EFUPW Forums

Discussing on IRC earlier, it's clear that a lot of the mechanics page is rather outdated, and also that there are a large number of undocumented features that players simply don't know about. This makes it hard for new players and even non-nosey old players to pick it all up. Add to that that there are a lot of mechanical updates that are scattered throughout the Announcements without an index, and it's difficult to keep track.

Therefore, rather than expect the DMs to pick out every change, I'm asking the rest of the playerbase to help me fill in the gaps. If we get as much as possible, someone can add it to the Mechanics page. Where the Mechanics page is correct, I haven't added it here.

So, here goes! Please tell me if I'm incorrect or missed something, and a bit thank you to the DMs who've made all the amazing custom stuff we have. Going over everything I can find, I realise just how much effort's gone into making this a truly distinct game in its own right. Rock on, guys.

Captain Obvious's Obvious Disclaimer:
The DMs are not responsible for the upkeep of this post. If you take this info as accurate and it gets your PC eaten by a Great Lizard/blown into little bits/cursed with boils, direct all hate mail/IRC rants/yelling through letterboxes to me, Egon, personally. I will be only too happy to listen to your whinging ignore it.


The Mechanics
This page  (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/index.php?pageid=mechanics%22)is mostly correct, but there are some notable changes, described below. Overrides are all optional, and you can start playing EfU right now. No Overrides, No Haks? No Problem!


Environmental Hazards

Underwater
Underwater areas will slow your PC down. This speed decrease is worsened the heavier the armor or shield you have equipped. The penalty is reduced by the EFUSS Swimming skill and removed by Freedom of Movement. You have a limited air supply, after which you will have to make Fortitude saves or suffer damage each round. Your ability to hold your breath is improved by high CON, the Steel  Lungs Perk and Sea Caves domain.

Corpse Blight
A contagious disease contracted in certain areas. Can be cured by Remove Disease or Salutary Tonics, but not by Remove Poison. Will infect other PCs close to you.

Hostile "weather"
 Some areas are just plain nasty and will regularly hit you for a specified amount of damage as a result of the dangerous conditions.


Spells

Protection from Alignment/Magic Circle from Alignment
Now have the Protection from Law and Protection from Chaos options, if you use the override here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/index.php?pageid=downloads%22)

Stinking Cloud, Cloud of Bewilderment, Cloudkill, Web
These only trigger on a creature entering the cloud, not on consecutive rounds.

 Grease
As above, but additionally no knockdown effect.

Vampiric Touch
 Does not require a touch attack in order to work.

Ghoul Touch
Does not require a touch attack in order to work.

Poison
If cast on a potion or food item, will cause it to be poisoned with Large Scorpion Venom. Anyone consuming the item will suffer the effects.

Bestow Curse
If cast on an equippable item, will add a hidden "cursed" property, but no other penalties.

Darkness
Bioware standard, Mechanics Page outdated

Ultravision
Bioware standard, Mechanics Page outdated

Summon Creature
Using a Conjurative Focus on a suitable reagent will set the next one of these spells that a PC casts to using that reagent's summoning theme.

Lesser Dispel/Dispel Magic
Spell Resistance applies to these, and therefore so does level-based Spell Immunity such as Globe of Invulnerability. Added an SR debuff for lesser dispel, dispel magic on any creatures with  SR of -1 and -3 cumulative, respectively, lasting for 2 turns.

                              Firewall
Now applies a 2d6 damage combust burning effect to  anyone going through it.

 Ball lightning
Projectiles do 2d6 instead of 1d6 damage.

Animate Dead/Create Undead
The summons from these can be upgraded by  the caster. See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35292%22)

Flame Weapon/Darkfire
May be set to one of several elemental damage types by DM request or certain perks. See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30068%22)


Cleric Domains
We have more of these available, so the majority of Forgotten Realms domains from 3rd edition D&D exist. See here (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32173%22) for more information and here to download the override (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/index.php?pageid=downloads%22).


