I had a few suggestions for a few necromancy spells/abilities
Animate dead: It seems like the corpse I can summon is pretty good, except that it has weapon focus longsword, and well.. no sword. To make matters worse, I'm not sure it has a creature weapon at all, because it always draws attacks of opportunity when it attacks (getting it killed pretty quick). I would suggest maybe allowing the player to give it a weapon some how, having it spawn with a weapon (creature weapon, or some other sort, i.e a sword) or giving it improved unarmed strike.
I did notice the animate dead I used today, seemed a lot better than the one I was using yesterday, so there might have been a change over that addressed the issue of the zombie sucking really bad, but this might have been overlooked.
Contagion: This is a 4th level wizard spell and it is absolutely worthless. After casting the spell, which includes a touch attack, the victim gets a save vs incubation. After that, another hour IG is required before a save is called for. That's 27 minutes at least, with no effect. Once the save is called for, the subject must pass a ridiculously low fortitude DC that is as low as 12 and as high as 16 or take minuscule stat damage. Usually 1d4 to a particular stat depending on what disease the victim was afflicted with. With the abundance of disease resistance items and the ease with which these diseases are removed, having this spell rely on long term effects seems to make it completely ineffectual. I would suggest something more along the lines of instant incubation and maybe 1d10 stat damage, like str or con (or str and con). Keep in mind, diseases only affect a limited number of creatures and 4th level spells do other things like, oh .. instantly kill people. I think also making the disease incurable without magical means would also be acceptable.
Create Undead: I found an item that cast this at 11th level, it spat out a ghoul. A fairly weak ghoul. Perhaps these summons could also be looked at, although it will be a fair while before anyone is capable of casting this or even containing the creature that it summons.
Well, Contagion should maybe get a boost for clerics of Talona, and I would recommend palemasters and wizards getting some customization options on their undead.
But the brute spells alone are already powerful enough.
(Create undead has some cool features to it, RP wise, Just need some checking)
Hammerfist, the problem is that no one under any circumstances would bother casting the spell, ever. It's horribly ineffectual. In that case, which has been the case with other spells that have been modified, it should be made as a viable choice for a 4th level spell for anyone, which it currently is not.
Casting animate dead on a corpse animates it.
But anyway, my issue with buffing it is that Palemasters and Clerics are the only ones who will likely be casting it at this point (See many, many of my previous, outspoken rants), and neither of them need any further power.
I was talking about Contagion, and actually no, currently animate dead does not animate corpses. It is disabled.
Contagion definitely could use a change. More specific suggestions for implementation would be great.
Contagion
On casting fort save for d4 str and d2 con damage.
One round later -2 ab and skills
Third round another fort save, if saved the -2 ab and skill go away, but the stat damage stays. If failed d4 dex damage.
Fourth round fort save, if saved consecutively with the last save the str damage goes away, if second consecutive fail 20% speed decrease, if first save the -2 ab and skills are removed.
Contagion would defiantly be cool boosted, as long as animate dead remains the same.
A few ideas:
-Flies effect on person (Make it obvious they are sick)
-Unusually high DC for Salutary Tonics.
... Yeah. Thats all my ideas.
I know about a few custom diseases that could be contracted in various places in the Underdark. Ooze Sickness or Corpse Rot or whatever they were called. If Contagion caused those, and immediately, that would be fine I think. It's just that the spell is A, too slow and B, too weak.
As someone who plays a cleric of Talona, I would love to see one or more of the following changes to Contagion:
- A variety of disease effects - Ebola will eat your flesh, masturbation will make you go blind, etc, etc. Having Contagion slap an effect on someone, such as blindness, silence, or wounding would be good for RP if nothing else.
- Instant fever - The Contagion spell should have an instant stat effect, at least a -1, preferably to STR or CON. You're already going through so much to make the spell work, if it hits you should get something immediate for it.
