I think the new Warden's District is great, with one exception:
The place where there is most likely to be PvP, at the fountain between the transitions to the Ziggurat and Docks, is right next to the Docks transition.
What this seems to do, to me, is to encourage transition abuse, where a player can transition back and forth to his advantage. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I think that in PvP you get so heated that you're not thinking clearly, and a lot of times you will "do what it takes" to win even if that entails bending the rules a little.
My suggestion, then, is to space out the transitions a little more, maybe put some distinct feature like the fountain a little farther out and have it serve as a sort of landmark. That way, you can't hop across a transition, heal and buff, and then hop right back and get directly in to the melee. You will have to run a fair distance while evading pursuers before you can effectively escape into your respective district.
I suspect that it will ease things up on the DMs if they aren't forced to possess Docks NPCs to beat on Stygians or whoever else.
Anyway, I'm still new here so I really don't like to make suggestions to people who have been at it way longer. So please let me know if I'm wrong about any of this and if I am, don't be offended! Thanks for reading!
I tend to agree with this, TBH. Especially considering how much PvP has taken place there already.
I do believe that it was made that way to cut down on 'travel time' between the major areas (Docks, Zig) but maybe it could be spaced out just a little more.
Fully agreed. Its far too close together to set up decent PvP between the two districts.
Agree with all of the above. Seen too much transition abuse in the past two major PvPs for my liking!
Maybe add a rubble placeable that you need to talk to get over. Tumble check 5 -- but it just stops people from going over in combat.
High DC Tumble check (15, or 20) when in combat, automatic success when out of combat. That'd be best, in my opinion.
No talk things on transitions please. As for the distance, the Ziggarut is just as close, maybe you're just not used to losing over on the Duchy side yet <_<
However, a more 'central' type area where all three factions cross would be better. Adding a little distance to each transition would be great.
Ziggurat isn't as close! Spacing them out some would definitely be sweet regardless.
I love the redesign of the district, but I didn't even consider what has been suggested. Now that it has been pointed out, I have to agree that it would likely be a good idea.
Good luck doing that without having to rebuild half of the zone, though. But yes, a few more tiles with a curving alleyway should do the trick.
For cowards who want to flee a fight and stay out of the fight, a conversation-placeable won't work at all.
tropic, you're one of the best newbs ever. We all like you just fine. Suggest away.
As for this, totally in agreement. It wouldn't take more than a few rounds to run from the Ziggurat to the Docks. Keep that fountain in the middle though, since it's such a nice set piece.
Start at the closest part of the fountain and run to the Zig...
Start at the closest part of the fountain and run to the docks...
We're talking 2 seconds (mostly because of a do-dah at the zig trns). At least twice now I've seen the action on the Zig side of the fountain giving them the advantage for transition abuse.
I say if you want to PvP then take advantage of the landscape of any map you wish to do it on. I would think setting the location of a PvP is part of the strategy involved and that nothing needs to be changed for the reasons given.
This is called strategy...
Quote from: Cerberus;184543This is called stratagy...
Strictly speaking, it's called strategy, but okay.
Quote from: lovethesuit;184547Strictly speaking, it's called strategy, but okay.
lmao... If you're going to follow me around correcting my spelling you have your work cut out for you, but thanx for being so kind.
Hukt on fonix wurkt 4 mee.
.
Your PvP strategy should never look like a Scooby-Doo chase scene.
The Ziggurat is not as close to the Fountain as the Docks.
Quote from: Cerberus;184556lmao... If you're going to follow me around correcting my spelling you have your work cut out for you, but thanx for being so kind.
Hukt on fonix wurkt 4 mee.
.
There's a really great name for a Duergar PC in there somewhere.
Well, agreed obviously. A small bit of alley before the transition would be simple enough.
Quote from: ScottyB;184559Your PvP strategy should never look like a Scooby-Doo chase scene.
Then why did my first character get ganked in such? >.> (Note: I'm just being sarcastic here)
In all seriousness, I agree, the major Docks/Zig PvP 'area' should be fairly equidistant. Adding some space like an alley would be fine just to keep the Docks from getting such a quick driveby.
Quote from: Cerberus;184543Start at the closest part of the fountain and run to the Zig...
Start at the closest part of the fountain and run to the docks...
We're talking 2 seconds (mostly because of a do-dah at the zig trns). At least twice now I've seen the action on the Zig side of the fountain giving them the advantage for transition abuse.
I say if you want to PvP then take advantage of the landscape of any map you wish to do it on. I would think setting the location of a PvP is part of the strategy involved and that nothing needs to be changed for the reasons given.
This is called strategy...
So lets say in theory; its completely acceptable for a Docks PC to be fighting within the fountain itself, with a Stygian. Then when Stygians mates turn up, Docks PC runs off into the transition which takes less than a second from his current location.
Comes back 5 seconds later, buffed, fights, runs and transitions again.
Thats acceptable to you?
All theoretical ofcourse.
Quote from: UrkoNeedsAStiffDrink;184625Thats acceptable to you?
No it's not. I don't do it (
or try not to, I have run and kept running), I'm assuming you don't do it. If you check my past posts you will realize I am very against taking advantage of the system or AI without a VERY justifiable IC explanation. But I also feel that it should be the players that need to make this choice not to cheat the system. Changing every map that seems slightly off balanced seems a bit extreme and more work than the DM's should have to worry about. I could also point out other threads saying that they would like to see NPC actually fight monsters that chace their PC to another map they consider safe.
My turn for questions...
How does changing this particular map justify that in one case it's ok to run from map to map being chased and not in another situation? I'm guessing the answer to this is it's ok to cheat an NPC but not a PC. The PC's are smart enough not to follow a PC to the "safe" area so if they run and the PC chasing them doesn't follow what reason does he have to now say his PC isn't allowed to go back to the fight after healing/buffing?
Quote from: Cerberus;184769Changing every map that seems slightly off balanced seems a bit extreme and more work than the DM's should have to worry about.
Having spent time on the staff of several NWN persistent worlds, I can confidently say that leaving things up to human decency often results in disappointment. I suspect that putting in the time required to prevent abuse and/or exploits will pay off in the long run by requiring less time spent dealing with problems and complaints after the fact.
It's a sad world we live in.
Personaly I don't see how changing the map is going to change how this plays out. Based on where the fight originates either side can do this Scooby-Dooism... Change the map and by the simple logic of stratEgy or maybe 'luck' of where action is, players will exploit game mechanics because "it's a sad world we live in".
[shrugs]
Quote from: Cerberus;184769My turn for questions...
How does changing this particular map justify that in one case it's ok to run from map to map being chased and not in another situation? I'm guessing the answer to this is it's ok to cheat an NPC but not a PC. The PC's are smart enough not to follow a PC to the "safe" area so if they run and the PC chasing them doesn't follow what reason does he have to now say his PC isn't allowed to go back to the fight after healing/buffing?
Running over a transition to an area filled with NPC's to rebuff/heal and jump back to the combat is absolutely bad taste and wrong.
Nothing's wrong with however just simply getting the fuck out of the non-NPC area where the PvP occurs into the safety of the Zig/Docks.
It's simply a matter of courtesy, mm?
I'm just saying, I've seen people take advantage of transitions to escape, buff then rejoin the fight, both on EFU and near enough every other server in NWN.
Human nature. Without policing, its a sad thing.