Let me start by saying I think the Mithrilsouls was the best faction I've ever belonged to thus far. For the most part those players always tried to include everybody in the faction into the goings on of the other members and (that I noticed) didn't play favorites based on player, PC concept, PC level, etc (no clique mentality, it was a faction mentality). They helped each other out and always shared loot and in the least (most of them) traded down to other members and then sold off the item nobody wanted, which in turn kept the faction very strong. They wern't greedy, took care of and included everybody in the faction into just about everything the faction was doing.
Now I'd like to say, what's the point in letting somebody join your fadction if you're going to ignore them and NOT include them in any of the faction activities. Just because a PC fits the criteria for your faction, don't insult and waste the players time by accepting them and then ignoring them. If you are going to send tells to one or two players when you log in about where you are and what you're doing then do it with ALL members or don't do it at all. If you do send tells to one or two and go off doing things without including other members that are IG, then face the facts, you're a player clique mentality schmuck, not a role-player.
You probably shouldn't be sending tells to your faction members or anyone else for that matter saying where you are/what you're doing. FYI.
I disagree cruzel, i think its perfectly acceptable to send a tell saying, "hey are you doing shit right now, me and the gang are chatting, etc" its a huge waste of time to wander aimlessly searching for people.
And Cerberus I dunno what factions you belong to, but usually you get out of it what you put into it. A faction isn't like, hey I joined so now I want free loot and access to everything.
If you join a faction you should earn your status in that faction, and yes, you gain certain benefits depending on what it is, but it shouldnt be a given that you are on equal footing with the people that pushed the faction to prominence or are actively participating in making the faction prominent.
Dash, If you are NOT going to include a PC into the faction activities then DONT accept them into the faction in the first place. Pretty easy logic if you ask me.
I'm a pretty friendly guy. As I tend to try to include people in whats going on. So yeah. Be nice.
lol theres a difference between actively not including, and just not making an effort to bring everybody around all the time. As I said, I don't know any of your specific examples, but theres no reason to expect everyone in a faction to be best friends and always want everyone there all the time.
To clarify: Sometimes you suspect someone of being a traitor. Sometimes your character doesnt like the other character. Sometimes you have some secret agenda. The list goes on.
Quote from: Dash;150519To clarify: Sometimes you suspect someone of being a traitor. Sometimes your character doesnt like the other character. Sometimes you have some secret agenda. The list goes on.
So basically you accept people into your faction that you distrust and dont like. Now there is a cool concept. Lets start a faction of a bunch of characters that dont get along and distrust each other. Oh wait, we already have Banites. Or do they actually include each other in faction activities. Like each one having a secret agenda and not all but that guy over there because... because why? Wasn't he accepted and approved and all that jazz? Hmm... Lets not include him becasue, he's played by so-and-so.
No, you're missing the point. You accept people in your faction but you don't necessarily instantly become best-friends. I see what you're saying man, with being included in things, and it sucks when you are excluded, but its unreasonable to assume that its your player name that causes people to exclude you. And if you have proof of that its an ooc issue that should be taken up with dms privately, not ranted about randomly in the off topic forum.
You make your character known, befriend with others and that results to if the other characters seek you out or not.
It's a fact. Trying to involve others is well and good, but if we are talking about people not hunting you out in irc and tells to get into something all the time, that's not their problem. It's unfortunate, but it's life. You can't force anyone.
Enforcing "Remember to send tells to your faction members everytime something happens, and get them there or be square."
"Take that guy in to this conversation or you're out." Will that work either? It's roleplaying. People play a role and then interact with those it seems natural to interact with at that current role.
Quote from: Dash;150514I disagree cruzel, i think its perfectly acceptable to send a tell saying, "hey are you doing shit right now, me and the gang are chatting, etc" its a huge waste of time to wander aimlessly searching for people.
Here's my proof that it happens... And if he sends tells to one or two members of the faction and discludes other faction members he has a clique mentality.
And I'm not just picking on Dash, I know there are others that do this same thing and it's just frustrating watching the clique get richer and the role-plyers (that dont send or get tells) get poorer.
Cerb,
As one of the founders of the Mithrilsouls, I'm glad you liked it. The RP was pretty good with a very strong element of dwarven faith that linked the PCs and factions together.
