This item property absolutely does not work.
After testing it, the spell immunity mitigates neither the damage nor the paralyze.
Is there any way for this to be fixed?
If not, then this item property likely needs to be changed off certain items in the module.
The spell also doesn't include spellcraft in the check vs paralysis, while things like drinking ale or tanglefoot bags do. If that could be modified, or is desired to be made to include it, I think it would be more balanced.
How about making spellmantle work against it too
Spell Mantle doesn't work because Evard's doesn't check Spell Resistance. That's one of the reasons why it's so good, as it actually stands a chance of getting through a L9 Druid or Cleric with Spell Resistance cast, as well as beating up Nightrisers.
The damage still comes in large chunks rather than in small hits by the tentacles that could be countered with a blur?
From what I've witnessed, this spell is very overpowering and there's absolutely no way to counter it if the spell immunity does not work.
(except small stature which makes it perhaps even lamer)
Freedom counters the paralyze effect.
Same applies to other spell immunity items, web, entangle, etc.
It works when you're hit directly by the spell, and when you come out and back in, in the AoE, the spell affects you!
Any spell that doesn't check spell resistance will not be able to grant immunity from it.
I believe the issue isn't so much the paralysis - which is very short duration - but the large chunks of unavoidable damage. This is one of the few, if not the only, spells that inflicts damage that can't be avoided. There is no save to halve the damage, which can be very significant.
Yes, a level 4 spell should deal out decent damage. Not to mention if it's empowered to level 6.
The spell also stacks in one area and each new one attempts to paralyze (and the rest continue to at least deal damage, not sure if the new paralyze attempt was changed on EFU). Once you are stuck there, it does just crazy amount of damage to you. I don't think I've ever witnessed anyone escaping from the evard's when they've been paralyzed once and more comes to the same point.
Wow, a lot of exaggeration about this spell.
Firstly, I have used this spell in anger maybe 30 times, and in that time I have got maybe 2 or 3 paralysis out of it. This is because any mind blocking spell will block it, you don't need freedom. That is protection from alignment, clarity, lesser mind blank etc. Even then the stun is 1-2 rounds or thereabouts, hardly a game turner.
The damage for this spell is almost exactly the same as an elemental spell of one level lower. So a fireball at 10 does 35 damage pre save, likewise an Evard's at 10 does around 35 average damage.
Empowered Evard's at 11 does around 55 average, while empowered fireball (10 max) does 52 before save. Empowered Issac's at 11 (10) is 52 as well.
Now there are some distinct advantages to the spell. Obviously the avoiding spell resistance is the hot number one item, making it good for risers, drow, druids etc.
The damage is physical, which is good verses casters (most of whom wear elemental resistance 24/7).
The damage cannot be 1/2ed with reflex save, and there is no evasion roll, so it is good for collecting rogues.
On the down side, the damage is not normal AoE. The first two targets get full damage (let's say average 35/35). Every one above that starts to weaken the damage. So three is 23/23/23 damage. Four is 17/17/17/17. Five is 14/14/14/14/14. If you hit five targets wearing blur and PfA, you may as well equip darts and start throwing them for all the good it will do you. Your fireball does 35 to all five, saves to a 17. I have hit 18 targets with a fireball/Mestril's, with an Evard's… well, you just cannot use the spell for that (less than 4 damage average each).
The damage is physical. This is good verses casters, as mentioned above but is less good verses barbarians, and blur, and stoneskin and blunt % immunity. It's not like it isn't possible to prevent this damage, it's just different. So your 35 to a barb in blur is 26, on stoneskin 21. A fireball would do 35 against such a foe.
The save for this spell is as follows: 1d20 + caster level (to a maximum of 20) + 4(tentacle's strength modifier) + 4(tentacle's size modifier) versus
1d20 + base attack bonus + strength modifier + size modifier. Good verses mages, less good verses tanks. If you try and shoot a druid in bear form or a mage in troll/umberhulk form (or half the NPC monsters you might shoot) the spell will be much less useful.
