Taking into account bottles and wands, a wand of endure element costs 607gp and has 25 charges while 25 potions of endure elements cost 625gp. Taking into acount that potions may be used by anyone while wands only be some, and seeing the price diference is very low, i'd suggest the wand price to be dropped to 520gp (+7 from the bone wand).
Protection from elements has the same problem but worse, 25 potions cost 2375 gold, while a wand with 25 charges costs 3007 gold. I'd suggest this price to be dropped to 2000 gold (+7 from the wand)
Resist elements surely has a similar or same problem, but i don't know the prices. It should be fixed.
Slightly off topic, ironguts potions & wands have the exact same problem (and values) than endure elements.
Hm!
520 for a wand like that is incredibly cheap. Too cheap for a wand.
Don't the other level 1 potions cost around the same? The game goes for the wands (except Shield) If that is the case, then there is no need to change this.
One should also take into account that a wand weighs one pound, while twenty five potions weighs two and a half pounds.
However, I have my own questions about wands in general, and will be making a suggestion on it soon, heh.
And wands can be used on other people, like a wizard who just hides invisibly during quests to buff and heal others.
EXIle:
Or trades gives potions to the others, freely. It makes no diference whatsoever to brew potions or craft a wand, except that, in resist elements (maybe) and protection from elements, potions are cheaper. Also, if we're talking about wands, a wizard/sorcerer/bard/rogue w/UMD must be present, with potions a barbarian can do so. Since this spells last for 24hrs or untill used up/dispelled, you can drink them before each battle... of before each quest, or before planning to go on a quest.
In the case of endure elemetns and ironguts the price diference is extremly small (18 gp), I thought as a general rule a wand with 25 charges would be singnificantly cheaper than 25 potions of the same spell?
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Scruffy:
Are you really willing to spend 632 gold to take off 1.5LBs of weight from your inventory? I have a wizard with 7 STR, and i wouldn't.
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Afro:
Endure element potins cost 20gp to brew +5 from the bottle, meaning 25 will cost 625. The regular wand price is 607. So it's cheaper only by 18 gp. or nothing. Wands should be singificantly cheaper than potions, if 520 sounds too low, 560 maybe would be fine? Ignore the number if you want, but wands must be cheaper than potionm IMO by at least over 40gp at level 1.
Quote from: ExileStrife;152588And wands can be used on other people, like a wizard who just hides invisibly during quests to buff and heal others.
This hardly makes any sense as an argument since potions can be moved around / sold / given to others. Not to mention I don't think I've ever seen a wizard who created a wand like this to buff people with during quests. 99% of wands are probably made on request for people who use them when a wizard isn't around.
Leave the goddamn crafting system alone.
"let's buff or nerf things according to only what we see and never any speculation"
So, delfaro, you agree 25 potions of insulation should cost less than a 25 charge wand of insulation? Or are you just randomly trolling?
Drakill Tannan: I really don't know, as Walther rarely ever buys anything >,>. I just wanted to comment on the weight difference, only because it hadn't be noted yet, and in my case, 1.5lbs can be a very important factor.
I have completely no idea what the criteria is for the DM/Devs to balance out craftable wands/potions, and as such, it's hard for me to really make a decision either way. That is, assuming there's a list of criteria that they use for balancing. Are wands supposed to be more expensive or less expensive than potions? (As I don't have a crafter for either, I wouldn't know :P).
KershoSetic:
I don't know any wizards that do that, as you say, but I do know at least one cleric that does. At great cost to the player, actually. But they do use the wands as extra castings.
And if this spell was changed from the norm, why was this change made?
This is such a weird suggestion
Quote from: Relinquish;152605Leave the goddamn crafting system alone.
Splitting potion stacks and using the barter menu in the middle of combat is extremely efficient.
Using buffs in the middle of combat is extremely efficient and relevant to this discussion about economic pricing.
Originally Posted by Relinquish
Leave the goddamn crafting system alone.
P.S I dont know how to quote. :P
But not as effective as the use of a wand, being my point.
Quote from: 9lives;152625Splitting potion stacks and using the barter menu in the middle of combat is extremely efficient.
