I suguest adding a key for the locked door on the boss of this quest. If you prefere to keep it so that you need a rogue to do this quest then perhaps considder moving just a few more of the boxes, from the locked room to the boss room. (It always suck to miss out on all the loot containers) And also moving the transition to the warter out of the loot room. Its just too borring to backtrack through the big quest area.
Anyway discuss.
Not sure its need removing altogether because i like requirements like this on quests. But i do also like other ways, if possible, to get the same thing.
So.
I'd suggest keep it pickable but maybe have an underwater route to that room, that is very nasty... so you can avoid it, but it would have been better to bring a rogue/scout (as it should be for most bigger quests)
I'd keep it the way it is. At the most, maybe have Kedrian [the quest giver] mention something along the lines of "I'd advise taking someone who knows their way around locks and such, lizardmen may be brutes but they aren't stupid."
But this quest -is- a 4-10 quest. Logic would lead most people to assume you need more thna just a smashbot team to beat it.
I'd say let the boss drop it or give a dc to swim around like yalta said.
"But this quest -is- a 4-10 quest. Logic would lead most people to assume you need more thna just a smashbot team to beat it."
Do you need a rogue to get the loot on Sinister enclave?
Do you need a rogue to get the loot on Coral reef?
I am pretty certain I know the answer to this. (cound be mistaking :-))
The problem here is that it is ALL loot containers except 3 that are in the room. So basicly you do a hard quest for 3 loot containers and whatever spawns on the creatures. (Wich are way WAY too manny ccw imo)
I am glad that you agree that there's way too many CCW's, Disco. Major props for that!
I like the suggestion of a very nasty alternative route. Makes the rogue usefull, but not necesary.
There's also the obvious fact that if you have a smashbot team a WOODEN DOOR should not stop them. Even a stone door, considering all the magic that is put onto weapons and such.
Also- helmeted dwarves make fine battering rams. Just saying.
Personally, I am all for locking loot containers. I used to play on this server where you'd get absolutely no loot but the corpse drops if you didn't bring a rogue - the loot containers at the end of the quests were always locked.
Rogues are generally not useful for their combat abilities, they're useful for their skills. Locks, traps, negotiations, that's the sort of things you bring a rogue for. Not to cut off a few orc heads.
Don't substitute the varied and flavourful RP niche that is the rogue for more hack'n'slash opportunity! People ought to be in trouble if they don't think to bring someone to open locked doors or chests, or to spot and disable traps. Bad consequences for stupid decisions.
Idk, I feel it just makes it more convenient to be a fighter/rogue.
Rogues aren't useful for combat abilities?
Dawg, u crazy.
Yeah, okay, that's a bit too harsh.
But they're still a support class.
Quote from: Porkolt;179465Personally, I am all for locking loot containers. I used to play on this server where you'd get absolutely no loot but the corpse drops if you didn't bring a rogue - the loot containers at the end of the quests were always locked.
Rogues are generally not useful for their combat abilities, they're useful for their skills. Locks, traps, negotiations, that's the sort of things you bring a rogue for. Not to cut off a few orc heads.
Don't substitute the varied and flavourful RP niche that is the rogue for more hack'n'slash opportunity! People ought to be in trouble if they don't think to bring someone to open locked doors or chests, or to spot and disable traps. Bad consequences for stupid decisions.
While i agree, waiting at the end of the quest so he unlocks the reward for the rest of the party is not my idea of "Awsome".
Quote from: "Drakill Tannan"While i agree, waiting at the end of the quest so he unlocks the reward for the rest of the party is not my idea of "Awsome".
Wut?
can't be bothered to wait a minute longer for someone to open a chest for you?
Also - rogues are pwn, when it comes to 'combat' abilities.
Properly buffed and equipped, they can have more AC than fighters.
Assuming the rogue is lvl 9, he deals out 5-30 damage on top of the usual. Add let's say 1d6 for a weapon, 1d6 for flame weapon, and a couple pts for magic weapon/str and you end up with 10-50 on hit. What?
And no offense, and more on topic - it isnt really that hard to put 1 cross-class point in open lock, carry some lockpicking equipment, a dex potion and a set of good tools for occassions such as this quest?
Quote from: Disco;179452Do you need a rogue to get the loot on Sinister enclave?