There was some very good DM support at times and on the whole it was a lot of fun. PCs were very generous with each other because it was IC and many of the players were much more RP-oriented than interested in PvP and driving plots.
That said, we really didn't have much impact on the server until the Montezzis forced some conflict upon the faction. A few things could have been done on both sides to help develop this conflict in a more enjoyable fashion IMO, but the Mithrilsouls really didn't react well to the antagonization and they were wiped out.
As a faction, we really weren't doing much of impact on the server. While it was great fun to gear up and patrol the UD, smoke some trolls and stomp around, it had pretty much run its course.
So from someone inside the faction, I'd have to say that the Mithrilsouls were a blast, but don't really stack up to some of the better PC factions the UD and the Archiplego have seen.
Is this rant pointed towards the Bane faction? Because I take offense!
As a follow up, having felt like my PC was "ignored" at various times as well although I knew that it was likely my imagination...
Everyone here is right.
Cerb feels like his faction PC is left out. It's a legit statement. Dash and other have explained that there are many reasons why PCs may not include other PCs.
But I'd like to suggest that this type of feeling can be avoided very easily, and here is how.
1. PCs clearly RP with the other PC why they are not including them. This can generate some good conflict and plots all by itself. Probably preferable.
2. PLAYERS of PCs that are not including another PC but have secret IC reasons why they are not doing so - should send the PC a Tell.
"Hey, we didn't invite your PC to the event for IC reasons. Sorry man. But feel free to try to find out why IG."
3. Players of PCs that realize they are unintentionally excluding other PCs for whatever reason should make an effort to contact them via the forums or preferably IG. Problem solved.
$0.02
Mithrilsouls did exactly what a faction of dwarves would do. They wern't trying to save the world, they wernt trying to infiltrate all the other factions, they wern't trying to become all powerful. What they were trying to do was survive and be as strong as they could be, to be a clan. Thats what dwarves do best. Or at least thats what my impression was. If they wanted to they could have had more effect on the server, but their goals wern't set in that dirrection. That I remeber it was the Montezzi's that killed a couple Mithrilsouls, which caused the dwarves to be dwarves and retaliate even though they knew they'd probably loose.
(You know I'm RIPnogarD, right)...
My point is if you accept a PC into the faction, then include him in the faction (which the mithrilsouls did), dont accept them in and say well I dont trust them. wtf, why'd ya let em in then? Or tell them go out and do whatever you want. How do you find out if you can trust them or if they "earned" their way if you arn't with them or they arnt doing anything you want them to be doing or you have no clue what they're doing.
Quote from: morva;150533Is this rant pointed towards the Bane faction? Because I take offense!
NO, it's not actually. It's aimed at the clique mentality players that are part of a faction.
[double post, sorry]
Let me try putting it this way...
You know there is one faction member on because of the player list so you wander around RPing and emoting *appears to be looking for somebody* and then you see two other other of your faction members pop IG and then five mintues later the IRC channel starts scrolling about the quest all three of them are on and how cool it is. Dont tell me those two that just arrived logged in on top of the other PC that was already IG and they were at the starting point of a quest already.
And then there is the fact that I get nothing, not even xp from a DM for walking around with my thumb up my butt (not looking for it, just saying), while the DM's see them RPing together (Maybe even DM spice and loot)...
Like I said, "Clique gets richer and the role-player gets poorer."
XP and Quests don't come from nothing. Try being more active, chat on the faction forums make your own plots/goals known. Ranting in Off Topic will only serve to foster subconscious dislike.
This post is funny for two reasons.
1) no one has trolled.
2) because this has garnered interesting opinions from all ends of the spectrum!
To me, player factions are numbers. You seek to gain as many people to join your faction, and you hope that a few key members will be active and try and report what they seek to do at all times and list their intentions and goals for the faction.
Members of the faction might not like/disagree with each other, and thus, may be excluded at a certain moment of time. It is up to the person who INVITES THEM INTO THE FACTION to involve them, not the people who were ALSO invited.
Shooting tells to fellow faction members stating, "I am about to do trogs, meet me outside kingsman if you are gonna join." In my opinion is a soft form of metagaming, and is 'okay' as long as it doesn't become, "HELP, I AM BEING GANKED BY BANITES IN THE SEWERS." (Apologies for team bane for using them as an example.)
