This spell is horribly broken.
I suggest we revamp it and allow it to give players a +10 to open lock and pick pocket skillz.
Pick Pocket? "*chants some arcane words* knock knock. Who's there? A thief who came to rob you without being noticed"
Disagree on Pickpocket.
+10 to Open Lock does sound reasonable though.
I disagree. Wizards can already cross-class these points to extreme amounts and with this spell they would outclass rogues with ease.
No
Well, from what i've seen the spell is nearly useless. 90% of the locks i've encountered need a specific key, so what's the point?
I'd settle for even a 5% chance to open any door. As is, the spell is completely useless. I remember there being exactly one door in the UD where this spell was even marginally useful, and even then, a rogue had a better chance.
Knock should be useful for non-faction doors.
Giving it a use is different than allowing Wizards (who already can for the most part) open any door that does not require a specific key. There are already tools to aid in lockpicking and combined with this spell adding a bonus I'd wager that a Wizard could nearly pick a DC 55+ lock with some gear aiding as well.
I'd gladly like to see an example of a wizard who can pick a DC 45 lock, let alone a DC 55 one.
Unless it has been changed here, only a rogue can pick a DC 35+ lock.
Quote from: Conan The Conqueror;141739I'd gladly like to see an example of a wizard who can pick a DC 45 lock, let alone a DC 55 one.
Well, since we recently had a wizard picking DC 40 locks with tools, another 10 with the Knock spell as suggested would put them at 50. It's not really that amazing with the amount of loot out there that can provide a bonus.
I believe an unspoken worry may be that actually making Knock useful would devalue the entire Lockpicking skill entirely. Even in the case it allows one to open a few chests or a locked door, one has to burn a spellslot to accomplish this (one that could be used for the far more useful spell like Blur, Invisibility, or Bulls). Someone who actually invested in lock picking can easily and far more cheaply open up all the locks in their path or on a QA without expending any of their potential.
In the case of higher end locks where few if any high level rogues could ever hope to open it, perhaps they could be flagged so Knock doesn't simply win out in this rare case where it is actually more useful.
Yeah, Ahmed used to crack DC 30-40 ones too. 5 points at L7 +3 from gloves (easy to get) +2 DEX +2 from Grace +1 from a Toolbelt, +20 = 33. Add in any other loot you've got and a set of tools and you can reach 40.
On a sidenote, the Chicken familiar has Knock, despite it being essentially useless since it only seems to work on bashable doors.
ANY PC can open a lock if they make the check. the DC limit is for disarming traps.
If Knock was changed to a 3 round +10 bonus, it'd be less useful than its original implementation, but allow cracking of 1-2 doors or chests. The *point* of a wizard is that their large spell list allows them to do a lot df stuff better than anyone else for a short period of time *if* they prepare for it. Knock is a sweet spell, BUT for any given door you need TWO knock spells, one to get in, one to get out. A lockpicker can bust locks all day long.
How about this:
Change knock so it may work on an AoE or a single lock, if it's on a single lock it will -always- unlock it unless it requires an specific key (meaning if a rogue can unlock it, so can the spell, not only bashable doors) if cast in an AoE then there is a check to open all locks
Given that the spell is supposed to open any non magical lock automatically, I don't see why 10 points in pick lock is so overpowered. I'd suggest it be more like 50.
As has been pointed out, this in now way replaces a good rogue for picking locks. A spell slot/wand/scroll has to be burned, all very expensive in their own way, in order to accomplish what most rogues could do repeatedly and for free.
The spell should be useful. And it should be an automatic success on any non magically guarded lock.
short duration of +open lock, disable/set trap equal to caster level
I'm not sure if this is possible, but hey - what the hell.
Even though Knock is a transmutation spell (why?), I think it should be replaced with a divination spell. There are no cool divination spells for wizards. Change knock entirely to be more like a scrying spell.
Here is how I'd imagine it working:
QuoteMind's Eye (Knock)
Spell level: Sorcerer/Wizard 2; Cleric with Knowledge Domain 2
Innate level: 2
School: Divination
Components: verbal
Range: Personal
Area of effect: Caster
Duration: 2 minutes / level; (spell focus: divination, 3 minutes / level); (greater spell focus: divination, 5 minutes / level)
Save: none
Spell resistance: no
Description: The caster has the ability to detach their third eye, and use it to observe distant locations. When cast the arcanist must focus all of his energy on maintaining the third eye, and becomes unaware of his own surroundings. In most cases few know that they are being spied on when the eye is near; however when the eye is detected it may be destroyed causing 2d6 points of psychic (magic) damage to the arcanist.
The third eye cannot pass through physical objects, though the wizard can at times 'will' a door open while using this spell.
In essence, it'd work exactly like a familiar and a summoned creature. Except the caster does not choose to possess it – it happens automatically.
The benefit of the minds eye over the familiar is that it could have permanent invisibility, displacement, and 50% immunity to all forms of damage. In addition it could have 30 hide / move silently. It'd appear basically as a small little beholder if it is spotted, have negative -10 AB, 10 AC, only physical attacks (so it is completely defenseless) and 15 HP.
In essence, it allows the wizard to spy / scry for a short time. A level 9 wizard with Greater Spell Focus: Divination would be able to maintain the "Mind's Eye" for 45 minutes. A level 9 wizard without any spell focus in divination will only be able to maintain the Mind's Eye for 18 minutes.
When the mind's eye spell ends it teleports back to the caster and then unsummons itself. The caster can end the spell by unpossessing it, much like unpossessing a familiar.
..I'd rather have the spell work.
It's a useless spell even if it could be made to work. Most of the doors you want to open are locked with a key. Unless it is some chest or door on a quest. In which case you'd have to sacrifice a valuable spell slot to bring it along.
You can always make the spell knock work as it is right now, through RPing and a DM present ...
Re: Mind's Eye: A spell's school cannot be changed, and only familiars can be remote-possessed.
The concern that casters can perform the role of other classes is one of the commonly recognized flaws with 3rd edition D&D. Clerics can self-buff and tank. Wizards have many spells, especially at higher levels, that can automatically succeed where another class would have needed large skill investment.
Within our level range this isn't too big a problem. Knock is a high enough level that it could be given some use without upsetting things, and I can't think of any counter-suggestions that would be useful.
It's a shame you can't restore spell uses if you cast Knock and nothing gets knocked. But maybe NWNX can do that?
Damn. Oh well. There goes that idea. :p
I really do wish wizards had a more versatile spell list on NWN. Mostly spells that are used for things other than combat.
Quote from: Meldread;141798Damn. Oh well. There goes that idea. :p
I really do wish wizards had a more versatile spell list on NWN. Mostly spells that are used for things other than combat.
+1000