Hello.
I created this thread to see what the residents of EfU:A think makes[/u][/i] an interesting, memorable character.
Personally, I feel that it's in fact very difficult to create such a character, and requires much preparation.
Most of the characters I've played, I think have not been interesting, or memorable. Thus, I [And maybe those like me(?)] come to you with an inquiry about what you think makes an interesting, memorable character.
Preparation? Eh. If you're apping.
Flexibility.
Having a personality.
Realism.
A developing story.
EDIT: And not least:
Humility (mainly as a player), and being able to cope with and handle a gradual change of your character and his personality as you progress in power, find allies, and have events happen to you.
Quote from: Tankerman;156478EDIT: And not least:
Not being too damned full of yourself at level 2.
Nothing that ruins my impression of a good concept like someone who goes on about how great they are at level 2, or 3, or 4, after they just got their asses kicked by kobolds.
This kind of attitude encourages the "don't be bad ass until level 20" mentality and I strongly disapprove of it. Characters who suddenly become hard men after level 6 aren't too impressive. Dakarai a character of mine whom went on to be greatly feared was exactly the same at level 2 as he was at level 9!
Back on topic
Characters aren't created memorable. They're played in a memorable way. There is no recipe for creating a memorable character. It just happens if you play any character and do great things.
Oh and as far as I'm concerned what MAKES a memorable character is somebody who can get people involved. Never shys away from conflict and just makes things fun for everybody involved all the time.
There is the concept of "gradual improvement". I think you've heard of it. Nobody is badass at character creation. "Levels" is a way to reflect this, and just playing a character that doesn't change no matter how powerful or weak she is, is just static and entirely uninteresting to me.
But I editted into something more reflecting the sentiment I wished to convey.
I don't think a memorable character always has to be a successful character.
I remember a lot of characters that failed early on that were pretty awesome, and going out with that oomph may have been that much more appealing then getting stale and searching for a finish.
In fact, I'd say I remember such quirky characters a lot more. Those are the ones that do risky interesting things regardless or level or their mechanical prowess consistently because that is what their character would do.
I think you're both way too focused on the mechanical aspect of what I said. Nevermind, back on topic.
What makes a character truly memorable is not any innate quality of the character itself, but in how much they involve other characters in their story. The character who is connected to many other PCs by RP, be they allies, enemies, bystanders or something else entirely, will be remembered for their actions by the rest of the playerbase and quite possibly be remembered longer than they live.
A part of all great characters, and an important one at that, is that they have clear visible goals that they intend to achieve (some goals are also more subtle). No matter what happens or what setbacks are had, they continously strive towards those goals. From resurrecting Myrkul to rule of a city, from being the most famous hero to the most infamous villain; everyone have their dreams that they want to come true. So is it with your characters. That is a part of what defines them.
To me what creates an interesting character is not necessarily what creates a memorable character. Those two things are separate.
An interesting character merely is different and breaks out of the standard mold. I love interesting characters, but sometimes being unique can also result in being eventually forgotten due to a lack of importance. (In short: such characters are unique.)
What makes a memorable character is largely based upon the player. These types of characters are crafted from the beginning, they have goals that are designed to involve others. The more people they involve the better. A memorable character is a character that impacts and influences everyone directly or indirectly, and ultimately such a character leaves a significant mark on the server.
The easiest way to create a memorable character is to create goals that are designed to involve others and do large and significant things even if you think you'll be unsuccessful at them. (Not being afraid of failure is very important.) The easiest way to create an interesting character is to look at what has been played in the past, and take your own spin on it.
I love both types of characters.
Quiet loners.
Quote from: Iron Oligarch;156485What makes a character truly memorable is not any innate quality of the character itself, but in how much they involve other characters in their story. The character who is connected to many other PCs by RP, be they allies, enemies, bystanders or something else entirely, will be remembered for their actions by the rest of the playerbase and quite possibly be remembered longer than they live.
This is probably about the best you'll get for such a broad question. It all really comes down to providing for the community in a big way, whether you're the asshole character they all want to shank or the pillar of hope they look to for defense. No one, NO ONE, will ever make this type of character every time, at least in my opinion, so there is also a bit of luck involved with the situations that come up in game.
