With all the recent discussion about familiars, and nobody being sure of the exact comparisons, it's made me think that maybe we need a list of their abilities. I've been told it's FOIG, but there's a few problems with that.
- People who've played a lot of casters will know more about how to use familiars and their abilities, while other players will be in the dark as to what they do.
- Familiars are an important part of a caster's setup, and hiding their mechanical info is rather like changing how shields or something work and saying that aspect of the mechanics is now FOIG and "you should choose a shield type that is IC for the character".
- Mechanics and RP are not separate from each other. Knowing what the familiars do can help you pick one that makes sense. An adventurous mage might want a familiar who can open locks for him. A Necromancer may choose a familiar that is able to cast Seeing spells he cannot, or otherwise detect invisible of hidden threats for him (there are three that can detect things at least, and one's not obvious). Some familiar abilities aren't exactly obvious from their descriptions, and a list would make things clear.
If players know they are taking a familiar that is going to be useful to them, then we'll see familiars used more often and complement PCs well rather than for a lot of them, being something often forgotten about.
I agree entirely. While the stats on certain feats/abilities/classes should be kept secret (like what Bloodmages actually get), I feel that there should be more information on what our Familiars'/Animal Companions' stats and abilities are, such as spells gained, feats, and skills.
I actually think that as a part of something to try out and figure in game.
Thinking that leveling from 2-5 isn't too hard, you can change the familiar few times, and in the end, you're rather new arcanist who is still trying his powers and learning. Why not learn what kind familiar might best fit for your purposes as well? It's not like all is known right away.
I think the statistical information for familiars and animal companions should be better known. Some are over powered (IMO) and some are under powered (IMO), and there needs to be more balancing between them.
Familiars and Animal Companions on EfU were -very- weak, but they were given an upgrade with EfU:A to be more useful. I'm not sure if they've all been given a side-by-side comparison and properly tweaked to be in line with the server and each other, though.
A wizard has to perform a lengthy ritual to form a bond with a familiar. It is not something that just happens from one level to the next. So changing them every other level just to find out what they do is somewhat silly. It's your helper, your BFF (Unless you are some cruel wizard).
I do not really see a problem with revealing some of the abilities they have. Of course some people would chose the most powerful familiar just for mechanical benefits, but those kinds of people would figure out which familiar that is by creating multiple low level wizards and summoning the familiar in the starting area.
I'm way ahead of those people. I did that out of curiosity when ithe new familiars was introduced along with about 1/4 of the server at that time XD. That only shows you the spells and feats for L1 anyway. My point is that the knowledge gap between people who've played multiple mid/high level mages and those who hasn't is a Bad Thing as it leads to veteran players knowing the mechanics while newer folk are left in the dark.
Players can be trusted to not relentlessly powergame everything just because they know the mechanics. The server isn't entirely populated by Bastard Sword wielding fighter/bards, True Neutral Sun Elf Illusionists, and 6 CHA 20 STR Half Orc Scythe Fighters. There's no one uber familiar anyway. Yes the rat has stupid HP, but I've never seen it used to tank.
This has my support.
I would rather just pick a familiar that suits my character based on what it is, rather than what it does. If it turns out to be more useful than something else I might pick, then so be it.
This would be like picking your friends based on what they can do for you, rather than who they are. Suitable for some PC's perhaps but not for many.
Quote from: Underbard;167585I would rather just pick a familiar that suits my character based on what it is, rather than what it does. If it turns out to be more useful than something else I might pick, then so be it.
This would be like picking your friends based on what they can do for you, rather than who they are. Suitable for some PC's perhaps but not for many.
choose the rat for mechanical power overload
Also if you desperately wanted to know what each familiar did you could just create multiple wizards and summon them in the starting area. (Two per wizard since you level up once in the starting area)
Quote from: TheImpossibleDream;167597Also if you desperately wanted to know what each familiar did you could just create multiple wizards and summon them in the starting area. (Two per wizard since you level up once in the starting area)
This actually points out how many of the abilities can be found out OOC anyway, so we might as well make the information available.
If the DMs want to keep certain high-lvl abilities FOIG, they still can.
Yes, some PCs will naturally suit familiars because of what they are, but others will want them for what they can do *with good IC reasons*. Remember they're supposed to be assistants and even magical experiment subjects. It makes just as much sense for a wizard to pick a familiar he can train to do a task or cast a spell that is useful as it does for certain concepts to pick one because of their background.
Quote from: Underbard;167585I would rather just pick a familiar weapon/armor type/domain that suits my character based on what it is, rather than what it does..
There's a reason the server has a "mechanics changes" page, and a cleric domains page. The new cleric domain spells and powers aren't hidden under the reasoning "Choose one that suits the aspect of the god your PC most reveres", for example. Keeping people ignorant of the mechanics just lets players who do find the answers out have an advantage as they'll know for their next PC.
If you choose the wrong cleric domain, you can't cast spells, so naturally, this needs to be posted.
As far as familiars go, an 18 year old kid dabbling in magic shouldn't necessarily know what his rat, chicken etc... will be able to do by the time he turns 30.
Threads like this make me hate pre-4th Ed. D&D.
I understand that there are ways to defend the practice of mechanical obfuscation. But that is, in my opinion, a side-effect of bad game design.
Quote from: Underbard;167800If you choose the wrong cleric domain, you can't cast spells..
I don't mean the "What domains are legal for what god" list, I mean the "What spells a domain gives you" list. For example,I have a Priest of Baravar who likes illusions. He could take Gnome, Illusion or Trickery Domains. But which one will give him the Color Spray he wants to use to show the power of distraction in battle?
Quote"18 year old kid dabbling in magic shouldn't necessarily know what his rat, chicken etc... will be able to do by the time he turns 30."
Saying that for other mechanical factors, you would invalidate making *any* character choices based on future options, for example building a Fighter towards learning Whirlwind Attack. Or taking feats for a Prestige Class you have apped for before you ICly know that the class requires them. "I'm a Smiter of the Undead with my WF:Warammer! What's that Kelemvor, you want me to use a Bastard Sword or I can't get promoted to Champion? B'awww.... :(". Also, ICly, you'd expect the guy with the magic to be influencing the familiar's development by enhancing and experimenting with it.
Familiars can be mechanically and concept-wise an important part of a mage build. I've played at least one mage where the familiar's been as well-known as the character, and even had its own personal rivalry with a PC. I've had a trap-master wizard who would work alongside his Raven to clear an area. For both of these, the abilities of the familiars were what made them interesting and frequently used, rather than an occasional accessory.
Allowing people who don't play many wizards or sorcs to know familiar abilities through a proper list, not word of mouth or observation of other players would help them choose complementary familiars for their PC.
Sometimes I feel the "FOIG card" is played a bit much around here. I think there is a huge difference between what I know and what my PC would know. (Don't ya hate it when your PC is smarter than you.) Anyway, although spell casters may not technically get to pick the familiar/animal companion that shows up it doesn't mean they don't know what each could do. They may want a pseudo dragon and get a rat but they would know what both could do.
i.e.; I may be a dog person (//%22http://www.all-creatures.org/poetry/rags.html%22) but I own a cat. Doesn't mean I don't love the cat but I do know more about dogs.
Knowing what your familiar can do can help you buld up the characters personality. If you want to make an insane wizard that randomly destroys things, you should know what familiar can do that, if the wizard is some sort of spymaster, maybe he wants a familiar that can hide and spy, or one that helps him stealth etc.