During big events, DMs should be able to activate something that locks packs automatically when someone dies. This prevents looting. Perhaps anyone who respawns gets a key to their own pack.
Definately for this, looting in these events is just in bad taste.
Stamp of approval from me. Though it may not be scriptable... I dunno, we'll see.
I support this. There is no need of key, the command '/c collect_pack' lets only the owners collect their things.
This is a definite yes, if only to just prevent OOC douchebaggery.
Yes, It's pretty sad when you need to dryloot someone in order to prevent their nicer things from being stolen during events like these. I managed to save the stuff of one of my PC's friends(You know who you are and find my PC ASAP because your stuff is heavy >.>), but it is very discouraging that I felt the need to do that! >.>
I find Drylooting seems to happen more and more often these days. My previous PC was drylooted on three separate occasions, and those weren't even on a large Dm event, but simple questing/wilderness walking. I'd suggest that a pack be ALWAYS locked whenever someone dies, where only they can open it. (Yet it unlocks when they logout) This prevents drylooting in almost any scenario.
On the other hand, sneaky thief PCs should be able to do this.
Actually, I thought /c collect_pack does auto-unlock your pack.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;164772On the other hand, sneaky thief PCs should be able to do this.
No. No they should not. In the chaos around DM events, it is terrible form to do this, because there is literally no RP involved, so the person ends up taking an XP hit AND losing their gold/supplies. With pretty much no way to find out who did this usually, All it does is leave a sour aftertaste.
While if you do end up taking something, you should always emote it regardless. Even if You're stealthed, only people who have detected you will see the emote. But it is slightly less lame as you've a legitmate chance to get caught and have IC reprocussions.
But really though if you're going to steal from someone don't wait until a DM has killed them for you. Steal it by creating the opportunity yourself imo.
Who says anybody looted anybody if their "friends" are taking their stuff and having to post in threads for them to get the stuff back because it's heavy.
I agree that bags should be DM locked (to keep "friends" out)and if the player leaves game it should unlock the pack and bags that aren't locked should be lootable.
Quote from: Box;164775No. No they should not. In the chaos around DM events, it is terrible form to do this, because there is literally no RP involved, so the person ends up taking an XP hit AND losing their gold/supplies. With pretty much no way to find out who did this usually, All it does is leave a sour aftertaste.
While if you do end up taking something, you should always emote it regardless. Even if You're stealthed, only people who have detected you will see the emote. But it is slightly less lame as you've a legitmate chance to get caught and have IC reprocussions.
But really though if you're going to steal from someone don't wait until a DM has killed them for you. Steal it by creating the opportunity yourself imo.
Problem is, lameass players would abuse this. But i still think a PC who makes a living out of thievery and such should be able to.
Perhaps by adding a custom system using the pick pocket skil,
Not that I'm against the proposal, but looting dead people could (should?) just be made a social taboo via RP in-game. Also, in the case of DM events, DMs are present already. Beat the shit out of people who loot, before or after the madness. Then take all their shit, and pass it out to everyone who helped during the fighting. People loot because there are no consequences, so change that and suddenly the problem is solved.
Nonetheless, during lagfest DM events and because it's a game and we don't want this to be perfectly like RL for many reasons, I think that there are definitely times and places when this would be very reasonable, such as the huge battle today in the inner city ruins.
Quote from: Egon the Monkey;164773Actually, I thought /c collect_pack does auto-unlock your pack.
It doesn't auto unlock, it simply doesn't check to see if it is locked at all. So, no matter the locked state, it will always retrieve the items inside.
Quote from: Garem;164795Not that I'm against the proposal, but looting dead people could (should?) just be made a social taboo via RP in-game. Also, in the case of DM events, DMs are present already. Beat the shit out of people who loot, before or after the madness. Then take all their shit, and pass it out to everyone who helped during the fighting. People loot because there are no consequences, so change that and suddenly the problem is solved.
Nonetheless, during lagfest DM events and because it's a game and we don't want this to be perfectly like RL for many reasons, I think that there are definitely times and places when this would be very reasonable, such as the huge battle today in the inner city ruins.
Just because we're present doesn't mean we have the time to police looters. We're typically busy -running- the event in question, which depending on how many of us there are involved, can be frenetic enough as is.
I believe I will look into this possibility, though I make no promises as this would tie into the Death system and that is... well... complicated.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;164772On the other hand, sneaky thief PCs should be able to do this.
I'm playing a sneaky thief PC, and I'd never do this. The main reason is, as has been stated above, there's little to no risk to it. It's just inconsiderate as there's no way the DMs can oversee it during the chaos of an event like this. In my opinion it's just plain wrong.
One problem I see is that it would make it impossible for your allies to recover your stuff for you when they are carrying your lifeless body out of harm's way.
the dead person can type /c unlock_pack
This is not an IC issue. That means there is no IC solution.
I am undecided as to the feasibility of the suggestion.
We're doomed. Snoteye doesn't immediately know the answer to all our problems :(.
It's a good idea, but certainly not a pressing one, they tend to lock the bags pretty well on their own anyway.
Is this /really/ a problem? I can't imagine many people do this and if they do -- we will find them and delete their PCs.