QFT
So it was intended?
Since most level 3 wands cost 3000gp, most level 1 cost 600 but the potion prices are diferent, i assumed you simply had missed that.
Guess such wands are supposed to be useless then? If so, just close the thread then.
Hmm. As the player of one of the more prolific brewer and wand crafter PCs for a long time.... how the hell did I miss this on Ahmed? O_o
Probably as this is rather redundant anyway. Of all the wands I made on Ahmed either for personal use or sale, none of them were more expensive than pots. The L2 wands are significantly cheaper than potions by something like 3-400 gold, the L1 wands are slightly cheaper and worth it for the lower XP cost and weight, plus ability to use on buddies if needed. The only thing then that's strange is the L3 wands costing more than pots. It's because unlike for L2 spells there's not two tiers of cost, one for defensive buffs (cheaper) and one for offensive spells (more expensive). Furthermore, as every crafter seems to put a way higher markup on pots, unless you make them yourself, wands are always way cheaper.
I'd suggest lowering the prices on some of the buff spells, but not on Haste or Displacement. The reason being, that a wand of those is already about 1000 cheaper than the pots if you're buying off a wizard, and easier access to those would hand a huge bonus to bard/full BAB or mage 1/full BAB wand users, and UMDers. Although, TBH the only thing that I'd see people buying wands of would be PfElements (maybe).
I'd also like to make an aside suggestion on the L3 offensive wands. Nobody ever uses them as they are a huge investment in firepower that's rarely used since it's very expensive for what it does. Wands of Acid Arrow and Darkness are decent affordable weapons, wands of Fireball ain't. I think that if they instead were made as 5-shot weapons for 500 gold each, they might see use as contingency gear. Mages get a bit stiffed on useful consumables due to the lack of class restricted offensive spell charge drops compared to say, unrestricted potion or buff-casting drops, and the option to have reserve firepower would be handy. Fireball wands would be the same sort of cost as an emergency weapon as a few haste potions.
Scrolls aren't great as it takes a round to read them and half the time your target steps out the AOE or your ally moves into it on an auto move.
I'll give you 13 gp every time you craft 25 potions if we can just stop talking about this.
no way let's make the more practical option 13g cheaper. that totally needs this discussion
While i agree egon, about the damage dealing wands being too expensive, if we go there this will go totally off topic.
DMs, a question, Was it intended for potions of protection fomr elements to be cheaper than wands of the same per charge? Or it wasn't but you wish to keep it this way?
I agree with OP, but honestly, no one is touching item crafting unless you find a way to get haste charges for like 10 gp per or something equally exploitable. Just roll up a barbarian and mug people dude.
To be fair though, in previous eras of EfU your posts involving price comparisons of the crafting system likely would have been locked and editted for zomg server sekritz, so we seem to be making some kind of progress.
Quote from: KershofSetic;152604This hardly makes any sense as an argument since potions can be moved around / sold / given to others. Not to mention I don't think I've ever seen a wizard who created a wand like this to buff people with during quests. 99% of wands are probably made on request for people who use them when a wizard isn't around.
Is this wholly true? I got excited and made a wand of blur and it only works on me! Not exactly useful for getting the fighters buffed.
Wands work exactly as the spell does. If the target is usually self only, the wand is self only. If the range is Short, the wand has Short range and so on.
Meaning a wand of blur is usefull only for you, but potions are not. Protection against elements spells however can target someone else, and so can a wand of it.
But this is going off topic. I'd really like a response from a DM.
We're in heavy discussion at the moment, RE: the issue.
If a wand is more expensive than a potion, and you don't feel the need for a wand, then don't buy/make it.
???
Has it been decided if this will be modified?
why bother breaking something that's fine
Because it's not? Besides i'd rather have a DM answer, Delfaro.
It wont be modified.
It doesn't need to be modified.
Both feats (Brew potion, Craft Wands) have lots of utilities. Whether 1 spell is more cost-effective in potions or in wands doesn't matter overall, so long as this spell is not broken.
Crafted Wands, overall, are extremely useful.
Brewed Potions, overall, are extremely useful.
Enjoy the fact that they are cheaper to make as potions!