Quote from: 9lives;156501Quiet loners.
I wish you would share your success story with everyone Ninelives. I'm sure everyone will be inspired to hear about how you got where you are today.
I think having a sweet name like Aleczumberzeil te Esoterotept helps a lot.
Consistency of character values in the face of oposition and success in portraying those character values to other players and DMs. You had one PC I remember, your rebellious dude, who was distinct in his values, and while I was a player at that time and probably going to snuff out your candle when I found you so I never interacted with your PC, I do remember him.
Strong values are huge. I may remember the knight that charged the dragon to save the damsel but got eaten more then I'll remember the PC that says he is a knight, talks like a knight, but never does anything knightly (I understand some this is opportunity.) Have character traits, honor, virtue, cowardice, etc and reveal them to other players, and show those players you play them even when it is inconvenient. What player that played with GLORRY GLUMGAR could forget the morose six cha half-Orc coward w/ teddybear that needed eagles splendor cast on him before he would lift up his sword and crush stuff. He stuck to this so well it was staggering. Rats would almost kill me because Gorry could not deal with them. You do not have to be min-maxed, but play your character traits in a revealing way, and stick to them when the going gets tough. If you overcome, you'll be a hero, and if you fail spectacularily atleast you may be remembered.
Quote from: VanillaPudding;156510I wish you would share your success story with everyone Ninelives. I'm sure everyone will be inspired to hear about how you got where you are today.
Mad IRC skills.
I don't give a damn about VP's sarcasm. Earas Nightstar was a fantastic PC.
Except ninelives is incapable of playing such a good Elven character.
Stop worrying about what other people think of your character. If you enjoy your char, it will definitely show. I don't think anyone started playing NWN saying in three years "I am going to impress everyone become the most well remembered char on efu!"
Goals are great, but passion for your character is unbeatable. You can really tell when a player takes pride in their character regardless of how you may judge them.
fd someone important
INTERESTING:
- A neat background story you can drop clues/insight about during your character's tenure
- Believing in something strongly (lawful governance, getting drunk, beauty of warfare, tribalism, fighting evil, thievery, etc)
- Fears
- Distinct mannerisms you can emote (adjusting spectacles, doffing your cap, polishing your blade, smoothing your mustache, etc)
MEMORABLE:
- Projecting your character's beliefs (speeches, posters, etc)
- An identifiable agenda
- Having enemies
- Conflict with enemies (blackmail, framing, spying, murdering, slandering, dueling, planting informats, etc)
- Being a part of a group, or even better, leading a group
- Being unafraid of conflict regardless of odds
Power, levels, goals, blah, blah, blah, this that and the other thing...
It's a game, have fun! The more fun you're having with your PC the more others will enjoy RPing with it and the more memorable that character will be. IF you're not having fun then neither will the players around your PC and they will find another PC to have FUN with and your un-fun PC is forgotten.
Smile and the world smiles with you, frown and you frown alone.
Caddies suggestions are great.
Basically, look at what TRB does for an example.
Then do the exact opposite. Win.
How to make a memorable char? Easy get a band of cronies and do shit. Weather its forming your own mercantile empire or plotting your own military dictatorship.
2 make your goals known and prominent and help other chars with their goals. I remember when with my corrupt goon Koinus Sten I saw the Montezzi brothers. At the time Sten thought they were both big knaves gathering a band of idiots and morons. Both proved to be his undoing.
3 Also more importantly you should condemn and plot against evil even if it ends up with your chars assasination their is nothing truly more good aligned then dieing for your philosophy for that is the most ultimate thing about being good.
Here is my guides.
Prominence for an evil char.
1 Gather likeminded PCS
2 Do evil deeds that make you known and get other good/other evil pcs wanting to slay you for your acts this will make enemies and hold fun. Ive not seen a single evil group not have enemies. Weathers its from the Montezzis Olid Praxes Ortred Craddock ETC. If you are evil and feel that you are to sucessful or no one is standing in your way deliberetly go out of the way to make enemies.
