I tried to do a little old fashion mugging today with intimidation rolls and rp and such in a way that pvp conflict could or could not arise and the person would mearly have been subdued and had some of their gold removed....but no what happened was as soon as I started the rp the two men both sprinted into my armed associate and ran away as soon as the rp started to happen. Before I could even hostile the individual I started to talk to seconds before. I understand not wanting to get mugged and all that, but simply running straight into a guy with a greataxe and taking advantage if the fact that he has to hostile you first before he can attack you is ridiculous...especially when we were trying to rp the situation without attacking you first! I honestly feel cheated out of the whole experience. Am I the only one who feels that sprinting straight into an armed individual without any rolls involved or even the slightest interest in rping any of the situation is in a sense metagaming as you know damn well that a player who has not yet had the chance to hostile you is not going to hit you? Then one of them implied in tells that I was trying to gank him and gave me advice for next time :mad: if I was ganking anyone I would not have said anything about you giving me your gold and walking away safely I would have just swung at you without saying anything but die! Oh well.../rant off. I had a chat with the first individual and was told that he was scared of FD gankers and this is understandable. Is this really a huge issue? Do people really randomly gank and FD people? Should I be sending people messages telling them that I am going to mug them before the fact and that I will not be killing them so that they will engage in mugging rp with me? Please Kotenku, Derf, Semli and 9 Lives I require your expert opinions on the matter with haste!
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'sprinting into an armed individual'...did you mean they ran past him, to escape you?
Whatever the case may be; the onus to hostile is on you. If you quickslot the hostile macro command (which all PCs should, really!) then you can switch hostile in a matter seconds.
Couple of thoughts...
When people see half-orcs mugging them, YES, they get worried because many players know that a lot of new-ish players trying evil out do two things. They 1) attack ANYONE and 2) immediately go to Full Damage because "evil people kill people".
Second, it would be greatly to your advantage as a mugger to use "/c hostile all" prior to approaching someone you're mugging. Also, it makes it more fair to anyone who happens to walk past the scene as its occurring to fight back with the victim. So, if you plan on mugging, use this feature!
/c hostile all is the key to all good muggers.
People are certainly entitled to run away in sketchy situations, so no problem there, but I do want to address the idea of "random FD ganks" - people should not really be scared of these, as we do not permit them.
Assassinations are one thing (usually you are aware if you have done things to justify such a thing), but thankfully we do not have problems with random muggers FD'ing people and if we did we would crack down on it.
Also, "rolls" are not really suitable in such situations unless a DM is present or the other player requests an intimidate roll or something (and players are never obliged to respond in any particular way to a roll).
But, it's nothing to get upset about, if you want to play a mugger (which is fine!) you're going to have all kinds of experiences.
Quote from: Howland;171078But, it's nothing to get upset about, if you want to play a mugger (which is fine!) you're going to have all kinds of experiences.
QFT
It makes perfect IC sense for them to leg it. If someone stops you in the inner city ruins with armed accomplices you know it's clearly a beating or such. Even if they were hostiled it still makes sense that they may just want to blast past you and catch you by surprise therefore escaping.
I once had a simmilar experience. We was about to subdue this halfling back in the UD. The guy first got hit by a blindness spell and then he just ran all the way out of the mines, arround corners and obstacles and shit. That was rather funny,
Anyway the guy later told me in pm´s that he was affraide we would fd him becourse we was so bad ass, clearly your case was something similar.
Quote from: Caddies;171074I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'sprinting into an armed individual'...did you mean they ran past him, to escape you?
I mean he ran -into- my armed accomplice like we were both standing there cornering him and he ran head-on into him.
I understand you were upset when you posted this originally but I'm not sure you get to complain if you're the one initiating a mugging and you get busted up... Dems da breaks... Bring tougher folks next time so it's not even an option.
99% of folks really don't want to get mugged, regardless of the RP opportunities. They're going to react in any way that makes them most likely to not have to give up their hard earned gold.