Summoning
Summon Creature spells all require a certain number of summoning points to call. You may summon multiple creatures, provided you do not exceed your summoning points total. The number of summoning points available is based on your levels in caster classes, and is boosted by Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, and by certain perks. Summon Themes will change the creatures summoned from the default "wildlife" theme to a variety of others. Themes can be modified by Cleric Domain chosen, certain Perks, the Conjurative Focus item, and by selecting one in the OOC area. Different classes have different themes available to select there and Wizard spell school affects the themes available.


Animation
Animate Dead and Create Undead now produce summons that are semi-permanent and last throughout rests. Both spells require a certain number of Animation points to call. You may Animate multiple creatures, provided  you do not exceed your Animation points total. The number of Animation  points available is based on your levels in caster classes, and is  boosted by Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus Necromancy.  Animated minions may be enhanced with various effects via a conversation with them. This will cost you HP, so be careful. They may be additionally given a weapon using the same conversation. More here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35292%22)


Weapons
Whip
These may be dual-wielded if you download the override here (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/index.php?pageid=downloads%22)

Quarterstaff
This is now a double weapon like a diremace. The main hand is a weapon with 1d6 damage 19-20 x2 critical hit range. The offhand is a weapon with 1d3 damage, 19-20 x2 critical hit range.This is a server-wide change, no override needed.


Light Sensitivity
In sunlight, suffer -2 Ab, -2 all saves. Fortitude save DC 13 periodically  (increases as  time passes) or become blind and recieve an additional -2  penalty to  saves and attack bonus for one round.


Stealth
A PC that is translucent has  been heard but not seen. You can't describe them for example. A PC that  is solid but has a glowing orange outline has been spotted. Feel free to  yell "Hey you in the brown leathers! What you sneakin' about for  foo'!".


Polymorph Forms
Most forms are modified slightly for EfU. Additional forms available from the Crafting Menu. Most of these forms are purely for IC disguising/RP, rather than having any significant combat ability. The occasional green flash that happens when polymorphed is a bug not an IC cue, please ignore it.

Kobold
No weapon.

Goblin
No weapon.

Boy/Girl
No weapon. Cute as a button. Can speak in annoyingly childish way. Prone to being clipped around the ear by irritated PCs after a while.

Nymph
Immunity all L2 and under spells, Immunity Enchantment School. Supernatural hawtness. !!May be incorrect, I haven't used it in ages!!

Parrot
Creature Weapon. Taunt. Looks good around pirates. May talk while in this form.

Zombie
Added Immunity to Drowning.


Wild Shape Forms
 No longer refreshes duration on server save, lasts 1 hour per druid  level. Most standard shapes have been modified. Additional shapes available via  the crafting menu. The druid gains access to a selection of improved  forms at level 8. In addition the druid may also apply for and earn even more powerful  shapes. In order to unlock and use these shapes the druid must be level 8  or higher.
 
See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28782%22)


Misc. Crafting Menu Options
Reset Spawnpoint: Resets your PC's post-reset spawning point to the bottom of the Ziggurat.

Thief Mode: Attempts to conceal  what items you pick up. The diffculty of doing so is based on the detection skills of other PCs and your skill at Pick Pocket and possibly other factors. Yes this is IC and PCs can conceivably get angry over your sneaky tricks.

Player Tools
All are accessible via the Crafting Menu, and when set, they show up under Class Abilities on the Radial Menu.

Command Companion
Click a henchman, summon familiar or companion you own to select. Click on the floor to move them, an item to have them bash it, or a character to attack them.

Yank Pack/Search/Detect Evil
These all work as per the chat commands for these features, detailed here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638%22) Click on a PC to activate them.

Ally/hostility System
/c hostile all will set the entire server except allies to hostile.
/c hostile [playername] will set [playername] hostile.
Use unhostile instead of hostile to set character back to neutral.
The command /c setally [character name] will set a PC as your ally, so that when you use a hostile command, these PCs are excluded. You must be standing next to a PC to ally with them. More here (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638%22).