The spell creates a ground effect. Now if we had heartbeats, this might be useful, people would keep taking damage. But they don’t. Since you have shot this at your enemies, you are usually just making the terrain lousy for your allies. To add to the difficulty, the borders of this spell are REALLY difficult to locate, so people often run into by accident. Because it is a persistent AoE, you can kiss invisibility goodbye for the next 3-5 rounds, making it an exciting spell if you don’t drop your foe immediately. In addition, people most likely to abuse this spell are conjurers, who also have many stupid pets who run in and out of the tentacles like an excitable dog with a sprinkler.
The spell doesn’t affect small folks. This is a boon and a curse. It's good if your group is all small folks, and is good if the caster is small (it becomes a defensive spell). However it can also be a curse. If you run into Ogreribbit, and find four of your five offensive spells are Evard's, (and yes I have been there) you know you cannot win the fight.
So for a spell one higher than fireball/Merstil's, it's good, but not broken. By comparison Ice Storm is a part physical/part elemental level 4 that is undodgable. Likewise with level 4 Issac's. And neither of these have the annoying ground effect problems. Issac's does suffer from diminishing AoE effect on multiple targets (although in a crazy weird way, its 35, 32/3, 29/3/3, 26/3/3/3 etc. so silly).
Note also that 35 average damage actually isn't that much. If your average barb gets to melee range with a mage, you can expect a KD and two attacks a round. That is going to be over 35 damage a round average, with a perma-lock stun attached to it. Yes, with haste, the mage will burst damage a bit faster than your barb, (although a single great axe crit in a hasted round will equal the numbers), but the mage is casting a spell once per rest, the barb can do this round after round. And if you are empowering Evard's, remember your barb at 11 would have three attacks, four with haste. With just rage that is 75 damage a round average verses low AC.If you add bulls, magic weapon and haste, it is 96 damage average on low AC. Compare that to 55 damage for one Evard's from an unhasted conjurer or two Evard's with haste at 110 average damage. It's really not that exciting.
In general, any empowered spell is annoying. A hasted level 9 evoker can hit a crowd twice in a round for average 52 damage each (two empowered fireballs) with a save in the mid twenties.
Evard's is designed to be a mage killer, and it does that well. It is not as awesome as it might look at first glance (although it certainly doesn’t suck either).
Isaac's storm can be countered by having Shield up, the other spells you mentioned by elemental resistance (add blur or stoneskin for the physical aspect of the icestorm to really take the edge off). Both those spells can also be blocked by spell resistance or spellmantle.
Nothing blocks the damage from Evards. You could have stoneskin up and take 50 rather than sixty damage if empowered, , woopee. Yes, being paralyzed by it is avoidable, but the damage is not. Two casts of it and most pcs are toast.
This is because of a dumb change that clumped the damage of all the tentacles into one hit.
Evard's damage can't be blocked, that is what seperates it from all the other spells.
The damage of the spell is not exaggerated scrappa. It's unmodified. I use that spell for easy frags on pvp servers regularly. It's quite a lot of fun. There is absolutely no counter for it either which is what makes it so effective. I play predominantly small characters and even I think the spell is one of the most powerful out there and has no counter.
The empowered varient is one of the best spells in the game hands down. In addition evards is continious damage, you can stack it, thus you can use it in such a way that to approach you is certain death. Where as ice storm is one shot damage.
@TheImpossibleDream.
It isn't unmodified damage, blur etc block it. Its just every day bludgeoning damage. Secondly, here it is not continual damage. It is one shot, since there is no heartbeat counter. Your foes only get hit once. After that its just a liability if you or someone else enters that AoE.
Empowered is good, but my point is it is less useful than, say, empowered fireball verses a barb. If that barb rages with a bulls on, you know the damage will be way lower than a regular elemental damage spell, because str is the counter.
The counter is being a halfling.
It shouldn't be doing big bursts of damage since 1.69.
@ Nihm (sorry missed your post first time I read up) The damage is just different, so you have to think about it differently. As mentioned above, with dam resist and high str a higher level barb will shrug off most of the damage.
If you are playing a mage and you are worried about the spell, cast bulls and stoneskin and transform into an umberhulk. With the extra size and str, suddenly you will take a heap less damage and that is dropped by 10 again. Yes, the empowered version will still do you damage, but its a freaking level 6 spell! It would suck if it didn't.
