Can you see about lowering the difficulty or upping the exp of this quest? You get as much exp as doing orcs and orcs are way easier and the reward is roughly the same from what I've seen.
I've not had that much of a problem with it. The loot end of Trolls is significantly more steadier and generous then orcs, which I find more random.
I don't think trolls is necessarily more difficult than say, orcs. I think different characters and strengths are more-so able to shine upon trolls, than what is typical on most other quests, and such seems like a good thing to me.
I feel like bringing along more people on that quest is much more of a burden on that quest than others, which is all around undesirable, but it is just a result of the nature of the quest. Maybe some endure element item placables that disappear on reset along the way could help ease it up for those needing.
The main problem, as usual, is the dispel spam. It's pretty ridiculous on this quest and without a dedicated archer you're going to get dispelled and use more supplies than you'll find.
Yeah, dispel is just so messed up I've had it removed acid sheath and displacement and also the basically onhit puss spore that do 10dmg are quite deadly, maybe add a reflex save to miss them?
All I hear is "This quest is tough, change it!"
Come on, dude. Its not meant to be rolled like no problem. As always, efficient and intelligent questing will result in both a good time and a good reward relative to the costs.
I've done this quest quite a few times, its one of my favorites. The risk/reward ratio is perfect. You can get great loot and it definitely gives decent XP.
I'm failing to see how having a dedicated ranged support PC on your team in order to cruise through the quest is in any way a bad thing.
Mate I'm sorry but quests are there for the players to have fun and if every other player who has posted has remarked on how difficult and deadly it can be surely you should take it under advisement.
Personally, I think it would be great to see more quests where ranged support is a bonus. As it stands this is near the only one where I'd say it was pretty necessary.
It was fun to switch tactics with my gimp one-armed sorc. He switchs from sling to dagger back and forth to provide ranged support for the {spoilers}, as well as held off the flanking trolls that circled around just long enough for the mashers to come back and mash them.
I will say that you need at least two, preferably three solid melee builds to lead the way.
lol I've done this quest with just 1 melee build.
I like this quest as is.
Done this one 3 times.
Two manned it on my first go, and found it to be challenging and worthwhile. Used a full range of buffs and a few consumables but managed to still keep it profitable. This was awhile back.
Had a big group that rolled through it a few months ago but I ended up using all of my healing on my lower level PC. Got some decent gear for my troubles though.
Got wasted on it recently frontlining after I drew like 15-20 trolls in the starting area (managed to get me through a range of buffs and Expertise no less). The dispel spam was a factor (3 times at the start), but moreso I'd argue the sheer number of trolls coupled with the party composition was too much to handle. Wasn't a bad party or strategy, but this particular run was definately scaled for a different group.
It doesn't desperately need a change as in its current incarnation it can be playable and profitable if approached correctly. I think potentially reworking some of the wider zones (such as in the starting area) in order to help limit the number of trolls the party gets hit with might be nice. The upper end of the scaled spawns can become very problematic in this area if you arent carefully exploiting the sight range of the AI and slowly working your way around.
Why is every other suggestion about changing something that is a little difficult?
Toughen up. Don't ask for something to be changed if it can get your dudes killed.
Whenever I did the quest, it had a pretty decent reward for the difficulty level.
Not everyone is supposed to be as easy as trogs or harpies.
If a quest is much more difficult because you take many people, then there is your problem. Just do it with fewer people or do it with people that know what to do.
Go back to spamming trogs or harpies.
Its good with a hard quest for real men like Plum and Magister.
The quest is fairly balanced and reasonable.
While I have done this quest with some hard nuts without problem, the other day we had a moderate party, nothing that would seem to indicate a massive spawn, and the first wave of trolls over ran the party.
Not that this shouldn't ever happen, but it did seem like there were an awful lot trolls compared to previous runs. I cannot say I hope to understand the mechanics of the static, but either there are some unusual random factors, or the quest does not scale very well with size. The type of secondary range mob that spawns next to the melee and pus trolls also makes a big difference, although if this is random or average level triggered I dont know.
I am wary of a quest that is only doable if OOC knowledge is used to make it manageable, such as small party only for this one; or the spamming of ranged attacks on small lights a good distance away to prevent dispels and lure mobs.
Just as an aside, why the hell with all the machismo? Why can someone not say they think a quest is too hard without getting flamed? Did we join the army while I wasnt looking?
This quest is fine, it encourages you to take a decent shooter, with one of them its actually pretty easy.
Simple solution.
Tell -any- single full AB class to bring a ranged weapon and shoot things! You don't need any feats to be a decent archer!
Better solution...
Have a preset range weapon drop somewhere at the very begging of the quest. Not saying magic bows or anything, just a few normal bows and ammo. If the players don't get the hint to bad so sad.
If DM's make a quest where something is needed to complete the quest (or will make it that much easier) then they should make that 'whatever' available somewhere in the beginning. If the players use it they use it, if they dont they dont, if they think about it latter in the scenario they can run back and grab that certain something. But to say use your OOC knowlegge and bring "X" with you before you start the quest is silly.
Your group is a seasoned troupe of adventurers. Hardly silly that some of them take a bow and arrow or a crossbow and some bolts along. :p
And while long range makes it simpler, I have done this quest where one or two of the frontliners saw the lights cast there annoying stuff on first encounter and the rest of the quest they ran straight to that light, (yes, attracting huge mobs) killed it, and did fine throughout the quest.
It isn't the DMs 'job' to supply the player. Its the players job to use their brain to make sure there character is well supplied. The only PC that likely doesn't run around with a bow or any projectial weapon is the Stygians, because long range weapons are for wimps.