Just my 0.02$ cents.
If the 'tells' of "hey were are you" is what bothers you the most... Then initiate them. You log in, look around, can't find them, then send a tell. Or grab them on IRC...
There are many ways of keeping a group together. But, it takes the actions of the entire group. I've been in a few factions now, and I can say that many times you can feel the odd man out. But, if you don't take the inititive, how can you expect others to?
Now, I've been in some that were excellent about letting you know EVERYTHING that was going on. And I've been in some that are horrible at it. It's not always the 'players' that are the cause, but the actual workings of the Faction. Sad to say not all factions are created the way the Mithrilsouls were. Some are about 'earning' your place, before you gain those perks. Others just offer it right up.
ok, fist I'd like to clear up that I never said PC's in the same faction couldnt have tiffs. But that doesnt mean the players behind those PC's have to ignore each other.
Second, I dont really send a hell of alot of tells unless I have a good kinda OOC reason or it's kinda not really pertenate to IG/IC stuff. I use it to lol and shit at something that was said IG just to let the player know I appriciated it. Or to say sorry for walking away I was just staying IC. Shit like that...
Lastly my point is that if you see playerA from your faction log into game and say "beh" and keep doing whatever, but then playerB logs in and you jump on him like stink on shit, your part of a clique, accept it. You're being freindly to playerB (thats obvious), You're being rude to playerA and and thats wrong.
My point is you shouldn't rely on others to feed you plots and interaction, its a two sided coin.
You must really be quite unfortunate in the type of factions you've managed to drop into.
Having played the role of second-in-command for a long sequence of factions and been responsible for just what you're talking of now - keeping the players busy and organizing them between the big happenings - I've seen nothing of this exclusive-happy attitude within factions. It is a common enough occurance in questing parties without steady ties to one another, but that's simply natural.
Try switching around. If you dislike the "cliques" you see, maybe you should seek out other "cliques" and see if these "cliques" are more open minded to characters in their factions.
I of all people should know, you need two for a fight, and there is always a reason if someones character or the player hangs more with someone else. I highly doubt anyone is being rude or mean to you, because it sounds like you have whole lot of enemies by what you are saying.
I suggest you listen to sylvyr. Take inititive if you want to get in and things to happen. You cannot expect to be tutored and guided through whole story. I am putting a very clear point out here, because this is how I see it.
And you keep saying that you expect someone esle to send you tells and try to find you, but it seems like you never do exactly what you expect everyone else to do. Why are you throwing the responsibility of involving you onto everyone else's shoulders?
I run a faction right now, and I try my best to involve people and you are not in my faction so personally I don't think you have a right to start throwing accusations out at me.
But basically, it sounds to me like you are having a big cry that someone isn't sharing their new shiny toy with you. Get over it, man. It's not everyone else's responsibility to find you and bring you into the fold.
Been playing this game for years and never once seen someone in a faction (DM or PC faction) been deliberately ignored by other members. Either you got severely unlucky with whatever faction you're in or more likely its just a case of misconception.
I've been in a similar circumstance as Cerberus before, so I know how he feels. In my case, being ignored was 100% IC for the PC's involved but that didn't make it any better. So I understand how Cerberus' feels.
That being said, I have also been on the other side of the fence. My current PC is the leader of the Banite PC Faction, and there are certainly a small handful of members that stand outside of the circle of trust for IC reasons. OOCly, I try to make sure everyone is involved on some level when we're doing generic stuff like questing. However, when it comes to plotting / scheming and things of a sensitive nature I do my best to ensure they are not directly involved. All of that can change if they prove themselves trustworthy.
Even still, there are some cases where people are accidentally OOCly excluded.
My suggestion? Send a tell to members of the faction, in particular one of the factions leaders, and find out where they are located. If they are nearby just standing around, find them, hook up, and do stuff. Seriously. I can tell you from experience that you get MORE out of a faction than what you put into it.