Quote from: Groucho the Marxist;180244It shouldn't be doing big bursts of damage since 1.69.
EfU:A has Evard's working the old way, not the updated way.
Frankly, Scrappy, to be blunt, it should be hard to kill a nasty, high HP barbarian with only one or two spells. The problem with Evard's is it's great in damned near every situation, and has no obvious counter that people have access to outside huge HPs. That makes it way more useful than near every other spell in the game and, frankly, I think it needs to do the damage properly, like the 1.69 changes had implemented.
Have Evasion allow it to be dodged, have it do a mixture of elemental (Acid?) and physical damage.
It should be working the updated way, if it isn't then someone should fix that.
That creates its own problems. Each tentacle does 1d6 pls 4 damage, so a single blur potion cuts 2/3 of all damage. A stone skin kills it dead.
It is supposed to attack as a plus 2 weapon, bypassing blur at least, but that is still bugged, and it doesnt.
Nerfing it from a fiddly, but useful spell, to a very weak one, is hardly a fitting solution.
The way it is is just too much and you know it. If you're hasted you can hit someone for well over 100 damage a round with -no chance to save, avoid, counter, or resist- it. In fact, you can do that to four or five people. Then they also must resist the DC ~24 paralysis or it's game over for sure.
Empowered tentacles has been changed to just empower the number of tentacles, and not the damage. Additionally a raging barbarian with buffed strength will hardly be touched by this spell. It's really great for crushing WIZARDS and ROGUES but that is about all.
same level Barbarian vs Buttercup
Buttercup = 1d20 + 18 versus Barbarian = 1d20 + 27
As you can see in this case the barbarian has quite an advantage. The damage is calculated individually as well, so that every tentacle will do 1-2 less damage. What few tentacles actually hit will not actually do that much damage! It would take a lot more then evards to stop a raging barbarian, in a wizard vs barbarian fight.
Wow I did not intend to spark a debate about nerfing the spell. Only to state that a potentially useful item property on certain items in game does nothing. I will confirm to Howland that after testing this on EFU I went to a basic module to test if this property works. It does not and the spell as of 1.69 applies the damage of each tentacle seperately.
You simply cannot block evards unless they change it to check spell resistance, defeating much of the spells power.
On a level 11 Wizard it would be
1d20+19
vs
1d20 + base attack bonus + strength modifier + size modifier.
It's pretty great are crushing everything except a RAGING BARBARIAN or a special form Druid to be honest. Either way, the original post or the ones following aren't targeting Buttercup, just so it's known, but rather the fact that this spell can do well over 100 damage in a round with no counter.
Immunity to Evards is OP anyway. >.>
I fail to see why its overpowered when two base races are immune to it at level 1. In order for me to gain immunity to evards assuing the property worked. I have to remove a far superior item and leave myself extremely vulnerable to other spells as a result.
Evard's is pretty much a rubbish spell useable in very few situations beyond a solo gank as a small caster. You can stop whining about it now, it doesn't need any changes.
@lolmagics
QuoteThe way it is is just too much and you know it. If you're hasted you can hit someone for well over 100 damage a round with -no chance to save, avoid, counter, or resist- it. In fact, you can do that to four or five people. Then they also must resist the DC ~24 paralysis or it's game over for sure.
If you read the spell description, or my post, you would know that a) there is a save, its just not a regular one and b) if you hit five people, you will do a whopping great 14 damage to 5 people at once. With haste that is 28. Empowered it is 22 (44 with haste). With a blur pot on that is 9 (18) damage and 17 (34) damage. Hardly that scary.
So if you want an easy defense against the spell, walk around in a group! Summons will do if you cannot find a friend.
Also, having thought about it more, druids or anyone with access to the polymorph spell can make themselves immune by shifting into a small animal or child shape...
Quote from: Caddies;180286Evard's is pretty much a rubbish spell useable in very few situations beyond a solo gank as a small caster. You can stop whining about it now, it doesn't need any changes.
Yes!
HUm, does polymorph form goblin block it?