If your playing an axe wielding maniac or sword and shield hero then perhaps your party should have the usual suspects, one them being a scout with a bow or some PC with a ranged weapon. I don't know, boost your PC's INT and WIS score and make that informed decision easier.
I do have to go back to the DM's 'JOB' of suppling the character. The DM's job to supply character can be seen just about everywhere through the server including the first place most new PCs visit, the visitor's tower and there in the donations chest that appears every reset is A) A sling B) Bullets. I'm not a genius, but OMG!
1) It appears before the adventure;
2) The DMs supply it regularly;
3) Its not OOC knowledge to be prepared;
4) Its your own damn fault if you don't have a ranged weapon because your DEX is to low.
The server is supposed to be challenging, not a table top PnP hold your hand monty hall adventure.
Commenting on this briefly... since... ugh... I didn't want to wake up right now, but now I can't go to sleep...
I did a run not long ago... first one in a long time... we had about a group of 7, with a lot of support casters. We rolled through it fairly well, and yes, the dispel was near-fatal for frontliners at time (only with massive amount of support casting was it successful).
The thing I noticed though.... was... (and I don't -think- this is too much of a spoiler) With our group of 7... none of the trolls that toss rocks spawned. Not a single one. Were these removed from the quest in an earlier update? or is this some sort of spawn abnormality?
Since I did it back when Naida was alive.... and whooooo... sheesh the killer rock-throw spam.
Well? :p
Quote from: UnholyWon;164387It isn't the DMs 'job' to supply the player.
We'd all have naked PC's if this were true.
If there is something that is needed, (or will make something
that much easier), it is the DM's job to make sure it is available to the players. Just because 90% of the "seasoned troupes" will have access to bull strength means that 10% wont. If a bull strength is needed to complete a quest then it's the DM's job to ensure one is to be had someplace in the scenario. <(
That's just an example! Dont go saying a bull strength isn't needed for the troll quest!)
I may not know how to work the computer side of DMing this game, but I know what it is to be a "DM".
Its called 'MERCHANTS' you buy supplies from them! The DMs supply the game with 'MERCHANTS'
This quest was fine as it was.the dispellers were glass cannons that a bow, darts or cantrip wand will crush. Easily countered but deadly if you don't make that effort. The other mobs are persistently dangerous but low crit power, meaning there are few WTF axecrit wipes. Now though, there are tough dispel spamming invised mages that you can't reasonably trash before you get dispelled. Since decent dispels can easily debuff even a L8 or 9 caster IMO they need to be balanced by being on weak mobs if they are common on a quest.
Quote from: RIPnogarD;164390We'd all have naked PC's if this were true.
Its called
'MERCHANTS' you buy supplies from them! The DMs supply the game with
'MERCHANTS' DMs provide opportunities for players. Its up to the player to take the opportunity and make the best of it.
Now if Joe Meatbag doesn't buy a melee weapon or a ranged weapon, healing supplies, potions, armor, rations, or various other ingredients from the provided DM vendor, then OMG we'd all naked.
But you know what, the DM provided the player with a merchant to buy neato things to survive the server. The DMs even provided players with trash piles to dig through for crap other players didn't want. Not to mention the donation chest, again, in the visitors tower.
From my point of view, the DMs have given the players more then enough vendors to use their adventuring gold to purchase the items needed to complete the majority of the server's quests.
Quote from: RIPnogarD;164390<(That's just an example! Dont go saying a bull strength isn't needed for the troll quest!)
Bull Strength isn't needed, its nice to have though. Especially if I take the time to seek out a NPC vendor the DM has provided or even a player vendor to purchase a bull strength potion.
This quest can be hard but it is fun as hell. Not every quest needs to be or should be carebear cakewalk. If anything ORCS should be made harder, since it is OMG sadly easy. I once more... agree with Caddies, BRING a bowman they are out there!
This quest, like orcs, scales very poorly past 4-5 people. I think it is a reasonable thing to look into. For now -- you've been warned.
I believe I was in the same group as the OP on this one. We stomped through the quest, the problem is not the difficulty per se, but rather the ridiculous amount of potions and supplies you burn through while attempting it. I don't think he was asking for trolls to be made weaker, but rather for the dispel spam to be somewhat LESS.
You drink a potion, get dispelled, waste more supplies, get dispelled. There are a LOT of those buggers around too. It is my understanding that quests are meant to be fun. This is not fun at all. I am all for a challenge, I welcome one and expect one whenever I do a quest. That isn't the issue here.
After you have burnt through many EXPENSIVE potions the rewards, in my opinion, are lackluster.
I felt that the final boss fight was a great challenge, and an interesting battle. Everything leading up to that was a chore. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tough, but if you think of the price for each potion used NOT INCLUDING HEALING you do not earn this much coin at the end.
I generally stay out of these discussions... but have to say something this time.
Why is it when ever someone says "make X eaiser / harder" you get the same answers, from basically the same players.
"All you need is X potions, or X Pc, and it's a cake walk."
I don't think ANY quest should require OOC knowledge to be successful. If I have to know before ever doing a quest that A,B and C are required what fun is it?
From my understanding the standard rule here is that your character has never done these things before, so they wouldn't know to grab Joe the archer, or stop and pick up X potions.
Now as for the matter of the OP. I can't really say anything,as the only time I had done it my ARCHER was left laying in the mud while the rest of the group finished the quest.
I'm just sick of hearing the same things over and over, "use this, bring that, have this..." Stop already. If you don't agree then just say so.
There I will go back to being silent now.
Bring some dwarves.
(http://www.pandora.ca/pictures45/391435.jpg)
Going to double check some stuff on it...
lol