3 You must go out the same way you came in. an Epic Manner weathers its being ganked killed in an honorable duel to the death or simply death in an epic battle your death should be well known and epic. Or you can be stripped naked in the sewers and forced to contend to someones sick game that is also an epic way to go out. '
Gaining prominence for good
1 Gather a goon squad of good nuetral and evil PCS (unless your a paladin)
2 Do Epic shit in the name of goodness and dont be total pansies. Weather its having a revoloution or simply trying to form your own settlement free of evil and corruption. Take up steel and slay the forces of evil in all shapes and sizes. If you are prominently a good figure you will be recognized as such.
Being an epic balanced PC
You are above the extremes of evil or good and you know it.
1 Do whatever action is best for your cause or goal even if its evil and could make you evil.
2 Have goals that include both good aligned and evil Pcs. Some of the best factions are led by non evil non good people like the sanctuary Watch.
3 Gather friends in all places.
Notice no matter what alignment what your goal is what you need is friends/goons to help you Dms love players who include other PCS even if such attracts enemies it contributes more fun/and conflicts for the server.
drd rocks my world
Memorable character: be in game a lot and talk about the shit you do on IRC. Not comfortable with self-promotion? Pay other people to talk about the shit you do. Make a journal, and write in it once every several days. Be sure to link the newest one in IRC as soon as you write it.
I am sorry, I don't know how to make an interesting character. I tend to just start with a gimmick, and add angst. That seems to work alright.
Aasimar Paladins.
memorable
Honestly I think all the advice in the world dosn't matter, I've had alot of characters and almost wrote this big long thing about different chars i've had and what they achieved. It does not matter though, only one thing matters.
IF PEOPLE WANT YOU TO BE MEMORABLE.
Hate to say it, but regardless of how great your char unless people want to remeber it, it won't be remebered.
Two examples briefly.
I had one char who hit all of Caddies memorable check marks, at that time was highly memorable, and even did some mildy important changing events. He lead a group, had a clear agenda, posters, well defined enemies, took risk, and was betrayed, beheaded in a dm event/pc ambush. At that time, I thought he was highly memorable.
I had another character, who did ABSOUTELY nothing, short of sit in the back of taverns and pretend he had all this inside information. He had no groups, he had no real power, he never took risk, he had no enemies. He did nearly everything solo, where as the above did everything in groups.
Yet it is the second character that people remeber to this day. You can have Dm attention, a pc faction, friends, enemies, intersting concepts and agenda and at that moment in time have everyone know you. In the end though it is up to the players about what types of characters they personally find memorable.
For instance, I found recently, Kethra Marsk (Sp?), no clue who played her, highly memorable. Now all I saw her do alot was start shit for no apparent reason, but it was amusing to watch. :)
shameless self promotions
because if it's not apparent then there must be nothing there
Each persons idea of memorable is their own. All that matters is if you're having fun and it's memorable to you.
As far as successful. Again, one persons definition of this may differ from anothers. Successful to me is making a PC that is fun and doesn't know what the fugue looks like. Others think going to the fugue means nothing and their PC's change the server but they are immortals that died 99 times in doing so. Now if you can have fun, change the server and do it with single digit deaths you are accomplishing something IMO.
(I still feel it should be a Con point loss instead of XP for death.)
I once put this question to Kotenku in reference to Cail Durris, who by any measurement was a very memorable character. I liked his answer.
QuoteEvery single thing you say or emote should say something about your character's personality.
I've tried to keep to that rule ever since then, and the results have been quite satisfactory.
*scowls*
Ask yourself this question: Does this make me look badass, or lame?
While I believe it is good to have your character's background before you make him, what I love doing is making a char, than changing him/developing him as I play (No I dont mean levels) for example, following a new god if circumstances led to this, becoming evil/good/lawful from chaotic etc, joining this faction and changing to join this faction etc.
I never make my chars and have them set in stone, while I do take alot of time, developing them beforehand, I just love to see them change/develop/evolve/whatever as you play. This is my most favourite thing to do, rather than making a char and sticking with the same concept until he is dead/retired.
