I know ahead of time that promotions and advancement are supposed to be seen as a sign of "Prestige" and "Accomplishment". Truth be told though I think that's kinda bullshit and the bar is set too high on EFU.
They shouldn't be handed out like candy to people but I think it's something that needs to be re-evaluated and considered in every DM faction on EFU.
There's been one Armada Veteran (unless I'm mistaken.)
One Favored Son (Again, unless mistaken)
One Zeulisad (The other two PCs who were Zeulisad were given that as their first rank from the Get-Go, so that kinda is unusual).
Faction action is hindered a lot because some PCs feel they need permission of "The higher ups" (DMs). By that logic if we had more PC's in higher posts, willing to take risks and either give assignments to lower ranked PCs or accept and give them permission for their ideas then there would be more PC faction initiative than we already have. Especially in the lower/entry level rankings
That sounds like a pretty good thing to me!
I am not sure I understand your argument. Ranks should be given away on what basis then if not accomplishment?
FWIW, you're neglecting the fact that we've also had factions where some of the highest positions have been held by PC's. Master-At-Arms Ferdinand, for example. The Sons and the Conclave are only several months old, and thus of course have not had many higher ups. Within the first 5 months of the Watch or Spellguard, we saw similarly low numbers.
Achievement is fine and absolutely warranted! I said the bar was set too high!
There's been Three PCs who have achieved "Lord" status since the change so I really don't feel the "Too new" argument isn't all that strong to be fair.
I'm not saying that everyone should be promoted and such. That's naturally impossible. I just think it's something that should be addressed more often, was all.
It does seem comparatively easy to earn a Lordship as opposed to the difficulty of earning a faction promotion and (though I'm speaking from a position of relative ignorance here) it seems like authority and perks of Lordship are similar to that of Veteran, but the latter is considerably more difficult to earn. As such, I agree with RWG's sentiment.
Lordship is not easy to earn in my opinion. Just putting it out there.
First of all, you editted your post to say the bar was set too high -after- I posted my response.
Secondly, I don't necessarily disagree that it is harder to become a Stygian Veteran, than to become a Lord. However, that sort of says something about how much authority each wields, comparitively. A Stygian Veteran has a larger influence, in many ways, than a Lord does in the present scheme.
It is a conscious decision to make Lord a little easier, because if we did not, then we'd be having this discussion, on how Lord was unattainable. The Lord system does not work without them, whereas the factions function fine, without needlessly promoting people beyond where reason dictates they should be.
I am not sure I understand what the solution to the problem you perceive is, though. Other than to lower the bar, which doesn't seem like a necessarily good move to me.
I also agree with RwG's sentiment as well.
I agree with RwG too. When I was in the Stygian Armada it felt like a near impossible feat to even gain the rank of Veteran and that turned me off from trying. I found it was very similar in the Transcendant Conclave.
Attaining Veteran status is indeed very difficult and it is intended to be that way. I don't think that's going to change.
You found it that hard in the Conclave because you actively set out to play a PC that no one could or would get along with, plum. <_<
The thing both of those factions have in common is a gradation system, whereby you can attain higher levels of authority/perks, without actually advancing in rank.
While I understand well the sentiments being expressed here, and sympathize with the difficulty of being promoted in a faction, I am not certain I see us lowering the bar. It is high for a reason: we want the people who get there to stand out. If you feel that someone deserves that promotion though, and we're merely overlooking them, do not be afraid to mention it to us.
Yes I did! But, I still agree with RwG :P
Also I would think that the Duke Trenda trusts the word of his soldiers over that of his nobles. Something a lot of people seem to forget 3 of the Lords on Ymph were exiled from Old Port for exiling Ixpadia. If criminals can become lords I doubt the Trenda would have much of a high standard.
I agree some things seem sort of harder than they should be to attain, but I approve of why it's kept like that.
Rather than just make things easier (though maybe Lord and what not could use some help) I think I would prefer progress to be more clear-cut with really obvious bars set, even if they're hard to come to.
Things like the honors needing the recommendation and involvement of other PCs, or acquiring gold sums or whatever materials, that are already acquirable, seem like optimal examples.
