On our lovely server, True Seeing has been toned way down for PCs. According to the notes, it now only sees invisible and prevents illusions. I don't know what the latter means, except I presume it makes one immune to PhK. Monsters still have normal true seeing that allows them to see you from a mile away.
The PC version is only fractionally better than true seeing, which is cast as a second circle spell, it makes it almost useless for its high level. I am totally fine with that.
However what I don't get is why the the polymorphed form of the Umber Hulk, a spell several ranks lower, retains monster style True Seeing - ie. sees stealth as well as inviso.
As far as I can tell from testing, my true seeing summons, which actually are monsters, don't even get monster style true seeing.
Might I suggest that for consistency it's all or nothing? Either mages can see stealth or they cannot?
I was under the impression that true seeing also gave a very significant bonus to spot and listen while also giving see invisible.
It doesn't.
Immunity to Illusions and see invis. That's it.
I also was in impression that it gave major bonuses to spot and listen. Not see through stealth.
Says right in mechanics changes.
QuoteTrue seeing: grants see invisibility and immunity to illusions; does not reveal stealthed opponents.
IMO true seeing needs a huge boost in Spot and Listen, but Umber Hulk should not be changed. Although it's powerful, unlike TS it *turns you into a 10 foot ape-beetle thing*. That's not suitable for a lot of detection scenarios. Also I was sure oozes got monster true seeing. DMs would know though.
Isn't this what potions of hearing and the like are for? I don't know that it's a good idea to hand mages an "I win" button over rogues who are stealthing.
True Seeing was removed from Umber Hulk form because it was deemed too powerful. Wizards should not be able to automatically detect any stealthing PC, for obvious balance reasons. You can always queue up some extended C+C if you want to make sure you're not being spied upon.
I don't think you guys read his post at all. According to him they already do have the *I win* button.
I think having it in polymorphed form is fine, and I think the summons lacking it might be an oversight.
I'm pretty sure Umbers have the PC version! At least I was led to believe they do. If they don't, they should TBH.
I think PC summoned Oozes have it...not sure though, will have to check. Which critters are you talking about, Scrap?
Quote from: Caddies;166606I'm pretty sure Umbers have the PC version! At least I was led to believe they do. If they don't, they should TBH.
I think PC summoned Oozes have it...not sure though, will have to check. Which critters are you talking about, Scrap?
Umberhulks don't have true seeing they do however have an ability called "tremor sense" which automatically detects
everything within range similiar to a radar. Even if they aren't looking at something they can "see" it whether or not they can identify it as a threat or not is another story. Oozes have the same ability and should retain it.
Oh on the topic of the polymorph spell. It gave npc style true seeing last I used it.
lol @ people who would have a meeting with a 10 foot monster that can't talk. I hope you speak chitter. NPCs have it so a polymorphed PC should also have it for reasons naga covered. it is only really suitable for combat situations and really is not that unbalancing imo.
This is bugged, then...
I will test again, but as far as I can tell my oozes cannot detect stealth.
However PCs in Umber Hulk form can certainly see straight through stealth. Tested conclusively in game only days ago. So will this do or shall I put it in the bug report section?
How does the potion form work? Just the ability to see invis and see through illusion or is it toned up because the potions are like super rare...?
Wizard Umberhulk form definitely did give Monster True Seeing- that is, I was able to spot people in Stealth Mode without even activating Detect Mode, 100% of the time.
I definitely felt that it was, in some respects, inferior to being able to cast a spell of true seeing, considering that umber hulk form cannot communicate outside of basic gestures, and is not any more of a win button in PvP than Missile Storm of Phantasmal Killer.
It's a high level spell, and limits the mage a lot: consider you can't comunicate efficeintly, you can't cast spells either, and unless you are pre-buffed, you are not THAT strong. And you can be dispelled.
Fine as it is IMO. Wizards should be powerfull, they do -magic- and it's far from OP.
Oozes see through stealth >_>
No summons or shapeshifts useable by a pc should have original Truesight, imo.
Oozes have seen through stealth for a long time.