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As we all know, this spell is devastating if it's raining and a waste of a slot otherwise. I haven't seen it used since the change, as even if you rest outside a QA, it can be clear skies within when it's raining outside. I'd like to suggest changing the spell to  do 1d6 damage per 2 levels outside a rainstorm. "Thunderbolt from a clear sky" or a small localised storm. Useful for quests, not really dangerous enough to make you scary to PCs outside of a thunderstorm, where you should be.

For this. Call lightning is a great spell for druids now rarely used.

I'm for this, though obviously balance would want to be checked and all that good stuff.

Who would waste a spellslot for call lightning if it did 1d6 per 2 casterlevels? lol.
This suggestion is kind of funny because that would mean call lightning would do, at level 8.. 4d6 dmg, aka 24 damage on maxrolls, and then the opponent can avoid half or the whole damage by making the reflex roll.
So again, who would waste a spellslot on a spell that has an average damage (per PC it hits) of 12 which in many cases will only be 6.

But at least the suggestion was quite funny.

Because egon is suggesting that it be useable on quests. On a quest such as vrazdn, even 4d6 damage on -all- enemies on the aoe radius is still highly useful.

Frankly this spell has become rather redundant.

Though maybe 1d6 per single caster level wouldn't be too op. Then it is essentially the same level of spell as fireball. without the great range and the same spellslot.

I don't understand what y'all are griping about. Druids can rest in any place where call lightning could ever be used. If it starts raining, you can swap out your spells without much of a problem.

I (and others) have been having incredible fun with this spell. It rains almost constantly on Ymph. The spell gives me a reason to look forward to the rain, and I don't really feel like I'm missing anything when it's not raining.

Please do not nerf this spell.

EDIT: Before someone tries to correct my use of the term "nerf," don't. The spell is presently balanced against all the other possible spells on the server, and if it gets used more, the damage has to be reduced or it becomes too powerful.

They dont (if i remember correctly) do more damage than a fireball. They are fine the way they are.

This is from the list of mechanical changes on the website:
 

QuoteCall lightning: 1d10 damage; works only in exterior areas when it's raining, and will be attracted to lightning rods; affects all targets in area.

Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't rain as much as I'd like it to whenever I go around questing. I think maybe a non-rain version of the spell wouldn't be a bad idea. I would suggest when it's not raining, the spell radius being changed to a lot smaller than it is now, perhaps only hitting a max of three or four targets.

Call lightning is 1d10/level?  Holy crap.

Quote from: athousandyearsofpain;162530Who would waste a spellslot for call lightning if it did 1d6 per 2 casterlevels?.

Someone who already had it prepped quite literally for a rainy day, and then the sun comes out mid quest or on an area transition and suddenly they have a duff spellslot. Making it do 1d6/2 levels without rain in would be better than nothing. Read the original post again and you'll realise I suggested adding this option for when there isn't rain, in addition to its "Rainy Pwnage Time" mode.

This way it would be 1d10/level as it is now, when it's raining, so you'd still not want to wind up a druid in a thunderstorm, but it will also do *something* if the sun suddenly comes up. Do remember that the rest timer stops you being able to instachange in most cases. As Eq points out, 3-4d6 is still enough to kill or weaken a bunch of goblins or other weak numerous enemies, which tends to be the main use of big AoEs. It wouldn't be OP by being good in both rain and sun. It would be awesome in rain, and a weak but still usable AoE without.

Quote from: Portal RatPlease do not nerf this spell.

Er... O_0. This is an idea for a slight improvement that allows it to be used for flavour rather than super nuking when you haven't got rain.

Quote from: athousandyearsofpainWho would waste a spellslot for call lightning if it did 1d6 per 2 casterlevels?.

Someone who already had it prepped quite literally for a rainy day, and then the sun comes out mid quest or on an area transition and suddenly they have a duff spellslot. Making it do 1d6/2 levels without rain in would be better than nothing. Read the original post again and you'll realise I suggested adding this option for when there isn't rain, in addition to its "Rainy Pwnage Time" mode.