I don't really know how Conclave degrees work, but their system seems well thought out. I see a lot of people in various ranks through time.
Things like just being more or less chosen or favored to be risen like lord/some honors/favored son/whatever, seem sort of disappointing when you are just more or less left in the dark regarding any possibilities, but I can understand how some things need to be like that to an extent.
Anyways, don't really want to come off as complaining instead of suggesting, so yeah.
I agree with RwG on the broad strokes, but Dr. D makes a great point: politics on Ymph are peculiar. It's the place where Senuspur puts nobles of questionable loyalty so he can keep an eye on them at arm's length. Trenada calls the shots while the Lords get to keep their high status, because that is the way (political) balance is maintained. It is not balanced out from the player perspective because that is not the reality of the situation.
TBQH, current EfU politics reminds me more of real-life politics than it ever has at any point in the server's history. That, for me at least, is a good thing.
We're probably going to remove the Armada honor requirement involving contracts to better suit their new role as an elite 'praetorian guard' of the Duke, rather than a mere mercenary company, but other than that there will not be any changes.
I simply don't see how lowering the standards of faction promotion solves any issue; in fact, there is no issue. If players need faction promotions to start being proactive, as you infer, then...yeah, they don't deserve it. Not much else to say.
I think the less people are drawn towards ranks and inner achievements the better. I used to get stuck on trying to be promoted and stuff but that's no where near what makes anything entertaining. Just work at your character's personal goals and agenda, using the faction as a stepping stone or useful tool, and the other perks, such as ranks, will come with it in time.
Quote from: lolmagics;180086I used to get stuck on trying to be promoted and stuff but that's no where near what makes anything entertaining.
One of my most enjoyable characters was probably one of the shittiest members of the faction to which they belonged in all of that faction's history. One of the best faction characters I ever interacted with was also a complete failure to their faction.
Moar drunk and crooked Infantrymen, please. Considering their new position in the grand scheme of things, there's a lot of room for decadence there.
I think the point is that a few more higher ranked people in a faction would allow the lower ranked ones to ask a PC for approval, rather than a DM. That would in turn create more faction action.
Quote from: Lulzebub;180087One of my most enjoyable characters was probably one of the shittiest members of the faction to which they belonged in all of that faction's history. One of the best faction characters I ever interacted with was also a complete failure to their faction.
:( Roland Hyrenex was not a complete failure, he just lacked badass ranks.
Aside, Faction Achievement is difficult, but well worth the effort. I've noted that individual prestige gets more kudo ranks than faction prestige...heh
Coming from somebody that has never had any IG rank (and doesn't really want it), I feel there are far too many chiefs and not enough indians. I would say the opposite is needed, raise the bar and make the entire rank system actually mean something. Personally most of my PC could care less when somebody says "I'm such-and-such" rank because so is half the server so it loses it's meaning.
That is a matter of the faction prestige, not the amount of ranks. People and PC factions usually create their own ranks, which they have all the rights to do, however it's irrelevant to compare the amount of those people who claim ranks inside PC factions, to those that earn them in public factions such as Sons and Armada. Their influence and depth is in another level compared to PC factions.
Titles are what is irrelevant and the fact that everybody and their brother walks around claiming this rank or that, be it faction given or made up (i.e.; Painbearer). If everbody walks around saying they're the C.E.O. then the title of CEO has no meaning.
Edit instead of double posting...
example: one low ranking PC that is the only indian and there are two ranking PC's that can both use the low ranking PC as a sort of henchman. Which PC is the comodity?
Ya'll can have your ranks, I'll play the flunkies.
I think the sole reason for this is because of the way the ranking systems work. In groups like the Watch and House Sharboneth, there was a very obvious chain of command in which you could syphon up.
While the Conclave does have that, it's generally gained through very non-linear things, rather than just being good at filing / being very proactive. The Stygians are very objective based and the Sons are just chaotic (although I haven't joined so I may be wrong there).
I am pretty certain if these groups had obvious hierarchy like the Watch/Sharboneth did, nobody would be complaining about this. And regardless of whether you like this or not, I think this is what causes so few characters to rise the ranks rather than just high standards.