Further Chat Commands
Put familiars and companions into stealth mode, detect Evil or Good on appropriate PCs, diagnose illnesses, dispel your own buffs when you don't want to walk around looking like a tree, steal packs off subdued PCs and more besides. See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638%22)



EfU Custom Items

Heal Skill items
Heal no longer works as standard. Instead, the following items are used  with the Heal Skill.

Antivenom
Removes the "poisoned" status, does not heal any  Attribute Damage. Application DC: 15 (30 when the healing PC is in  combat.)

Salutary Tonic
Removes the "Diseased" status, does not heal any  Attribute  Damage. Application DC: 15 (30 when the healing PC is in  combat.)

Medicinal Herbs
Adds 1 HP per round regeneration for a number of rounds  equal to the amount the PC beats a DC 11 heal Check by. DC is 21 when  the PC is in combat.


Custom Grenadelikes
Flash Powder
Save vs Stun effect

Laughing Gas
Save vs Tasha's Hideous Laughter Effect.

Rotten Fruit
Applies a cloud of flies and splatter effect to the  target. No mechanical penalty. Throwing this at a PC is a PVP action.

Dispel Stone
Casts the Area Of Effect version of a dispel at the target location

Custom Potions
Potion of Duty
Casts Protection from Chaos

Potion of Caprice
Casts Protection from Law

Potion of the Radical Soul
Casts Protection from Neutrality


Other
Shackles
Applies a movement speed penalty and large chance of spellfailure to a PC. May be removed using a shackles key. only to be used on subdued or consenting PCs

Oil
Makes a campfire, to be used for cooking (use the power from meat on it) or to rest near.

Crowbar
Allows opening of doors by using your STR modifier +10 instead of the Open Lock skill. ???I am unsure on the exact stats???



 Player Characters

Character Appearance Customisation
Players may toggle their heads between normal and hooded (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35922&%22), and set backpack and scabbards on their PCs (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29846%22) back using  chat commands.


EFU Skill System (EFUSS)
Custom secondary skill system, accessible via chat commands. These skills are a combination of purely RP ones, and ones that add a small bonus to standard skills, or have scripted checks IG. See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32401%22)  To start, the following commands are helpful.
/c efuss help (help)
/c efuss list (lists skills and available points)
/e efuss add [skillname] [no of points to add] (add points to a skill)



EFU Crafting System
Totally customised crafting system scripted for EfU. Allows production of grenadelikes, summon reagents, healing supplies, potions and more! See here  (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32406%22)and here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29184%22)


Perks
At level Five, PCs may select a "perk", a special bonus ability. Some of these have both bonuses and drawbacks, some are class restricted and some are earnable by in-game actions or application. See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38106%22)



The World

EfU Hunting System
PCs may hunt animals and harvest meat (for RP, or for wilds characters to trade with NPCs for gear and XP) and furs (to trade in with the Skinner for gold and XP). See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30467%22)


EfU Tracking System
You've got to find it before you can kill it! Rangers and Druids may track hostile monsters and NPCS via this ability. See here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16067%22)


Random Encounters
EfU:A has a fully custom Random Encounter System. Encounters can appear as placeable transitions in areas, or by area transitions randomly directing to a new location, so don't be surprised if you get lost! Of course, this goes both ways, and large numbers of monsters don't just wait around, they have been known to attack the city or set up raiding parties. NPC scouts tend to warn of this. More on the random events here. (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30292%22)


Games and Gambling
EfU:A offers PCs plenty of opportunity to lose their hard earned money, or maybe win some. There is a fully scripted Royal Dragon (equivalent of Twenty-One, Blackjack, Pontoon) in-game at Kingsman's Inn and a Dartboard in the Wanton Wastrel. The server also offers arenas in the Gobsquat and Wanton Wastrel where PCs may hold "friendly" brawls without requiring a DM.

Note that some mechanics changes are constantly being implemented or removed!

but this is a grand idea.

heal check in combat is not doubled its +10 for a total of DC 21.