This way it would be 1d10/level as it is now, when it's raining, so you'd still not want to wind up a druid in a thunderstorm, but it will also do *something* if the sun suddenly comes up. Do remember that the rest timer stops you being able to instachange in cases where you've just prepared. As Eq points out, 3-4d6 is still enough to kill or weaken a bunch of goblins or other weak numerous enemies, which tends to be the main use of big AoEs. It wouldn't be OP by being good in both rain and sun. It would be awesome in rain, and a weak but still usable AoE without. You'd still get your "SHAMAN SMITE WITH LIGHTNING FURY" kicks if the rain fizzles out on you, but you couldn't expect it to do that much without a storm to call from.

Just use Flame Strike

Quote from: Gwydion;162548Call lightning is 1d10/level? Holy crap.

Certainly explains something, doesn't it? ;)

Quote from: Egon the Monkey;162553Er... O_0. This is an idea for a slight improvement that allows it to be used for flavour rather than super nuking when you haven't got rain.

Quote from: Portal Rat;162535Before someone tries to correct my use of the term "nerf," don't. The spell is presently balanced against all the other possible spells on the server, and if it gets used more, the damage has to be reduced or it becomes too powerful.

Egon is suggeesting the spell is usable normaly, but also when it's not raining. When it rains it remains unafected, when it doesn't, it is nerfed, but only when it's not raining.

I can't agree more. TBH calll lighting is -the- druid spell anywhere else, but i haven't been able to use it on a quest or PvP EVER.

Sometimes (well, every time i can remember), even if it is raining just next to the transition to the SQA, when you enter the SQA is NOT therefore making call lightning useless in quests. The only uses i've seen on call lightning are:

1) Being owned by an NPC stargazer shaman
2) Have Naaxayatl scare the shit out of people when on non conflictive RP.

I understand 1d10 damage should be limited, but aren't we here in an agreement that RP posibilities and fun overweights realism? Egon's suggestion would make it somewhat usable... somewhat. At least it wouldn't be a waste when i prepare it, enter the scalemount and misteriously stops raining.

But i would say 1d6 per 2 caster levels is still too little damage. I'd say 1d8 per 2 caster levels.


However, i'm all in to keep it as it is if the following is done.

1) Make SURE when it rains near an SQA, it is also raining IN the SQA, always.

2) Make rain last longer. I remember sometimes due to people going AFK, "wait for me, i need to buy arrows", or a random PC passing by and starting a covnersation, it stops raining before i can get into the SQA. This only encourages rushing into the quest for the pure mechanical power rather than RP arround.

So make the rain last longer.

1. I understand perfectly well what Egon is suggesting. As I have said twice, and now a third time, the spell is balanced in its present form. If it is changed in the manner Egon suggests, [COLOR="Red"]the damage will have to be reduced because the spell will be ridiculously out of balance[/COLOR]. The reason it was limited to rainy times is because it was given a damage boost. Remove that limitation, and suddenly you've got a very different spell. I'm not sure how to make this any more clear.

2. Quest areas? Are you serious? Think about that for a moment. Three level 5 druids could finish the wolves quest in about six rounds. Scalemount could be done in about half the time. Orcs part 1 wouldn't even be a challenge. You'd end up with a server full of nothing but druids and clerics of Talos and Valkur. No thanks. I don't see a whole lot of fun RP possibilities when everyone is waiting for rain so they can go quest and zap the shit out of everything.

3. This is the most powerful spell in the entire game. It can potentially deal over a thousand points of damage. You can literally wipe a whole party with it. You can turn the tide of a battle in your favor, even if every single one of your opponents has powerful elemental protections up. You can clear out whole areas with it (try using it in the Webbed Wood sometime). It is the closest thing to a win button you're ever going to find on EfU:A, and yes, it can only be used in the rain, outdoors, and not in quest areas. If you call that "a waste of a spell slot," then quite frankly you should probably stick to melee until you figure out how to make more effective use of your spells.

It's fine, if you prepare it, you are taking a big risk in hoping it'll rain when and where you need to use it, and even then it's pretty counterable by a quite a few things

I don't want it to change.  I'd kinda like this spell to stay as a more risky choice, rather than one that always has an optimal payoff.  The risk is exactly what was mentioned in the original post, "you might be wasting a spellslot."  Yes, that rain may never come, and if you're a druid that wants to always have something to offer, Call Lightning may not be your best choice.