You'd be surprised, Gip! As stated in my previous post, My last PC was drylooted three different times on different occasions. The PCs/players involved were also different each time. (But I am fairly certain the first time was a completely new player who did not understand the death system, and the stuff was returned without issue once an explanation was given) Adding to the fact that the PC only lived for about four days makes this kind of depressing.
I have only ever been part of two major server events where people died and no drylooting was done to my knowing. (Nightriser Invasion 4, Fort Senuspur Attack 2)
I'm not sure of the frequency of this, but I've been here since September, and this has happened to me two, possibly three times (one incident might have been a disarming AI, the other two were clearly looters).
I haven't been in many large-scale DM events, but I still remember the first time it happened, when I was pretty new, and I raged in private until a veteran player took matters into his own hands and spoke to a DM. The DM did locate my gear and grabbed the stuff from whoever took it, but it took a lot of his/her time and mine to sort it all out. I think if it hadn't been resolved fairly well and quickly, as a new player, I probably would have raged and either made a new PC or moved on to someplace easier, because I hadn't been hooked by EfU at that point.
While I find this last incident pretty annoying (my gold, buff pots, bow, ALL my scrolls and gems, and various other items not in bags), there are other things that make me rage more than this. I'm actually somewhat amused the thief didn't take the bag of healing wands and potions or my bag of once per day items.
Back to topic though, I think even adding an extra description to the loot message akin to "X_PC acquires Y_object from Z_PC's belongings" would lend some more IC consequences for this happening in large scale battles. Otherwise, you can't always tell if someone is looting from a dead NPC or a PC, if they're being selective in what they take. Just a thought.
Edit: The above change would also help DMs find who does this sort of stuff by sifting through the server logs... which may be more effort than you care to expend, but you'd at least know who the culprits are.
I'm for this as long as there's a way to undo it by the fugued player in question. If I'm sitting in the Fugue Plane waiting for someone to drag my dead ass to a priest, or just waiting for them to take my corpse to a safe place to respawn, I want them to have the option of rooting through my pack to grab some invisibility or healing or whatever they need.
Strangely I've been here since the beginning of efu classic and this has never happened to me once. Then again I almost never ever die to these type of events.
It pains me to think this happens.
Proposed solution:
When death is NOT a result of pvp the option to type /c lock_pack from the fugue is present. This remotely locks your pack. Not sure if its possible to script though.
It is extremely prevalent, every time somebody dies in a major event that I've been witness to. Every, single, time. It might even be worth it to stop dropping packs entirely, to just leave the body where it is and only use /c collect_pack and the variations /c yank_pack.
I rarely see looting in large scale events myself and that leads me to believe it's people either invisible or in stealth and that they're doing it blatantly on purpose.
However, on other pvp involved events and small scale things I think locked packs are silly so I'm against automatically locking things outside of the massive events. If group A and group b start fighting and it's rather even but one side is getting pushed back or something I hardly feel it's 'abuse or ooc conduct' to not try and salvage your allies materials / bodies while escaping or even snatch an enemies coin purse.
I think it really comes down to following IC alignments. If someone is being OOCly greedy and causing grief then it's a different issue. I've always sent tells to the DM channel when looting anything (and don't loot in large events ever, it's typically pvp) and will let them know of any DM loot on their bodies that others might loot off.
Quote from: Snoteye;164841This is not an IC issue. That means there is no IC solution.
I do not see nor understand why this is not an IC issue. I do agree that it is an OOC issue as well, however. Mostly. Our setting has a very strong survivalistic feel to it. 99.9% of characters will loot a "Mangled Corpse" out in the wilderness in a heartbeat amidst the company of total strangers without thinking twice about it.
There is, of course, an OOC courtesy aspect to it. People should not loot, especially dryloot, during large DM events for that reason alone. But to do so is hardly to act out of character for most PCs in the face of a great threat. I stand by my previous statements that an IC (and OOC) effort ought be made to handle this problem that has plagued us since day 1.
I very much like the /c lock_pack and /c unlock_pack suggestions to allow players to end their characters and let their belongings be pilfered or to keep them safe for res/respawn after the facts, or some other manner where the player can control this. Or a figurative switch the DMs can hit to make packs drop automatically would work just fine.
I agree with VP. If this was reserved for big events, it should be implemented.
Hmm... I've got a suggestion for this. If there were some kind of item storage possible, like a safety deposit box, with a small charge attached to deposited items by weight or somesuch to avoid excessive usage.
The whole death style in EFU reminds me of Diablo, where it was standard procedure to keep a spare set of gear, so that you could fight back to your corpse and get your primary stuff back. While it probably wouldn't be used for that here, a sort of stash would make a lot of sense, both for vendors with store inventory to think of, and for seasoned adventurers who know better than to take every object into every situation.
I would like to see this suggestion implemented.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;164772On the other hand, sneaky thief PCs should be able to do this.
You are incorrect. If the player logged back in and had some method of identifying who did this to them and could pursue revenge against them, it would be a different matter altogether. They do not.
Quote from: GippyGippy Is this /really/ a problem? I can't imagine many people do this and if they do -- we will find them and delete their PCs.
In my experience getting DMs during an off-time (which I now mostly play in) is near impossibility, and it only complicates matters if you aren't nearly 100% certain what character/player did this to you. And as others stated, yes, this actually happens.
Ix provides his approval for this suggestion.