That sucks OP, but pretty much everyone is going to wander into PvP that doesn't go perfectly OOCly/ICly someday. I would just try to learn from the mistakes and mishaps and move on.
TeufenHunden, putting this sort of thing up in the general discussion thread is frowned upon. Specific instances should be dealt with by speaking to the DM's.
However, I think you need to talk to the DMing team -anyway- to figure out how best to pursue your current character, as I suspect you have some definite misconceptions to put to bed before you embark on any PvPing journey.
In fairness nuke the last thread "Pvping attitudes" was almost an identical type of thread.
I don't think pvp should be discussed by players in general discussion and rather if an issue arises with pvp leave it to the DM's to deal with, discuss and address.
Too many topics seem to stem from pvp not going the way somebody likes.
--- On topic ---
I could point out multiple flaws with the approach taken in the OP. Most obviously not setting hostile and thus not being able to hit this person with an aoo. Also if he was truly cornered it would take a could five minutes for him to "glitch" his path finding past both of you and you'd most certainly see it. If the engine allowed him to move, well, you hadn't blocked him well enough. There are many ways to halt people, subdual, hold person, hold monster, tanglefoot bags, grease and web.
In addition rolls are never a good idea in pvp. As hard as it can be you just have to trust that people roleplay their stats and skill points accordingly.
Tips for Mugging:
1: Keep RP simple, quick and to the point, never spend more than 1 minute trying to get them to surrender.
2: Don't loot them dry, take 100-200 gold at best (to do this, if you didn't know, emote something like *chuckles, kneeling down over the subdued man and takes about 100 gold from his coin pouch*, then take all their gold, and then put back the extra), maybe a bit more if you had to use potions to take them down, don't steal so much that you become a capital criminal and they suddenly can't go on any quests because they're so under equipped.
Really TBH Either buff and gank from Invis or start an unrelated conversation and then demand gold.
I was that player that escaped. Now, after reading this i thought, "maybe i exagerated, FD ganks can't happen that oftern".
And then today certian player FD ganked another player.
That said, i regret not having RPed acordingly now, and probably if it ever happens again, i will. But this is an issue, if i would have been FDed i would have felt grifed, and am not sure the DMs would agree and let me repsawn.
Nothing wrong with running away when people with drawn weapons approach you in a deserted area
QuotePlease Kotenku, Derf, Semli and 9 Lives I require your expert opinions on the matter with haste!
Usually I don't do requests, but I understand your plight and am having trouble turning away from a brother in need.
First, lets talk about what you did right:
Half-orcs, good.
You used the buddy system, good.
Greataxe, fan-fucking-tastic. Most math nerds go straight for the greatsword thinking they'll get more damage over time, but you have embraced the wisdom of massive crits, whereas one good hit will end a PvP before that newb has a chance to suck down all your pots he just happens to be holding.
Now, lets get to where you need improvement.
First, hostile-all! When you are out in the inner ruins or nobles gate, hoping to mug some of these newbs, you should already be hostile to the entire server. No talking has to take place pre-gank, because if you are busy typing they will do some dumb shitty emote while running or drink an invis potion. DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE!
Unfortunately, this tactic alone isn't enough to ensure success. Given the fact that your target will likely run away from the gank as a knee jerk reaction, you will require a method of holding them still while caving their face in. Utilize Knockdown, Tanglefoot bags, or most any item that can provoke a will save against your enemy prior to their flight to ensure the appropriate reacquisitioning of their wealth.
Due to disparaging builds, levels, and loot, these tactics alone are not always enough. Occasionally, you will encounter an opponent that is more powerful than you in a straight up fight. This is where potions come in. After disabling your opponent you surmise them to be a threat, you will need to utilize potions that modify your attack rolls and damage in order to defeat them swiftly. The preferred order of consumption is those that last the longest followed by those that last the shortest, with the most powerful effect coming last. Strength, Divine Favor, and Haste are all good choices.
