The simple change of increasing barkskin cost and increasing Purple Crystal Cave difficulty have made things harder in a good way.
The main trouble with any quest or change is that optimal groups (frontline plus buffers) make easy what may be hard to any other group. They're not the ones who will feel these changes as much with their expertise/stat buffs/ improved inviz.
Therefore I suggest an easy type quest, like Purple Cave used to be, which constantly prevents casting and strips buffs. Perhaps it could even temporarily lower stats to a certain maximum or prevent certain classes from entering as well.
I believe everyone benefits if weaker teams can reap a reward that a buffer/frontline team cannot reap any more efficiently than they can.
There comes a point where all quests other than the very low ones require buffage, potions and healing. There should be one quest that people can walk into with no supplies, and without a buffer, and get some sort of reward that supplies them in some minor way.
I don't like the idea of a quest that excludes anyone for choosing a specific class.
Magic Eater quest on the surface, IMO.
I think we have support for this.
This would be pretty awesome, but there's no reason to prevent certain classes from entering the QA, they can always aid in ways other than buffs. Also, lowering certain stats that are natural, not magically enhanced? That doesn't make sense, either.
I seem to recall a quest in the UD that constantly spammed Dispel.
People -hated- it.
Wow this sounds like a certain quest on another quest that I absolutely despise because npc's are uneffected by it no matter how you script it.
First of all the Trolls in the UD spammed dispel allot. The reason people hated it was the trolls would eat your face alive if you couldn't keep some type of buffs up. Even still, people spammed the crap out of the quest.
If you make one where nearly all magic buff wise is useless, it would not make magic casters useless, they'd just need to go with summons or offensive magics. which is fine actually >_> the only catch is that the monsters in the quest better not be eating your face if you arent fullbuffed like half the other Qs out there.
Still, awesome suggestion. ^^
There is a quest identical to the troll quest, actually harder with dispel magic in the same way as the underdark troll quest. Dispel magic on either quest has never been an issue if you had an archer with you, a bow on you, or the balls to chase them down and crush them.
He means dead magic though as in ~no potions of cure serious wounds work~ etc
Not to highjack the thread, but on the same line as the OP... If you want to stop the front-line buff party simply lower the frequency of potion drops. IMO it's quite rediculous anyway that...
A) a person is carrying 99 bottles of anything.
B) Having 99 bottles of differing potions and being able to pull out the one you need while somebody is swinging a weapon at you isn't silly, in any form of reality it's impossible.
C) It causes poor RP in that players run through quests like tornado's on crack trying to get done before their buffs burn out.
D) Last but not least it makes potions much more special. The fact that people say lets spar and chug a half dozen potions means they are WAY to common! (low magic server my ass.)
But what do I know... :???:
A replacement for the original purple crystal quest which will be balanced by preventing buffers from making the massive difference they do in all other quests - that's what I'm suggesting.
It would be moderately hard to unbuffed pcs and yield some healing supplies. A broke pc could go in to try to find supplies and be on the same footing as someone with 53 pages of potions and a mage.
Just speaking for myself and a few others I've noticed that we are finding it hard to get ourselves healing due to most of the quests requiring a buffer to come out ahead on.
Purple crystal mine used to be intended as the solution to this, but became far too easy and cheap to do if the team had a spellcaster.
Add a few special enemies that become buffed as the party does, i don't think you need more than that.
RIPnogarD is right though, if we want people to stop buffing up and clear quests like tornados on crack, lower the magic level of the server. OR restrict spellcasting items to MAGES. Otherwise, even if you have a quest that has a dispeller on each encounter, somone will still spam blur potions or just ask the mage for flame weapon, greater magic weapon and keen edge.
Cool suggestion. I think we should have all kinds of different quests that promote different kinds of tactics.
But I'm not sure why people think that in -general principle- there's something wrong with a party of different kinds of classes cooperating (i.e. buffing each other) being more effective than a bunch of fighters just mobbing things with no real cooperation?
As for supplies, guess what - I find NWN a lot more fun to play with the moderate inclusion of supplies, so I don't think that's something we need to rush to change. I agree it doesn't make sense realistically to have all these potions and such, but that doesn't bother me personally. NWN's engine isn't ideal but without some toys to play around with it tends to be too simplistic and boring.