In my current faction we have lots of members. We didn't realize this many people would join us when we came up with the faction idea... but in every faction I've ever been in there has always been a small handful of individuals that drove it forward. I realize that most of the people I invite will inevitably go off to do something else, or simply just... be there. Those that are just "there" do not really advance the aims of the faction (or even their own PC!). It is a lot of work trying to find something for everyone to do and keep people busy and entertained daily. Roughly speaking one out of every five faction members recruited will actually be worth the time, energy, and resources invested in them by the faction. (In other words their contributions to the faction outweigh the effort put into them by the leaders and membership.)
So, yeah... my suggestion is to insert yourself into the faction and make them involve you. Invite yourself on quests. Find out where they are and chill with them when they aren't up to anything, and do what you can to advance the cause of the faction, thus in turn making yourself an important member.
Virtually every PC I've had over the years on EfU has been in a faction. I've yet to find a faction that did not go out of its way to support such characters, and it didn't even matter who the players were! And if you think there is some OOC reason that you're being excluded just ask the players in question OOCly what's up. "Hey guys, I'm wondering what's up? You guys keep leaving me behind when you go and do stuff."
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know if someone were to send me a tell like that, I would be quick to include them. Factions hate losing members, even ones that really don't contribute much to the faction. Also, personally, on an OOC level I hate for players to feel like they aren't having fun. So even if there is an -IC- reason for me to exclude them, I'd likely go out of my way to rope them into something, somewhere, somehow.
I hope things work out for you, Cerberus.
Cerberus, if you want a low maintenance inclusive faction, join the elves... We love everybody...
Seriously though, just sounds like you need to be a bit more discerning with your faction affiliations. Hey, not every faction is meant to be inclusive. IC'ly or OOC'ly.
lol wut dud?
its obvious that it a faction has ~15 people, someone can, and WILL be forgotten from time to time.
Neither can everyone be included in everything at the same time. Even with the silly questing, you cant/want to take everyone, because they are too low level to be risked dragged along/you are very low and supplies and you want to minimize the ammount of ppl for restocking purposes/because you dont fully trust a member/because your PC is simply a cunt and will be a cunt/et caetera et caetera
You ought to make sure to get ~all~ the information before you make a judgement, as there is a shitload of factors involved into anything.
Have you actually tried talking with the person/ppl that have wronged you? Speaking your worries and shit? you might have gotten a clear answer right away this way, abd by posting and ranting here, I'm sure that many ppl will think: lolzwtfdudwut.
Though, everyone should have ~something~ to do, even if it's floor scrubbing of the guildhall, and should be treated fairly OOC.
People aren't going to want to hang out with you, and go out of their way to involve you, just because you join their faction. Maybe they should, but that's just not the way it'll ever be, unless it's an extraordinary player who is just damn great at leading a faction.
Yes, there are close-knit groups of players (and characters) on EfU, and the fact that they enjoy doing things together does not mean that you are being deliberately victimized when you don't get involved.
It's hard for me to believe I've got to say this, but if you want to be friends with people IC, then you have to actually become friends with them IC. Whether it should or not, being friendly and engaging OOC helps in a big way.
Ranting on the forums though, especially about something so baseless and inconsequential, however, is counterproductive.
...
I feel your pain, I generally roll on a new server with friends - but that whole wacky permadeath thing scared most of them off for a number of reasons; The following is what I think I've learned about factions to date in the game...
A> Bigger isn't Better.
Sure, the Armada nets you fullplate, but alot of the dm driven/fixxed organizations seem to be hindered by a reliance on dm's because of rank and all that jazz - you play cogs in the machine, which has it's merits, but some pretty horrid flaws as well. On the other hand, two of the best "factions" I've seen to date have been the Elves and the Loyalists (If you can't deal with the floppy ears) - which seem to survive based on player enthusiasm alone, which generally means they're pretty inclusive and theres usually folks around. I would be playing my elf more ~ but his build brings on slight twangs of guilt.
B> Pick based off players you get along with.
A faction can have 20 people, but if you don't particularly know a bunch of them its just 20 strangers that you might or might not get along with -- picking a faction because you like the theme of it might be nice in theory, but your better off getting to know a few folks ic and ooc and see what they're doing. That or follow Thomas around, he seems friendly enough even if his characters have lemming-like survival instincts <.<
Lastly, while it might seem joining a faction would be a great way to see the server? My experience is that it makes for good rp, but also cuts off alot of potential rp with other groups, or makes it so most interaction will be hostile, until you're terribly familiar with the groups ig it seems more advantageous to actually avoid the factions and try late entry. Anyhow, I hope everything works out for you.