Personally I think there's something very badass in playing a PC who isn't badass.
Quote from: Kotenku;156819*scowls*
Mmgh.
I find that if you create an interesting personality, augmented by an interesting background, and interact with people, things naturally fall in place. Some people are able to pull off a successful character who is a complete recluse, but usually with the help of some friends who join them in their quest for being anti-social.
I personally think your character needs to have the "epic", or the "awesome" trait.
Basically, getting other people involved. It can be in PvP, or RP conflict, or even just helping your character press through his weaknesses and strengths. You should enter the game with basically an empty slate, and allow other players to impact your character.
Nothing brings more to your character than having his/her enviroment and "group of friends" effect his/her life.
I have not read through all the responses, so I'll reply to the original post with my own perspective.
[COLOR="Red"]1.) I think your character has to have weaknesses and fears.[/COLOR]
For example, I had a female fighter in the Underdark who was TERRIFIED of rats. You know how many times rats were used as summons? Well that allowed her 'badass' nature to crumble to pieces every time one was summoned...even if it was in a boss fight. She'd freak out and run away! Made for great RP before, during and after the incident.
[COLOR="Red"]2.) the character experiences growth.[/COLOR]
Being torn away from the world you once knew (via a teleporter to an island or stolen as a slave) will change your perspective on life. These changes force maturity on them. This is harder to do unless you have regular players around to see it change. Also growth does not necessarily mean XP and higher levels. I had a paladin who didn't realize he was a divine warrior. As he met others of his faith, he grew to understand his abilities.
[COLOR="Red"]3.) The character must fail sometimes[/COLOR]
Having your own bravado thrown in your face is a real way to learn a lesson. Loss and failure is a good way to grow your character. Learns from it, even stupid characters will learn from messing up. Also failing gives you another avenue to RP, instead of using the "Yep, I'm badass, accept this!" sorta approach. My first rogue ever on the server, used to try and sneak past beholders only to be zapped with death ray. Lesson learned IC, even though OOC I knew better. My paladin in the underdark was a knight of Arvoreen, which meant he had an oath to defend any halfling in danger. This often meant staying in a fight longer than was OOC practical while everyone else got away. Sometimes a halfling would die and he took such failures harshly...he kept every citizen stone of every hin he failed to save with him until his death.
[COLOR="Red"]4.) Have them get into arguments with other characters or have an 'honor' duel. [/COLOR]
This allows richer interaction. I had a paladin in the underdark who used to regularly argue with Seeker Toman about how to accomplish goals. Both were good aligned, but the paladin was Lawful and Toman was Chaotic. Some really wonderful Law vs. Chaotic disagreements happened and the result was a richer character development. Also solving problems with combat (via a duel), also allows a degree of interaction that you don't get just hacking at monsters. It allows both players to engage in pvp, but without the risk of loss (sometimes).
[COLOR="Red"]5.) Have a full back story conceived.[/COLOR]
Several of my characters have a rich and interesting backstory. sometimes the backstory doesn't come out to well (Corrine Lenner was a blacksmith, but never got to forge a single weapon in her career) other times it fits all the time (Halas had about two dozen failed careers before arriving on Ymph and thus is a jack-of-all-trades), having these and timing the RP for when times are quieter and screaming less generic "KILL IT!"-esque statements is often a way to show the nuances of who you're playing.
[COLOR="Red"]6.) Stick with the character! Longevity is key! [/COLOR]
Most of my characters have suffered epic defeat, sometimes going from level 8 all the way back to level 2 in only a few days. Yes, its heart breaking and devastating, but its got an upside! I wanted to throw my computer out the f-ing window. But I stuck with it and he became a fixture of the server. The longer you stick with a character the more exposure he has and the more opportunity he has to make a name for himself. Its also a good chance to redo lower level quests to gain supplies if you weren't slain to PVP/robbed by muggers. Corrine Lenner was robbed once by montezzi's and then later on was killed by an assassin, but I stuck with her. Even though it boiled my blood! My patience was rewarded as Corrine went on to become my first (so far only) level 9 character. Her assassination death (by way of poisoned bolt) also ICly gave her resistance to poison (by way of during a re-level, I took Resist Poison feat). So it had unexpected results that turned out great.