With your opponent subdued and no apparent allies in the vicinity, now comes the chance to gloat! This is where your RP experience comes in. Appropriate follow up remarks are things like, "This is a mugging," "Hahah," and "*pisses on your faec*." Do not get too caught up in this regard however, as you should also be using this time to acquire their gold and potions. Remember that it is good form to leave your victim with as much of their original wealth intact as possible, and always to be polite OOCly. Also, do not linger too long as the fear of their pre-buffed allies they alerted OOCly arriving is ever-present. You don't have dispel items and any of those level 8-10 dudes with DM loot showing up with buffs running will be bad news.
I've left out a few of the finer details, but this is all stuff you should be able to pick up on your own down the road. Have fun and remember, try to keep it fun for everybody else! Welcome to EFUA!
i feel bad for being grouped with kotenku and 9 lives = (
semli is spot on. you should use a greataxe if you want to win every time. when i choose greataxe i do not lose save extreme circumstances, and people seem to perceive me as competent as far as mechanics goes. BBRP
beware that if you encounter another person with a greataxe your chances will diminish significantly
in all seriousness have a /c hostile area macro on your shift quick-bar or something. if you hostile pre-emptively you are essentially giving an OOC warning that you are a man with a plan and you can and will stomp people
leave people stuff too because it sucks to have absolutely nothing. unless you hate the dude do whatever
With my previous PC I was the target of two attempted muggings. I chose to RP the situations both times, but that was my choice, as the target. I could have very easily hostiled, chugged and run/attacked.
My take is that if you attack you can't "demand" interaction from your target and if you get turned over expect little mercy. I showed some to my attackers, but if i hadn't chosen to for IG reason then thats also the way it goes.
Regarding other PC's "pushing" past yours when graphically they look like they are "trapped". Without a DM this is entirely unenforable. With a DM maybe rolls and such can be required.
Without a DM if they get past you (even if your two massive half-orcs seem to be completely blocking a door or exit) thats just the way it goes.
Mugging is a hostile action. You should have hostiled the players you were mugging anyway.
If they choose to run away, and you are saying it didn't give you time to hostile them. They are perfectly within their right to do such, and unfortunately you are in the wrong.
Not to be a pedant but just to set the record straight regarding -
QuoteAnd then today certian player FD ganked another player.
In the incident in question the player who FD'ed inappropriately has been banned and the player who was victimized was TR'ed by a DM shortly after.
The bottom line is that inappropriate FD PvP is very rare on our server and when it happens the DM team stands ready to make things right.
That said of course if you are attacked or think you are about to be it is perfectly fine just to run away, and I do not want to imply in the slightest that you are under some kind of RP obligation to stay.
Forgive me for ignorance of proper gamer slang, but what does "FD gank" mean? I know "gank" generally means stealing, usually lives, usually with overwhelming forces against a poorly prepared defense, but what does "FD" stand for? "Full Death" maybe?
FD stands for Full Damage. In this server you can use three types of damage: subdual (the default one) that once you damage a PC and his HP reaches 1 he is knocked to the floor and can't move, but doesn't die, sparring, that it's the same except that the damaged PC can inmediatly stand up with no penalties, and Full Damage, with wich you can kill the PC.
A full damage gank is killing a player by attacking without warning while he is traveling an area that has no NPCs.
A regular gank would be doing the same, but instead of killing the PC, just using subdual damage so it remains in the floor helpless, you can steal his loot, gold or whatever, and force him to stick to the floor, without killing him. This is the kind of gank that is most appropiate IMO.
I have played a mugger recently, and I've experienced several situations. Some of them were similar to the one posted here, and some others much fun for both sides. People would simply run or walk past before I had time for the rp and all. It is just something you have to get used when playing a mugger. Sometimes people OOCly don't want that, and, in my opinion, as lame as it is, we have to respect that. What might pass through their minds is that the mugger is probably a fully buffed overpower bastard. Well, not really. My char was a level 4 barbarian, barely supplied, and chances were, I would actually lose if combat conflict came to happen. Just one thing one has to keep in mind, muggers will likely leave a way out if combat if this is not desired by the victim, usually gold payment, or maybe an opening to convince him (Persuade, Bluff, counter intimidation, offering other deals, you name it). So, muggers, get used to some people oocly trying to run away without giving you the chance, and victims, just play their game, it's (or it should) be meant to be fun for you too!