Players will be more inclined towards those factions that are doing things, making profit (or whatever their RP equivalent is), have active people, etc.
Factions will look for the players that have initiative and goals they are actively pursuing, etc.
That's roughly how it is, and it's fine like that. Naturally there might be some bumps and the like, or some might deviate from this scheme.
Obviously, it's never going to be perfect in that regard, and maybe some factions truly do have that clique mentality that disregards you. In that case you should probably react to it ICly by displaying your usefulness or worthiness or whatever other ends you want to achieve, or it might be time to look for another faction, or even rally people to your own.
Really, all these complaints seem pretty invalid to me. Many times, as both useful and worthless PCs - mechanically, socially, or otherwise, or even on characters that were pretty much a hindrance to the faction's goals, I was always included when it was deemed reasonable.
On my most successful ventures like with Dread Crew, Montezzi, amongst others - which I was always under the impression were considered widely all pretty successful factions - I never really knew anyone OOCly when I started off in them, and that was always fine. Just keep trying and poke around.
Factions should be used as a tool to further your character goals along and little else. Whether it's DM supported or player driven doesn't really matter so long as they fit whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. If that stops happening while you're in it then you can always leave any faction and move on to something more fitting.
If nothing is fitting then you might need to evaluate your character's goals and see why that is. (Not that it's a bad thing not to fit in a faction all the time, but if you want to and can't then you should take a second look)
I find it funny that ya'll are making a bunch of lame excuses to justify the fact that you are the ones that are members of the cliques. I've been playing D&D longer than most (not all) of you have been alive and NwN for a couple years now I know about level issues and if I just couldn't go with the party and I would NOT be ranting about it if that were the case. I also know it can happen unconciously so if it were once or twice it would be one thing but after the 3rd or 4th time it's not accedental anymore. And I also am not such a moron as to be able to know if certain PC's are on a secret mission or DM event in the Trog or crystal cave or what-not, (NOT).
And as far as it be soft metagaming, like I said, though I prefer NOT to do it I'm not dead set against it. But if you are going to do it then include everybody in your faction not just a select few. If you can't, won't or are unable to include everybody in your faction in your metagaming then DONT do it. I know fairness is hard to grasp for some of you but if we all arn't playing by the same rules then the game isn't fair.
Where do you come up with these absurd assumptions and accusations? I'm baffled as to how the attempts to involve made by various people before your post seem to be non-existent. Are we playing on the same server, here?
With all due respect, if anything, it seems there's a lot more excuses on the whole being dissociated or everything is cliquey side of the argument. While even if these cliques did exist to the extent you or anyone else is willing to believe, it doesn't change the fact that anyone supposedly in them actively pursues to involve anyone else with what they're doing provided it's acceptable and available. I don't think any amount of years over someone else playing D&D really has an effect on that!
As an addendum, even if these cliques do really exist, people play the game for fun - and if people have fun playing within their respective groups, then so be it - it's not like you're forced to subvert yourself to them or something. You are not at any obligation to be given loot, fun, time, whatever by them - nor vice versa.
Cerberus, I am in all honesty feeling offended of the way you lay out these issues.
I did not know anyone from efu before joining to play here, except couple from other server where I had seen them playing. I interacted here, have been playing from 2005, and I've made friends OOC during that time. Never though will I choose a character based on the player. If your characters mindset is preferable to mine, of course I want to interact with him.
I see you taking everything people do as personal action, not as their characters action. Frankly, if you want some action and to join the group of others, then go and ask such. "Heard you are going to charge into this gypsy camp. I wish to prove my worthiness, so allow me to join" or what ever is in your mind.
You cannot honestly come here and rant that people are unfair and push you aside. It's life, it can happen, but I don't buy that happening to you exclusive, or that it is happening without a reason. If someone has issues with you OOC, then it's matter of you two, and it surely has not raised it's head without a reason.