However, if you would like to be a druid that likes to wait for the perfect moment, here's a spell that will blow off everyone's socks as well as the faces of your enemies with 1-d-10-fricken-damage.  That's 1-d-10-fricken-sweet.

Other notes:

Yes, nearby areas should keep similar weather.  That functionality is scripted, but sometimes builders can label something with the wrong region which can cause bordering areas to have this problem -- if you notice that happen, feel free to report it!

If it's not raining enough for the likes of your druid, maybe you should make it rain more.

There's nothing wrong with rushing during a rain storm.  They don't last forever.  It makes 100% IC sense to say, "Hurry, this storm won't last much longer!"

Druids can rest practically anywhere, making it very easy to prepare the spell on the spot if you come across a rain-storm.

I don't think there are any DMs that are interested in this spell just becoming an electric version of a wizard's fireball again.  Wizards are balanced to have those.  Druids, with the million other things they can do, are generally accepted not to be.

This particular spell has been discussed to death and it probably won't be changing for awhile.

--

Hell, and Portal Rat mentioned something even more obvious that I forgot.  Nature factions tend to be pretty common, so having something like 3 or 4 level 7 druids is not unusual -- it's almost a norm for those groups.  That means, at any point in time, that group of characters can unleash an instantaneous 28d10 (or more) damage, and it's not like they are sacrificing anything major to have that ready.  I would argue that no other group of characters could ever have that capability.  Perhaps maybe a solid group of Spellguard or a solid group from the Conclave, but you have to app for both of those!   Any group of nagas and kruntos could just roll up a couple of druids and have the server under their thumb.  Holy SHIT what is going to stop that?

Quote from: ExileStrife;162586Any group of nagas and kruntos could just roll up a couple of druids and have the server under their thumb.  Holy SHIT what is going to stop that?

This made me lol.

The more weather is something else than vfx backdrop the better! More stuff like this, I say!

needs moar npcs using this spell

curse those 'nagas and kruntos'

Quote from: derflaro;162624curse those 'nagas and kruntos'

Bascially portal rat, this spell should only be usable when not-necesary, because it is so powerful, if used when necesary it would have to be toned down?

In that case, reduce it to 1d8. But i want to be able to use it.

As i said before though, as long as there is enough rain (wich there is) and similar weather in adjacent areas, specifically SQAs, i prefer it to remain as it is,

This spell is terrible, more often than not a waste of a slot. I know this from experience.

It was majorly nerfed from its last incarnation, where it could be used anywhere anytime and hit only enemies in the radius for 1d8. Giving it 1d10, restricting it to rain-only and making it hit allies rendered it useless for any PC who builds around this spell (such as a cleric of Talos).

TBH I'm all for reverting it back to its former state. Never again would I bother taking this spell, I think I used it like twice in three weeks as a cleric of Talos and I died in PvP because I wasted slots on this spell.

Quote from: Drakill Tannan;162642Bascially portal rat, this spell should only be usable when not-necesary, because it is so powerful, if used when necesary it would have to be toned down?

I don't accept the premise of your question. Its use has nothing to do with whether or not you need it. Its use has to do with whether or not it is raining. As ExileStrife said, there are ways to make it rain. If you need it to rain, there are about a half-dozen different gods in the FRCS pantheon you could pray to for rain.

The quests are designed around parties that don't have the ability to rain hundreds of points of damage down from the skies. If it rains in quests, then all the quests have to be modified so that one class doesn't have this amazing ability to get experience points faster than any other.

If, on the other hand, Call Lightning is changed to grant even the limited functionality Egon proposes when it is not raining alongside the massive pwnage it gets during rain, then it becomes more than just the most powerful spell -- it becomes the only spell worth taking. A spell with that kind of versatility puts the druid class far above any other. Level 3 druid spell slots would suddenly become the most efficient method of dealing damage on the server.

In short, it's a lot easier to just leave the spell alone than to redesign the whole module. What is so damn hard about resting when the rain starts? Even for a wizard this is easily doable.