[COLOR="Red"]7.) Involve other players!
[/COLOR]
If your character has a personal quest or goal, make sure you find others that are willing to help achieve that goal. Even if its just making a sending every time you log in to gather people and go exploring because you want to unlock the secrets of the universe! For example, Halas is a thrill seeker, so he's always wanting to do dangerous stuff, he's constantly trying to rally people out of their boredom. My paladin in the underdark, was searching for his lost cadets, and so was always leading expeditions to far flung sections of the server to search for clues. Having a backstory that facilitates this
So in short,
1.) Have the character have an Achilles heel or three.
2.) Have the character experience personal growth
3.) Have the character fail (related to #2)
4.) Incite or engage in conflict
5.) Flesh out your back story, make it applicable to the setting if you can.
6.) Don't give up!
7.) Don't be a loner! Involve others!
Hope this helps!
Excellent post, dj!
OMG, it's Ommadawn.
lol poison bolt. :D
[Stamps the DJ post with his special green Stamp of Approval.]
Somebody copy paste DJ's post and put a sticky on it.
not all agree with all of dj's list! Although I agree with most of it, #6 blows chunks big time. Anybody, and I mean anybody, like even a retarded monkey can make a memorable character because the friggen thing is immortal (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYOE_b4aYD0&feature=related%22) and JUST WONT DIE! How hard is that?
I dont think I've ever had a PC with more than 8 deaths and that was Rippley "the Ripper" Ripplebark. (and he was almost 9th level at that point.)
In reference to #6, I think he is saying that make the death meaninful. If his / her death was the 'right way' or 'good ending' for the character then go for it. It's those that just get aggreviated and perma on the silly things that are depressing. Especially if you have a character that was doing things.
I'm still old-school enough that I feel loss of a Con point is what should happen with each visit to the fugue.
A) That would make those immortals that can only have a meaningful death by being decapitated in PvP not so eager to run around dieing only because then they are the strongest 3rd level PC around with their 6th level gear.
B) It's really hard to RP the fact that yesterday my PC could cast X or brew potions, etc, etc and now they forgot for some strange reason.
C) The fact that they are "Doing something" doesn't justify weather it's a meaningful death. I have been witness to meaningful deaths that didn't die. It only proves my point about even retarded monkeys can make memorable characters as long as they keep ressing.
A PC that accomplishes something with few deaths vs a PC that accomplishes something with many deaths... Which PC is more successful? Which PC earned the more memorable title? All this ressing takes away from the PC's that didn't die 99 times. There are some memorable PC's that wouldn't have been anything had they let go after they died double digit times.
Define "Meaningful death"? What death isn't meaningful? (And dont give me that game glitch stuff, I know that one already.)
You really should be having fun with your pc and quit worrying about what others will think of it/you, or how that other play/pc stole your glory.
I wouldn't be here if I wasn't having fun. And I can have fun with almost any PC I make. I dont need to make an immortal to have fun.
Nothing against any players or memorable PC's that fugue alot, honestly. We all play by the same rules so it's all fair. It's my prerogative to play the way I do and makes me feel that much better about those PC's I make that do obtain the goals I set out for or are simply fun to play.
My point with #6 was more urging against ragequit when you randomly get mega-critted during a quest and its sheer bad luck, instead of the unwisdom of rushing in (without IC reasons) to do so.
I see lots of new players, get frustrated when they have some bad luck and simplyquit. I just wished encourage people to stick with a character through difficulties.
Frustration can come in more ways than just death also. Sometimes faction members that are crucial to your characters goals die off. Or, you lose a DM-loot item that was key to your goal.
I suppose I should amend #6 to include these frustrations as well, because they shouldn't be permanent setbacks to a players next Epic character.
i think bad luck can spice things up if everything goes perfectly that is kinda stale