I have a simple (maybe silly) question...
How come I never heard of any merchants being targeted by muggers and highway robbers. I would think well known merchants should be sought out by so-called muggers.
A) You're taking a chance the random PC you're mugging has nothing to steal. Taking 200 gold from a PC that only has 300 is a cripling blow.
B) Known merchants have both lots of coin and lots of valuable items.
C) If merchants were actually prime targets it would add to what they should already be doing as in getting guard retainers and banking their coin.
I understand common nobody thieves that are flying solo trying to hit anybody that looks vulnerable. But I would think those that organize and are in groups of two or more would go after more prime targets.
Of course this may be happening and I just never hear about it, but it would be fun to hear and see merchants that advertise "Hey! I have valuables and gold!" getting targeted and leaving the Joe Nobodies alone.
uh merchants are targeted when it's convenient. generally they keep their money in the bank. generally they stick to safer spots whereas travelers do not. any mugger worth their salt takes into consideration how much someone has before they decide how much they take.
[shrugs] I guess that's why I'd make a bad mugger. To me, were I a mugger with partners in crime, every time I heard a sending saying "I'll be here, selling whatever" would be my open invitation to gatehr the forces with time to spare and be waiting and watching for the merchant to do all the work of collecting all my gold that my little guild would be collecting as soon as he was done selling it. And based on what he was selling probably even relieve him of a few of the blur potions or whatever while I was at it. [shrugs] But what do I know... :twisted: ;)
Merchants that advertise in this way in a town full of rogues are as silly to me as the person that made a sending saying they wanted to start a thieves guild and anybody interested in robbing, stealing and killing should find them on top of the Zig. That was quite funny actually seeing all the Guards march up there to arrest the guy.
well mug the merchants that advertise if it's so silly of them. just remember it's not cool to dry loot and you should leave them gold if you can, though understandably some circumstances don't let you extend that courtesy right then and there
My point being that you know the merchant has gold to spare and taking a portion of it isn't going to cripple him. random ganking of PC's that you have no clue who they are only puts you into a "pft, I did all that and he only has 234 gold and basic crap items". I feel higher level muggers should do more research or go after those they know might have something of value.
Don't get me wrong, new muggers just starting out (low level rogues etc.) may feel the easier the target the better but those more advanced and those that have numbers in their favor should go after bigger and better, well known PC's. To me this would cut down on the players thinking they were ganked or grievd and in a no win situation. It's kind of anoying to have a 3rd or 4th level PC get mugged by a 6th or hiher level PC. If my philosophy were followed more often than not their would be fewer hard feelings on the entire PvP mugging situation. At least in my oppinion anyway.
oh
I am somehow sure it's a fact more kids get robbed for their breakfast money than established salesmen ever will.
Quote from: EfUA_undercover;172484I am somehow sure it's a fact more kids get robbed for their breakfast money than established salesmen ever will.
I'm sure that's because salesmen have 'guards' and enough security measures to stop criminals thinking they're fair game. I believe that we are discussing unprotected merchants who are advertising in ill-advised areas.
I am somehow sure it's a fact kids that get robbed for their breakfast money are being robbed by other kids not adults who would think their lunchmoney unworthy of the effort.
Quote from: Thaedrin;172491I'm sure that's because salesmen have 'guards' and enough security measures to stop criminals thinking they're fair game. I believe that we are discussing unprotected merchants who are advertising in ill-advised areas.
Merchants typically in RL/in fantasy are re-sellers with business sense rather the hardened adventurers selling excess loot with enough ridiculous strength to carry the entirety of their wares on their person. In game they are in essence quite well-guarded (assuming EfU follows the trend for this type of merchant like other servers). Just saying.
This has ran its course.