If you got struck by lightning in real life... how much damage do you reckon that would do? :]

Quote from: Portal Rat;162658I don't accept the premise of your question. Its use has nothing to do with whether or not you need it. Its use has to do with whether or not it is raining. As ExileStrife said, there are ways to make it rain. If you need it to rain, there are about a half-dozen different gods in the FRCS pantheon you could pray to for rain.

Relying on DMs to change the weather for you isn't really reliable for obvious reasons!

QuoteThe quests are designed around parties that don't have the ability to rain hundreds of points of damage down from the skies. If it rains in quests, then all the quests have to be modified so that one class doesn't have this amazing ability to get experience points faster than any other.

That's not really realistic. AOE spells no matter their damage (and especially if you can't cast them near allies) have always been superfluous on quests. No quests would need to be rebalanced at all.

QuoteIf, on the other hand, Call Lightning is changed to grant even the limited functionality Egon proposes when it is not raining alongside the massive pwnage it gets during rain, then it becomes more than just the most powerful spell -- it becomes the only spell worth taking. A spell with that kind of versatility puts the druid class far above any other.

Again, I'm sorry but that's not close to being realistic at all.

In general, I think you are giving this spell too much credit! Even with Egon's suggestion, its still not very good.

The world is over... I agree with Caddies.  I also add that a druid should be able to call lighting from any cloud in a tropical climate, it is magic right?

If anything this will make people keep those fickler helms!

I think an as-yet unconsidered solution would be to make it even better in its limited-use-potential, so that every time it rains, people fear those nagas and kruntos.

Quote from: Caddies;162668Relying on DMs to change the weather for you isn't really reliable for obvious reasons!

Quote from: FleetingHeart;145676Perhaps instead of asking to change the spell, you ought to be asking yourself how you can change... the weather.

Quote from: Caddies;162668That's not really realistic. AOE spells no matter their damage (and especially if you can't cast them near allies) have always been superfluous on quests. No quests would need to be rebalanced at all.

I don't even know what to say to this one. AoE spells are superfluous on quests? Oooo-kay.

Quote from: Caddies;162668Again, I'm sorry but that's not close to being realistic at all.

Quote from: ScottyB;153267Spell mechanics aren't about anything IRL, they're about providing (balanced) options and versatility to people with magic. There may be other things in electrical spells vs. fire spells that you're not considering; for example, range, prevalence of save gear, etc.

Quote from: Caddies;162668In general, I think you are giving this spell too much credit! Even with Egon's suggestion, its still not very good.

Ahem.

Quote from: Caddies;125031Now that Call Lightning depends on rain/storms, I think reducing either would be bad. It might be sheer chance, but I have noticed lots of proper thunderstorms replete with bolts of lightning of late, and its fucking awesome.

The spell is staying as is, and you won't hear me complaining about it at all. If you don't know how to use it, that's on you.

Call Lightning just seems entirely optional to me. Obviously there are people with credibility that both would like to use or not use it. I think that's basis enough for it to remain as is.

then again it will anyways so why bother lol

Caddies can go eat dirt.  That's what I have to say.

Portal rat: You mean, call lightning is supposed NEVER to be used on quests? Then where? Is it meant to be a PvP-only spell that might work if you get lucky?

Return it to 1d6 damage if that's the case, but i want to use it on quests.

All i know, is that i've never been able to use the spell when it would be usefull/necesary. And that i wish could be changed.

"I want...I want that..."

It's fine as is, and makes hell of a lot more sense!

Actually it doesn't make more sense since it's a divine power granted by a deity and not nature (in this case). The changes have made it far too situational in my own opinion.

Yes, I am disagreeing with some members of the DM team. That was already obvious, you don't need to juxtapose various quotes.

Have you actually played a PC who uses this spell as one of his main 'themes'? Its next to useless. The power of a good spellcaster is his spell efficiency; having any number of slots dedicated to a spell that can only be used depending on extraneous circumstances beyond his control is a waste.

And sometimes even if the stars align and you're able to pack this spell on a quest where there are exterior areas in which its raining its not even able to be used because it also damages allies.

Of course, as you inferred I don't know how to use the spell so perhaps you could give me some tips.

Strife's name is so appropriate.

I'm playing a cleric of Talos currently, and I have to agree with Caddies. I try and have this spell prepared as much as possible for some flavor, and 95% of the time it goes unused. This is because it doesn't rain in some quest areas, even though it may be raining elsewhere. Also, although I've had luck summoning the rain, most of the times I try, DM might not be on or might not be watching.