Right, I'm sorry you weren't allowed on a quest or something and got all mad about it. I'm not in any clique here and don't give a fuck how long you played DnD. (I'm sure that goes for a lot of people who are going to proceed to troll you now, or maybe me) If something isn't working out IG for you for IC reasons then handle it ICly. If you think you're mistreated OOCly for being such a kind and modest fella then speak with the DMs.
Pretty much what WastesAreFrozen said. If you suspect you're being OOCly mistreated/excluded, let us know and we'll investigate. If its IC, then deal with it IC.
Never said it only happens to me. There are others that have felt the sting (some even said so in this thread) but they probably just dont want to speak up to be nailed by all the cliques. Hell there is one person I know that use to feel it as much if not more than me but now defends it because they became part of it.
Cliques exsist! They get more RP and questing because of their "soft metagaming" and because they RP and quest together more they end up with more XP, loot and DM attention than those players that dont belong to them and dont "soft-meta".
Representin' my clique.
It's still misleading to call it some sort of 'sting' that these big bad 'CLIQUES' are victimizing you with. No one OOCly really preys on others to exclude them so they can stay within their clique or something - if they do, that should probably be brought to attention to that player or others if needed, nor do I think because someone else happens to be mislead in the same way that this is even that threatening at all.
While this 'SOFT-META' happens, I have never found it that big of a deal to find someone else either OOC or IC for harmless reasons (though cheating in PvP or whatever is sort of a whole different thing). It's not like there are a multitude of ways to find another player via sendings, running around, asking around, hanging out somewhere, marking a spot, and probably a bunch of other stuff I haven't bothered to think of.
This is a fairly small community that welcomes new players happily to it's ranks, however learning to know other people personally is different. None here tries to exclude other players from plots/questing/hanging or whatever else except for IC reasons. If someone here does that, which I doubt, he/she should consider that this server is truly small as mentioned and we can't expect to find much more new players in the coming years so better hang with those who we have, get every new player tightly interested and share the fun as long as we can.
And to your point: Yes, cliques exist but most of them are ready to welcome new friends when you learn to know them. These cliques are not made because they could quest and get DM love together rather those have formed during many years of playing time with your friends with whom you want to have fun outside EfuA too. If your character stumbles to them and asks whether he could come for the quest, unless they got an IC reason they most likely take you. When server is low on players, I've multiple times received a tell from a player I've never known that is something like "There isn't many around and I can't find anyone. Was wondering if you're around somewhere and would like to quest or something?". This is fine and as long as the arrangements are made IG too.
Factions usually have IC ways to contact other members about big events and so on and these are not dedicated to single persons only (unless IC reason, once again...). When faction members quest, they do not always go quest together. Faction members are not supposed to be all allies and they have disagreements too.
Personal issues with other players are different. Not everyone gets along with everyone. But I doubt the whole server is full of guys who don't like you and try to stay out of you and your characters. Worried about this? Make a secret account and none knows who you're playing. But I doubt this changes anything else than makes you harder to contact.
Keep it cool.
I think this is an awsome PW server and the time and effort in the setting (specially back in EFU) is over the top I love it. I think the majority ot the players are great role-players and IG/IC are cool.
If you feel offended or upset about anything I've said here, it's your own guilt causing that, not me. Because quite honestly I am getting quite the laugh out of most of this, I am simply stating facts, I am not upset or angry at all. :p
LOL.
I suppose the thread name and consecutive postings don't suggest otherwise.
I've noticed that people want to hang out with me more when I'm not all whiny and bitchy.
F the Haters. FBF!
I will never post anything to Off-topic again. Never.
If this is all so innately funny, why bother mentioning it instead of just laughing to yourself?
I really don't see why anyone's 'GUILT' should be acknowledged, nor am I capable of understanding how you are so privy into my guilt and/or upsetitude levels and would sincerely appreciate it if you could enlighten me as to how you've come upon this conclusion. I don't really see why you feel the need to acknowledge you aren't upset and/or angry either.
Only trying to offer helpful advice and straighten out all the misconceptions aforementioned!
Quote from: Lulzebub;150650I've noticed that people want to hang out with me more when I'm not all whiny and bitchy.
Quote from: Halfbrood;150651F the Haters. FBF!
[shakes head] tff, lol... Who's doing the whining and hating, me or you? :p
Forgive me if I misconceive the posts of they or yourself, but I do believe they made such remarks in jest.