- Actual contagion - All the trouble it takes to actually get the spell off would be worth it if you could infect one person with a specific disease and let them spread it to others.
- Items which can be activated with the spell - Rather than actually changing the spell, it could be altered to be useful with buckets of guts, rotting meat, or other similarly filthy objects in the way Animate Dead is used with corpses to create undead summons. You could use this to create ammunition (dung balls), infectious placeables, catapult ammunition, or whatever you can come up with.
It's called CONTAGION.
It absolutely MUST be contagious. If someone has it, they should be spreading it.
Perhaps making contagion more customizable, increasing the selection and allowing access to more deadly diseases as one climbs in caster levels?
As long as it's contagious, so I can run up and give the caster a great big hug, I don't care what you do with it.
Undead animals would be awesome. But is it possible?
Yes, I've been playing NwN now for a few years now, and aside from the occasional NPC/Monster that casts it, I have never seen it casted, on me or anyone else. I think that making it contageous, having instantaneous effects, and having customizable effects, like changing the disease/type of stat damage, so on and so forth would be AWESOME.
So, my little suggestion on the topics of Animate Dead/Contagion:
Contagion:
Contagious Contagion: The contagious thing would be good, I think that every few seconds your character should *coughs* or *sneezes*, and anyone within a few feet then has to make a reflex save at say... DC 10... To avoid being infected.
ZOMBIE CONTAGION: Yes, I know, sounds like resident evil, but I think that upon reaching caster level... 12 or so, you may choose a form of Contagion that has no effect until an opponent dies, when they become a zombie after 1 minute (Caster level x 5% chance of this happening), and are hostile to all non-zombies. This of course, would be contagious, and until cured of the contagion you would run the risk of spreading it to others (so, technically, you could carry the zombie contagion, still be alive, infect someone, kill them, and they turn into a zombie).
Animate Dead:
You can cast animate dead ONLY upon a corpse, after all, you are animating, not creating undead (see Create Undead spell if you want to create undead, get it?), the creature animated retains previous HD and Racial Type, but gains the Undead Subtype (hence, an Undead Elf would gain +2 Spot/Listen/Search and have Keen Sense and Hardiness vs Enchantment, Proficiency with Longsword, Rapier, Shortbow and Longbow), but would lose pre-existing levels, and simply level up as a fighter with Con 3, Dex 10, and the same strength it had in life, Int is 3, Cha is 3, Wis is 10.
Contagion: make it 24h duration at lest, CON drop drastically, +another stat various with the kinda of disease, and of course: make it contagious!
I really should compete with PhK.
Have 'Turn Undead' act as a mass Animate Dead for evil Priestly types!
There's a quite good amount of diseases in the game by default. It would be really nice if all/most of those could be accessed through that spell, either as random or selectable. Lots of diseases with different effects.
Would be nice to have that with Poison spell as well.
EDITED: Some of the best (or worst) diseases and poisons could require spell components.
Spell components... Ah, the greatest way of stopping the spamming of spells.
I agree, though, they should require spell components for the better forms of the spells, pulling out my 3.5 PHB I'm looking here at the components for some spells. Contagion has no component, though here are a few of the diseases it has: (parenthesis are my own extra notes, other things are stuff that was in the PHB)
Blinding Sickness: DC 16
-1d4 temp str damage
-If 2 or more damage is dealt to str, the victim must make a second fortitude save or be permanently blinded. (WOULD BE CRAZY IF IT WERE CONTAGIOUS)
Cackle Fever: DC 16
-1d6 temp wis damage (not to say the character can't stop laughing, as in the Tasha's Hideous Laughter spell, but rather, his sanity is attacked, and the damage to the mind causes the character to laugh a lot)
Filth Fever: DC 12
-1d3 temp dex/con damage (I'd imagine a feeling of weakness and sluggishness, possibly adding 1d3 temp str damage to this as well)
Mindfire: DC 12
-1d4 temp int damage (really bad headache, maybe a 1d4 wis and 1d3 cha damage, since the character can't think straight)
Red Ache: DC 15
-1d6 temp str damage (you just feel weakened)
Shakes: DC 13
-1d8 temp dex damage (the bane of just about anyone, 1d8 dex damage is a major blow to any class, save paladins and monks, who are immune to diseases)
Slimy Doom: DC 14
-1d4 con damage
Okay, so yeah, those are some of the diseases from the PHB. My honest opinion though is that if you want to EVER see a necromancer cause plagues and the such that wreak havok on the Ziggurat (that would be awesome, would make a great quest/event) that these stats should either be bumped up or the damage should be immediate, not delayed for 27 minutes.