The previous version of the spell (which I wasn't around for) sounds like it would be a much better fit for any PC that uses it for RP flavor, as well as combat.

If you guys are afraid of having a bunch of druids around that would try and abuse the spell, an interesting solution would be to have two versions of the spell. Since druids more or less receive their spells from the natural, you can allow them to use it only during the rain. Clerics could get a modifed version (as the previous version described by Caddies) that allows them to call divine lightning, regardless of rain.

This would keep the spell flavorful, and limit the usage as well.

Clerics are way underpowered.

True

As a druid this was one of my favourite spells ever. Now it sucks.

"oh but its 1d10! OMG! SO OP!"

Not really it used to be 1d8 anytime, anywhere. Much better, makes druids scarier than they are. which currently isnt -that- scary.

If not nerfed in non rain. Change the whole spell  back IMO.

Having lived in the midwest, multiple lighting strikes to an area is quite common with or without rain. Lighting storms are common place even in with little cloud cover. I've seen the rare lighting strike that occurs without any cloud cover, that is just a lighting strike.

My agrument is that for the spell Call Lighting, is that rain is not needed, just a few clouds or a bit of overcast.

Perhaps the Scripting Guru's could script something along the lines of alerting players to what the weather is actually doing.

Every two hours IG, a scripted shout describes the weather patterns for that moment. This leaves room for dramatic weather changes that are experienced by the isles.

It sounds simple enough, and would likely make the spell more useful.

QuoteThe spell is staying as is, and you won't hear me complaining about it at all. If you don't know how to use it, that's on you

162677].[/quote]

I can't believe the amount of sheer panic provoked by the thought of even a L8 Druid raining
on multiple enemies when outside of EfU the spell is a straight 1d6 a level and even misses allies. Are there a lot of 8 Con Wizards with pointy copper staves about? XD. The original spell was was OP for a cleric really as it was so useful to fire at your feet in a melee. But having to aim offsets that.

Call Lightning is such a cool spell but without making weather control easier (and everyone else then complaining "It never STOPS bloody raining now") it's not seeing use. Right now, the best use of call lightning is on the couple of class unrestricted items that have it as a CL5 spell. You can just have them hotkeyed whenever it rains, whereas a spell is out for 25 minutes whether it's useful or not. IMO, if this isn't changed, I'd suggest the following:

• Remove the Curious Contraption's Call Lightning Charges for 1 charge/use L5 Burning Hands shots or something.
• Have some drops that are restricted to Druid and Cleric with an OOC note "Do not use as a Cleric unless you have Storm or Air Domain".

Result, people think "Oh Shi...." when a Cleric of Valkur emotes *raises a Stormcloud pendant in one hand. Sparks start to fly to it*

If anything, I think that it should become more possible and reliable to create rain instead of change call lightning. Maybe something like an alchemical recipe, or consecration creatable by druids and clerics of storm inclined deities, or any way to not have to rely completely on luck or DMs being online?

I know a certain Druid/Cleric that cant wait for a change to be made to call lightning spell. :twisted: He'll be all overit like stink on shit.

As it is, he doesnt use it.

DC 25 Rain Dance check for Pure Bards only.

While I'm all for pursuing something like having an edge on the weather, if it becomes easy to make it rain, the power of this spell will be reduced.

Rain is fine as it is. As long as it rains in SQAs too.

However, it is still a longshot. It has happened before that i rest, prepare spells and then 10 minutes later, it rains. Other times, i log and it's raining, and i say "Yess finally i get to use the damn spell for the first time eva" and when i'm in the middle of the way (or enter the SQA) it stops raining.

The best thing one can do IMO is make a wand of call lightning, mind you, this would be usable by druids only, exluding the clerics that could cast it as well. Also Drefs suggestion of allowing PCs to make rain without any good reason to sounds a bit harsh, controlling the weather should be dificult.

I think everything would be ok if the following was done:

1) Have it rain in SQAs.
2) Get rid of the call lightning casting stuff avilable for all clases.
3) Add loot for druids and clerics with air domain only, that can cast call lightning.