[shakes head]
omg, I give up. lol
Tell ya what, soon as I get home from work I'll jump into IRC and give ya'll my cell phone number and we can become bestest buds and drive across state lines ta vist each other and play kissy face huggy bear and shit.
But I have to say... Proof is in the pudding.
I promised not to post but posted nonetheless.
Well sir, I'm not sure I really understand your pudding analogy. Maybe if the pudding was some figment of my imagination I was too stubborn to accept as false.
If you wanna do some of the former I am up for it though.
Cerberus, please stop being vague. You have beat around the bush forever, claiming mysterious groups have wronged you. I think instead of this huge rant forum, the kind of 'cliquing' you seem to be claiming exists on this server is a completely OOC issue and one that should be brough to DM attention privately.
Either that or you are a master troll.
+1
There are factions that are a closely knit group with a purpose, having few members and rely upon trust to keep going, and there are the ones that widely recruit people where there are no limitations to joining. Having been a part of many factions and lead a few myself, I know a lot of how difficult it can be at times. Being a leader of the faction is tough because you are expected to be the most notable in pursuing the group's agenda (and making it!), recruit people, get interest and maintain it. All the while, you have to attend to the faction's members and try to do something that you hope is fun or interesting for everyone. It's a tough burden and ultimately, the faction's success depends upon you and your members. It is not a position many wants due to this and when a faction leader dies to something, the group will often fall slowly apart.
As a member of a faction, you have the opportunity to really shine by helping the other members and the leaders out in pursuing the goals. As mentioned earlier you get out of the faction what you put in it. It is only natural that the leaders will attend more to those who help push the agenda. Yet this does not mean that you are ignored. Try approaching the other members and get along on the stuff that is being done, then you'll see the interactions go more smoothly and you are able to dig into the more serious parts of the faction. No leader seeking world domination will tell the grunt all the steps in his plan, but a good right hand helping to pursue it will almost always be knowing.
The players on EFU:A have always been a helpful and approachable bunch, both in-game and OOCly. The fact that so many have posted in this thread to try and offer you advice and help should back that statement up. If you believe you are being mistreated OOCly, tell us about it. We'll know for sure. Yet nobody likes to reach out with a helping hand, only to have it slapped back in his face. Accusing people of being in cliques and insulting them when they try to help you will brew negative OOC feelings. A positive and relaxed attitude helps a lot to counter it. Sure, a lot of people find it more fun to roleplay or plot with certain other people but none that I know will push others aside. My advice to you is to chill and listen, ask the leader of the faction about your concerns in a positive note and I'm sure everything will work out. Feel free to send a private message to me on the forums as well.
Now, I am going to lock this thread because it has run its course and I don't like what it has turned into. If anyone has something constructive they want posted, I'll open it again.
+1
I think the critique was more on "clique" behavior rather than "factions", i.e. groups of OOC friends sticking out with eachother.
We've always promoted people to try and change their 'clique' from time to time. Change the people they roleplay with and so. It's a good habit to have and make you a more interesting player. And it's definitely true that you are usually friendler or act better toward a member of your clique (as an enemy or an ally). It's usually because the players are from the same age group, same region, or same cultural background and just understand eachothers easier.
A good benefit of new accounts is that you can create a new first impression. Sometimes you will get a poorer treatment because you are using a new account or got a default nwn description, or a default nwn portrait, or dont emote or speak in a very eloquent manner. But it happens to everyone and it's usually not the entire playerbase that treats you this way.
Some of my own characters have been 'rejected' or 'ostracised' out of events, quests, meeting, etc. Sometimes its because you are playing too original a character that has low charisma that you cant really have a group with you. It doesn't mean you can't have fun, find your own group that works for this character of yours, and roleplay. Maybe you'll be successful, become a name for yourself and then its going to be the turn of the characters who rejected you to come back grovel for your attention... Or maybe not.
It happens to everyone. Perhaps moreso when you are not that well known by the community.
But I doubt thrusting a knife at the community as a whole, singlehandedly, and going "This is your fault! Why am I not..." is the right way to approach this.
Cerebrus, I'm real happy for you and I'ma (not) let you finish, but the Stouthearts were the best player faction of all time.
OF ALL TIME.