen and been involved in more DM stuff in the past week than in the past six months prior to that, so kudos to you Gip!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes you have to modify your expectations to match the way things are, but don't despair as things are always changing and will get better. In the meantime, you might have to also change how or who you play so you can get the most of the times you can play.
I agree wholeheartedly with Plum and Jayde.
Like Plum, I am playing a Stargazer and so right off I am limited to who I can play with. Plus, my PC is level 8, which eliminates a bunch more possibilities in terms of static quests. I think I've had 4 DM interactions the whole time I've played here and sure, that's probably partly due to the fact that I don't play everyday and simply don't have time to log on for hours and hours.
Because I realize my own time limitations, I also don't bug the DMs trying to solicit personal plot advancement. I have always had the attitude of "if it happens, awesome, if not, I understand and I'll live".
So, I'm not overly concerned with not getting "personal" attention. However, recently as many may know there was a lot of conflict between the Stigians and the Stargazers. A number of posts within the faction forum were made all with ideas on how to handle it, what to do, etc. Many of these posts asked for and really needed a DM response- any response. Considering that the Stargazers have "elders" and the elders are NPCs, there are certain things that needed answering and help from the elders with that needed DM intervention. After Howland went away those direct questions just sat there, unanswered. Finally, as the conflict came to a head, a decision was apparently made outside any of the PCs as to how to appease the Stigians in the moment and no explanation was offered, even after repeatedly "asking the elders" for one.
ICly, I can only assume that the elders are totally ignoring us, even though I suspect that OOCly it is simply a case of not enough DMs or perhaps no DM that cares to deal with the faction. In either case, it made for some very frustrating and anticlimactic inter-faction conflict.
Additionally, there are certain things that are broken on the server (like the nature travel system) which were supposedly in the process of being fixed, but never were. Little things like this are not such a big deal when one thinks of overworked DMs and not enough builders, but when an entire new party system is implemented on the server and yet small fixes and suggestions which would be a very nice bone to toss at a faction that gets very little DM interaction are still sitting there, undone... well personally it's quite discouraging.
Being a builder myself, I totally understand how hard it is to fix little things you don't really want to be bothered with when you're all wrapped up in some other, bigger, better project. And this is where we come to delegation and hiring more DMs.
I have offered on more than one occasion to help with building and minor fixes/improvements but no one took me up on it or even showed the slightest interest. I'm not talking about DMing as I don't feel I have enough time to commit to DMing atm, but as stated before I am happy to help with small fixes and building. I'm sure they have their reasons for not taking me up on it but that doesn't mean the frustration goes away when I see things that are still broke that I could probably fix.
And then there's the hiring of new DMs. I see in this thread a few people encouraging others to fill out a statement of interest. I happen to know of one person who has filled out two such statements over the past year and has not been offered a DM position. This person has been a loyal player of EfU for several years and has never done anything "bad". This person was a DM on another, very well-known PW for many years... around 6, I think. On that PW this person was considered one of the most solid and creative DMs there. I suppose the DMs here have their reasons for not offering him the job and yes I have read the bit about "don't feel bad if we don't approach you...it could be we don't want to lose you as a player". *shrugs* It's hard to argue with that and I'm not trying to convince anyone to rethink their decision on that matter. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to read all these posts talking about how the server needs more DMs when I know of one who would be happy to serve and would be great at it but who for some reason I'm not going to speculate on in this post keeps getting passed over.
I think EfU:A is a great server with loads of potential, however for all the reasons listed above and elsewhere in the new party system discussion, I am unfortunately finding more and more often that when I think to myself "maybe I'll log on to Efu:A" I pick up a book, go see a movie, clean the bathroom or weed the garden instead.
These things are cyclical, you should know this by now Plum. In a few months or even next week things will no doubt be radicially different. Its easy to look back into the past and somehow come to the conclusion you had no trouble getting a DM anytime but that's just simply untrue.
More DMs does not equal a growth in the playerbase. In fact it can mean a palpable loss. Some people are just better suited to playing, and DMing them can and has lead to a dissolution of player stock and dynamism.
Also, a system that removes location and AB/saves/damage/immunities/special attacks etc. as metagamable information is just amazing.
It's the end of summer, most people are inactive, shit happens.
I can agree to some extent that it is hard to get a dm a lot fot he time, but as i understand it a lot fo dm's are moving/away/on holiday. people have lives outside the game y'know.
Ona positive point, we -have- had to two new dms in the [ast week or so, this si a good thing, and gippy who dm's in my timezones is doing a great job.
all in all, we get dead times, but persevere, good shit happens and this server still rawks.
@ FI--
DMs are always on the lookout for new DMs, and periodic discussions occur regarding this all the time. If someone isn't DM'd, then there were reasons for it, and frankly their judgment is going to be more educated than your own because they have a better understanding of what is needed.
And as for some of the sentiments in the rest of your post, I honestly think its pretty rude. We will take a single DM for example. Mort has put what I can only guess to be an ungodly amount of hours and work into the server, adding all kinds of things no other server has even came close to (especially without haks) mirroring. Those hundreds of hours of work are essentially summed up by you in one paragraph of your post as "It's alright but no good enough for me to want to play here". You are still disparaging, no matter how politely you do it.