Do you need a rogue to get the loot on Coral reef?
Yes (i think). And yes, for sho.
The quest is fine, as it is, IMO.
it's pretty unfortunate that non-duchy aligned pcs can't take advantage of that one really amazing thing on this quest
or should i say ninety-four
Missing out on the loot boxes is a decent consequence of not having a lockpicker.
What isn't decent is having to backtrack through a bugged area that endlessly spawns more enemies, so that returning entails having to get through a room that can contain fifty-plus enemies, with more always spawning.
Remove the lock on the door, lock a bunch of the boxes. Problem solved. Still a reason to take a lockpicker (Doesn't have to be a rogue even, my wizard used to do all the lockpicking on 4-10s he was on :p) but not a total imbalance.
"And no offense, and more on topic - it isnt really that hard to put 1 cross-class point in open lock, carry some lockpicking equipment, a dex potion and a set of good tools for occassions such as this quest?"
This defenatly does not fit well with most characters.
Also if you say that rogues is a must on a quest, why stop there? Why not make it so that you also must bring a cleric? Or a bard? Or a wizard? What is it that makes it so that rogues are the ubber class who everyone must bring?
Quote from: Disco;179497"And no offense, and more on topic - it isnt really that hard to put 1 cross-class point in open lock, carry some lockpicking equipment, a dex potion and a set of good tools for occassions such as this quest?"
This defenatly does not fit well with most characters.
Also if you say that rogues is a must on a quest, why stop there? Why not make it so that you also must bring a cleric? Or a bard? Or a wizard? What is it that makes it so that rogues are the ubber class who everyone must bring?
Because they are generally shitty, seeing as most quests don't have traps and locks to get passed to enter really sweet loot areas- and the DC on said open lock containers are low enough for just about everybody?
I cant belive people think rogues are shitty.. Rogues are imo one of the most usefull classes on EFU. Sneak attack, wand use and stealth is not to be undererestiated even on scripted quests.
All i'm saying is that if we want rogues to be more awsome in scripted quests, it shouldn't be done by making them necesary just to open the crates at the end of the quest.
As egon said, lock some, leave the door unlocked. But i prefer the suggestion of an alternative, really dangerous area underwater.
If you want rogues to be awesome in quests, then the way to do that is to add a lot of rogue skill checks that make things easier but aren't necessary. An example would be how a stealther can open the gate of Vrazdn, or social skillchecks on Corals.
Make the locked door bashable by the bashbot team but put a really nasty save or die DISARMABLE trap on it. This would make the rogue wanted but the bashbot team able to get the loot (IF they live through the trap).
Quote from: "Thog the Barbarian Smashbot"*sends a L1 summons at the door, which promptly reduces the poor rodent to a sad pile of ash* *sniff* I'll miss you, Redshirt-rat, but you died in a noble cause. Getting me phat loot.
Why not have it where locked containers are bashable, but there's a chance of destroying what's inside. If you have someone to pick the lock you can get to the contents without damaging them. Hence you always have a chance at the loot, it's just that using finesse will get it to you safely, while brute force could potentially ruin it.
Kind of like a trap that doesn't damage whoever opens the chest, but damages whatever's inside.
It's what they do with ATM machines. They spill ink on all the bills when someone cracks them.
I agree with the original poster in that the quest should not require a rogue. Though I think that there does need to be some very irritating disadvantage to lacking one.
For example on (not purple)crystal mine quest I recall there being a door with such high hp that it can take upwards of five minutes of bashing it with flame weapon or alchemists fire or high strength power attack to break down. Something similiar to that would be good. I think!
QuoteSteering a bit off topic for a moment sorry.
Quote from: Gippy;179455I am glad that you agree that there's way too many CCW's, Disco. Major props for that!
I agree about the CCW's being overpowering. However I also think that the loot table for the quest makes it currently only worthwhile to complete for those potions as none of the coffers can compete with most quests out there.
The last time I did this quest the final coffer dropped a measly stack of 25 disease(or poison I forget) on hit throwing axes. I've never seen anything remotely useful drop from that chest.
Maybe remove a few of the "worthless" items (mundane chainshirts, throwing axes, darts etc.) and replacing them with useful items like healing charms, some more varieties of protection charms, the odd stack of 2-3 critical/serious healing potions and the like.