Having the availability of potions and such makes for better stories, emphasizes some measure of skill over just whoever has the strongest build, allows for more interesting fights and makes long epic dm quests/scripted quests possible. I could go on...
Magic gives players options. Take it away, and the options become much simpler- point and click, live or die.
This is a neat idea, mind you, so long as the quest is worth the time to bother or only optimized fighters, barbs, rangers, or other people who do not necessarily rely on magic will enjoy it.
That being said, wizards already have the Observatory. A fighter-heavy quest could be a nice balance.
Personally I think the chug a bunch of potions and do the tornado on crack thing is more of a point and click mentality.
Give me an organized fireteam any day of the week and I can get through most of the quests (that I've had the pleasure of doing) without a single potion save for maybe some healing. Of course to do a proper fire and manuver you'd need people that actually take their time and work as a team instead of an individul that said I just need you along to activate the quest, I'll do the rest.
Again, RIP is right. I have completed quests that would normally rape us, kill us and rape us again without buffs, and done it succesfully only by mere tactics, this usually include ranged weapons btw.
I think the "potions are the only thing that add variety" mentality is harmfull, because at least when it comes to PvM that is not true, several quite brilliant tactics can come out of a well prepared party.
Quote from: FleetingHeart;169373I seem to recall a quest in the UD that constantly spammed Dispel.
People -hated- it.
Dispel spamming is different from dead magic.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;169405Again, RIP is right. I have completed quests that would normally rape us, kill us and rape us again without buffs, and done it succesfully only by mere tactics, this usually include ranged weapons btw.
I think the "potions are the only thing that add variety" mentality is harmfull, because at least when it comes to PvM that is not true, several quite brilliant tactics can come out of a well prepared party.
The majority of the server seems to disagree and enjoys the game the way it is.
Get to and complete "Sinister Enclave" quest (efu:a) or Drow Caravan (Efu) without using any potions(save maybe healing) and rely on your "tactics" and then I will agree with you.
More likely you'll die and realize in the truly challenging quests require both careful tactics and potion use to win out. Not just spamming your potions mindlessly either as you are like to run out before the end and die horribly.
But yeah this is off topic.
Dead magic quests, bad idea.
I like to spam my potions mindlessly. I agree something that the OP suggests would be a good thing to supply people up. Maybe an easy quest with some sort of rare penalty on it, like a bestow curse or something that only those really aching for supplies would gain a true benefit from the quest.
Using the right potion at the right time is a tactical decision; its not like you can down a stack of potions in one round!
Quote from: Snoteye;169407Dispel spamming is different from dead magic.
It results in the same thing though. It makes buffing useless.
Only dead magic makes it one step worse, it makes all casters useless. Get out yer slings, boys!
Nut is right. Casters are useless enough in several scenarios unles they just buff. Spam dispell is better.
I don't mean to insult, and while I agree that EFU:A favors full BAB classes, I don't really think you are really taking a lot of caster capabilities in addition to and besides buffing.
Quote from: FleetingHeart;169468It results in the same thing though. It makes buffing useless.
Only dead magic makes it one step worse, it makes all casters useless. Get out yer slings, boys!
The psychological effect is much worse with constant dispelling. Also, those quests are not balanced for no-buffs, which a dead magic quest would have to be.
Dead magic zones also don't allow healing potions etc. I've been in that situation once, and while it was one of the coolest moments I've seen on efu, I doubt it could actually be balanced well. I'd also agree with whoever said so that dead magic made it even more a "click and kill", since that's basically the only thing that could be done.
I wasnt trying to say that needing buffs is wrong. Just simply that it would be nice to have one quest where they weren't needed (applicable) so that broke pcs or pcs that couldn't find a buffer have a quest they can try.
This quest would be equally hard to a group with supplies and buffer to a group with nothing.
This is not an anti-potion petition, just a suggestion that one quest where they are useless rather than required would add variety and would be an option for broke pcs.
People who didn't feel comfortable with dead magic could simply elect to not do the quest. It's a quest for the poor man and the payout would be appropriately modest.
I think we should do a quest where you just gotta go for alot of shooting. Archers and fireballs ftw.
*coughs* Healing herbs *coughs*
I have an even better idea than either dead magic OR dispel spam. :twisted:
[Smells Wild Magic Surge incoming]