Well done. No wonder DMs get burned out.
As much as i hate to agree with caddies.
Amen.
Way to take everything I said out of context.
Leave it to Caddies to take constructive criticism and assign it a judgement.
I mean, seriously, how many more caveats of:
QuoteBeing a builder myself, I totally understand how hard it is to fix little things you don't really want to be bothered with when you're all wrapped up in some other, bigger, better project.
do you need to know that contributions are respected and positions are understood, but that frustrations mount anyway?
You can look at it as an attack on folks and get defensive, or you can take it as a real perspective that you may not have considered and go from there.
Sorry for double posting here, but yes, do please keep in mind that other perspectives are valid. Just because you experience wonderful greatness doesn't mean everyone else does. Just because YOU get DMed every other day doesn't mean everyone else does. Just because YOU get great DM loot, doesn't mean everyone else does. just because YOU don't have trouble with a new implementation doesn't mean no one else does.
I think (and it's just my opinion) that it's pretty arrogant to act as if everyone should see things as you do or STFU.
It wasn't so much constructive criticism as elaborate whining. Just because someone laces what is essentially a "This sucks I want more" post with politically correct jargon doesn't mean its anything less. Its these people that make DMs burned out, and I find its ironic these very same people are the ones who want more DM time.
Anyway, I'm not going to defend myself against the random "You are a DM pet" argument you brought up out of nowhere, because we both know it won't change your mind. If its easier for you to get by thinking I'm unduly tended to by DMs, then I'm fine with that.
The last posts are off topic, sorry to say. I do believe the OP is important, and getting any feedback is useful. It's a touchy issue because we'll probably see vast differences in perceptions, and we don't want to criticize the hard work DMs put into the server. But if there are ways to make it even better, such as telling what kind of DMing some people enjoy, or what some people feel is missing, it's important. It's been long since i saw more than 30 people logged on, so yes, i'm worried.
You're going to read in to what I wrote exactly what you want to read in to it and I don't see that there's anything I can really say that will convince you otherwise, as clearly your mind is made up. Twisting words and creating inferences that were never there in the first place is pretty standard fare served up when someone doesn't like what someone else says and intends to spin it to their own advantage.
Most people understandably don't want to deal with the backlash of expressing an unpopular opinion and this is likely why you have situations such as in the new party system review poll where so few of the 'nay' voters choose to say why they voted that way. I've expressed some thoughts that clearly don't sit well with some and for that I get to watch as I am apparently chided and my words twisted into other than what was intended. That's fine. Internet words don't ruffle my feathers and I'm not changing or taking back one single thing I said and everyone can spin it as they will. I have no doubt whatsoever that numerous silent readers will nod their heads in agreement at my words and that's good enough for me.
Please, let's not get derailed and let this thread turn into a flame war.
More active DMs plz.
I don't mean to carry on a flame war, this is a post to clarify in an effort to
quell said flames.
Quote from: Caddies;141291Anyway, I'm not going to defend myself against the random "You are a DM pet" argument you brought up out of nowhere, because we both know it won't change your mind. If its easier for you to get by thinking I'm unduly tended to by DMs, then I'm fine with that.
It seems random, Caddies, because it's not at all what I was trying to say!!!
It was a general 'you', referring to everyone who gets DMing here and there relative to those who don't, not because they are DM pets or anything, just because that's the way it goes.
It was meant as, "Those of us/you who get DMed and have a pretty charmed time of it here should try to remember that it isn't that way for everybody"
Sorry it came across any other way, mang!
Ok, someone just lock this thread, constructive or not. its getting flamy, bitchy, and derailed.
Yes we want more active dm's, everyone does, it'd be great if could have dm quests 24/7, and constant shit going on, but we cant. there are several choices, you dont need dm's to do that much or impact the server. sure it helps.
yes some of us love/hate the new implementations, discuss it in the correct threads -asking- about your opinions.
I for one am tired of see threads like this, where constant whinging and bickering ensues daily.
If you dont like the server, leave. Noone is stopping you, but after being removed a couple of times and beign forced to look elsewhere, i'll assure you. EFU is much better than any other server ive come across.
I'll probably get labelled an ass kisser for this post but screw it. People need to chill out and have fun. end of the day, its a game.
Why can't we all just get along?
No, seriously. Get along.
I will add one final thing and that is to say that the people whom receive DM attention from me are usually people that stay logged in for a goodly period of time and occupy themselves for that said period of time. My formula is sometimes like this:
- I look for people I wish to run quests for
- I do initial set up
- I advertise quest to people
- I continue on set up as they prepare
- I run quest
- I figure out unique loot (if any)
Rarely will someone that just logs in for fifteen minutes, or sits for hours in the Kingsman, etc, get the DM attention they so want.
Just wanted to throw out that although I cant log in while traveling around, it does seem that there are some good times ahead - brand new enthusiastic DMs, plots on the way, and other good stuff to come.
Problems mentioned are real, certainly it has been a constant struggle fir three years to have enough DMs IG. Trust me it us really, really hard to maintain the DM presence our playerbase deserves.
As always though I am confident that the server is what you make of it - a more social adventurer type with a mega extraverted personality can make an excellent alt, and be entertaining for yourself and others.
Anyway when I do return be certain you will see a lot of DMing out of me!