On to Animate Dead, though:
The player's handbook says that a Black Onyx Gem worth at least 25gp is required for the casting of this spell, the gem being placed in the eye socket or mouth of the corpse, which is then turned into a worthless, burned out shell after the spell is cast. I think this is good.
However, I don't know exactly how the Animate Dead spell differs from Summon Monster spells, but no one will ever summon an undead that lasts for 3 rounds/caster level if they have to find a black onyx gem worth 25gp (I recommend just having people sacrifice 25 gold as a component for the spell, if a component is put in, which is doubtful).
Undead should be permanent (if they aren't already), of course, they should always suffer the effects of the spell Bane when caught in sunlight, if they aren't already (Undead + Sunlight != Strong).
So yeah, all the suggestions I've made so far on this topic I believe will help the RP of Plague spreading/Body Animating necromancers a whole lot more interesting.
My suggestion for Contagion:
Target makes a Fort save or recieves 1d4 + 1/3 caster levels con damage and is inflicted with a random disease. (or maybe scale the disease with the caster's level) If they save, no con damage and no disease.
I want animate dead to work on the following creatures:
Seagulls
Leapords
Giant Lizards
and Parrots.
Any plans on allowing the animation of dead PCs anytime soon? I'd love to see that... I heard they did it on CoA but I never saw it..
The thing about animating dead PCs, is that you need to make a copy of them in order to do it. It's fully possible to script but, there are a few (pretty big drawbacks)
Mostly though, it's Lag. Copying that much information and then creating it somewhere else can introduce a spike when it happen.
Then there is balance issues, AI issues, Loot issues, etc. Lots of issues :(
DM's have let people Animate people before, though, so with a DM you can totally do it.
First a question, are we all getting ready for a big zombie attack for Halloween or somethin'?
And second, I feel that there should be a place where necromancers can 'store' their undead when not in use, akin to say, the animatrons that the Spellies gave some people.
I wish turn undead 'harmed' undead, like 5 points positive damage, and the allied undead are 'healed' by 5 points.
Possible?
I don't see how turn undead could heal friendly undead, thomas. :(
Necromancy's hard to do, and thus I believe more rewards should be involved for those who reach a higher level. Yep...
that's my bit.
Quote from: petey512;90227I don't see how turn undead could heal friendly undead, thomas. :(
Necromancy's hard to do, and thus I believe more rewards should be involved for those who reach a higher level. Yep...
that's my bit.
First, at the bottom right side of page 159 in the 3.5 PHB, it has things to deal with Evil Clerics and Bolstering Undead. This does not heal them, nor make them stronger, but rather it increases the strength a cleric must be to turn them. Healing undead by turning them (as, after all, evil clerics radiate a lot of negative energy when they turn undead) isn't too much different.
And yes, I agree, necromancy should be something that takes longer to get strong in than other magic. (Animate Dead=5th level Wizard/Sorcerer spell/3rd level cleric spell, Phantasmal Killer is also high level, and all those other nice, dark and evilspells)
Oh yeah... this is all very good stuff. It's mostly taken care of though, so I'll only comment on the animating PCs.
Someone mentioned CoA. Implementing their system should be nixed for one reason:
Tobin Sett.
RUN AWAY!!