When you do this quest and a lot of the weaker mephits spawn, they all use Magic Missile. On the two occasions I've done this quest, I have had an enormous amount of HP, but when a Magic Missile (3) from 12 sources hits you for 72 damage average without a save, you can't help but wonder if it needs tweaking. And yes, I'm hearing you think that a simple spell like Shield or Ghostly Visage is a quick and easy counter, but on both occasions I, nor others, had access to these spells, and I can not help but feel that if you need a certain spell to guarantee survival that something is wrong.
So I offer these suggestions:
1) Balance the spawning system; spawn less but tougher monsters.
2) Fix the caster level on Magic Missile to 1 or 2.
3) Make Imps target at random with Magic Missile so not one char has to beat the brunt of it all. The damage adds up ridicilously for a level 6 quest.
I'd have to agree with this.
Well you can guarantee survival with a spell. Or take a chance and use careful planning to evade such barrages. At no point are you -forced- to be in line of sight of more than two of those monsters at any given time.
Most people seem to always metagame this anyways
This is a case of metagame or die.
I beg to differ, ebok! This is a case of run in, and either have blur or just break line of sight before they finish casting, IMO. I have made it a point with my last couple PCs to just completely show up metagamers by walking over traps they somehow avoid, charging into rooms where they for some reason stop and decide they randomly need to rebuff, etc. All my PCs who have done this have ended up wealthier than most of the people they quest with, so IMO if people want to metagame you only hurt yourself and miss out on rewards TBH.
Metagame and drink your blur, or enjoy your death. If you don't got access to shield/blur, don't do the quest unless you can be certain someone else will be up front.
You can break LoS. In my opinion its an unreliable survival technique but I guess it beats certain death if you end up doing this one. The potion/scroll drops tend to be pretty damned good if you can make it to the end.
You can also bring some one to do nothing but healing. Give them all your healing trinkets besides potions and have them stand back and keep you and the rest of the party healed. Spam the healing when needed and take the magic missles with a stiff chin.
I've done this quest numerous times with a party with no shield or ghostly visage, and with no party deaths either. The quest is fine as it is.
In certain areas (theres really two problem areas that come to mind) you enter rooms where 6-9 foes are going to appear that use magic missile simultaneously. The high amount of damage that offers no saving throw or chance to avoid is often enough to kill just about any PC taking this low-mid level range QA outright. There isn't enough time in between said attacks to heal.
I dunno. You can avoid damage soooo very easily as was mentioned (blur/shield/summons to take the hits).
You're not metagaming if you've already seen imps cast the spell (which they do very early in the quest). Most quests are designed so that the PCs get a glimpse of the critter's capacities before hitting them hard with them.
It's one of those battle knots in a quest where, yes, you have to use a minimum of tactic to survive, and that makes up the challenge.
Going inside a room filled with magic using critters is never a good idea anyways. Scouts, lored wizards, have a use.
I guess some people are probably pretty delusional to this. Sometimes it lags or whatever, but when it doesn't, one person is going to get pummeled unless they feel like randomly turning into a paranoid weirdo every corner they run into. Or more specifically, this one.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;173514I dunno. You can avoid damage soooo very easily as was mentioned (blur/shield/summons to take the hits).
You're not metagaming if you've already seen imps cast the spell (which they do very early in the quest). Most quests are designed so that the PCs get a glimpse of the critter's capacities before hitting them hard with them.
It's one of those battle knots in a quest where, yes, you have to use a minimum of tactic to survive, and that makes up the challenge.
Going inside a room filled with magic using critters is never a good idea anyways. Scouts, lored wizards, have a use.
This sounds about right to me. You get zapped by 3 imps in one room, why just waltz into a room filled with them later on?
This is pretty much the only serious challenge in this quest though, aside from the boss who can be quite nasty.
That being said, I've always thought the loot on this quest was sub-par given it requires at least a few blur pots or shield spells, neither of which are frequently done cheaply or without risking having a wizard tank these little critters (which attack through the DR of blur and have a very high AB).
Just don't do it without the supplies, summons as decoys, or a mage willing to use blur or shield to tank the missiles. I actually think this quest is well balanced since the ruined stuff turned up so it's not so easy to get +1 vs Evil chains.
There's enough counters that it's fine.
QuoteI have made it a point with my last couple PCs to just completely show up metagamers by walking over traps they somehow avoid, charging into rooms where they for some reason stop and decide they randomly need to rebuff, etc. All my PCs who have done this have ended up wealthier than most of the people they quest with, so IMO if people want to metagame you only hurt yourself and miss out on rewards TBH.
You thought this thread was about magic missiles, but it is actually about how great Cruzel is. Toot toot!
I do agree this quest seems one of the most linear in that every time I do it, I've found I need magic weapon + blur / blur or the quest will take way more than it gives.
Especially considering the tank has to burn through pots and most of the loot from it seems focused towards Wizards!
Quote from: UnholyWon;173509You can also bring some one to do nothing but healing. Give them all your healing trinkets besides potions and have them stand back and keep you and the rest of the party healed. Spam the healing when needed and take the magic missles with a stiff chin.
I've done this quest numerous times with a party with no shield or ghostly visage, and with no party deaths either. The quest is fine as it is.
This is what wizards are for.
*goes off to look for a screeny of one of his wizards tanking the Missiles using extended shield, axecritting Imps in a blur of hasted death or ScintSphereSploding one of the rooms*
That's what BORING wizards are for Porkolt (not garem, I confused the portrait) ;). I agree though that this quest is meta or die in that there's no clue from outside you need MW. I think an infernal glyph on the wall, or a dead imp the gypsies killed would be a good idea.
I'm not Garem, you noob.
Also, Ahmed did it all the time.
Ahmed used to tank the missiles and take the piss out of the imps too. But he was my least imaginative wizard combat-wise, yes. At least until he got his Fiery Death Stick.
in this topic we spam about how big our char's dick is as opposed to focusing on the suggestion at hand. wow you guys are masterminds im such a troll
Quote from: derflaro;173892im such a troll
But seriously, the quest is much like any other on the server - with the right party or preparations, it's a cakewalk. For others, it can be deadly. Perhaps a DM with some time can take a look at it and give it a tweak or two (I love seeing quests change over time, personally) but I don't know how high a priority that would be.
I died to this once.
You sort of have have to be supplied to do this quest... magic weapon is a requirement.
QuoteBut seriously, the quest is much like any other on the server - with the right party or preparations, it's a cakewalk. For others, it can be deadly. Perhaps a DM with some time can take a look at it and give it a tweak or two (I love seeing quests change over time, personally) but I don't know how high a priority that would be.
Correction. With blur the quest will be a cakewalk and not a deathtrap should you lag a little bit.
I don't really think you should -need- a certain kind of potion or spell to survive a 2-6 quest. While the reward is quite good, the missile spam is just silly.
A dead imp outside the entrance would be cool, I think. It would let you know what you're up against, without being too silly.