Ah true, that's only the others that go from 15 to 30. Fixed

Just from a quick glance there's a lot missing but I have to say I definitely endorse a player created "missing manual" that explains a lot of the systems and mechanics changes in one place.

This is really awesome. Thank you for organizing everything in one page.

Edit: I believe there are changes to the spell Spell Resistance. I think it provides a bonus against dispel, I'm not sure about the exact mechanics.

Sweet idea.

Light sensitivity

During the day -2 Ab, -2 all saves. Fortitude save DC 13 periodically (increases as time passes) or become blind and recieve an additional -2 penalty to saves and attack bonus for one round.

Wildshape

No longer refreshes duration on server save, lasts 1 hour per druid level.

Most standard shapes have been modified. Additional shapes available via the crafting menu. The druid gains access to a selection of improved forms at level 8.

In addition the druid may also apply for and earn even more powerful shapes. In order to unlock and use these shapes the druid must be level 8 or higher.

Application forms (Incomplete): Ancient Dire Cave Bear, Saber Tiger, Great Lizard

Other Applicable Forms include

Fire Elemental, Water, Air, and Earth Elementals respectively.

Quote from: Egon the Monkey;188342The Mechanics
Spells
Stinking Cloud, Cloud of Bewilderment, Cloudkill, Web: These only trigger on a creature entering the cloud, not on consecutive rounds.
 Grease: As above, but additionally no knockdown effect.

I thought this wasa  bug being worked on? is it really intentional?

The formatting stinks. Other than that, nice work.

it's a problem, but it's there. May as well list it until it is fixed.
Edit: ...And now the formatting's better spaced. A single post is never going to be the best permanent layout though.

Uh Crimson Brew is +3 ac 5~10% immunity negative energy.

The zombie polymorph form can breathe underwater.

Quote from: TheImpossibleDream;188380Wildshape

No longer refreshes duration on server save

Yesssssss!

Quotelasts 1 hour per druid level.

Spell hour (5 mins real time) or day/night time hour (27 mins real time)?

Quote from: John Poirot;188398Yesssssss!



Spell hour (5 mins real time) or day/night time hour (27 mins real time)?

Spell hour.

You might want to mention some items in efu have "Greater" spell charges on them.

For example: "Greater Bulls Strength"

Greater Bulls Strength works just like bulls strength adding 1d4 +1 strength. The benefit of these greater spells is that they stack with the lesser variant making for an ability increase of 2d4 +2.

Needs some formatting though and I'm way too lazy!

Section on summoning points would be enlightening IMO.

This is a great idea, but some things should stay FOIG.  People don't need to know that druids can app for Ancient Dire Dragon form and Dire Tarrasque Animal companions, nor do they need a list of what can be created through crafting.
 
Spell changes should definately be up to date.  It is an unfair expectantion for spellcasters to have to continually test their spells in case they suddenly start working differently.

Yes, agreeing with Nihm. Things like what Crimson Brew does, what Familiars do, what Wildshapes there are should be kept secret! But spell changes, mechanics changes, perks / efuss / backpack and hood / quaterstaff stuff really, really needs to be put out there.

Also, the word attributes has no NWN mechanics meaning. Abilities? Skills? Everything?

I've been banned from IRC for postulating on what Crimson Brew and Elixir of Improvement do. Is this no longer a spoiler-type information?

Quote from: Nihm;188406This is a great idea, but some things should stay FOIG.  People don't need to know that druids can app for Ancient Dire Dragon form and Dire Tarrasque Animal companions, nor do they need a list of what can be created through crafting.
 
Spell changes should definately be up to date.  It is an unfair expectantion for spellcasters to have to continually test their spells in case they suddenly start working differently.

I'm going to reiterate this just because.

Quote from: lovethesuit;188446I've been banned from IRC for postulating on what Crimson Brew and Elixir of Improvement do. Is this no longer a spoiler-type information?

What does Crimson Brew do?  :D

Secrets are for losers. Transparency and absolute equality first and foremost.

That's why I suggested we make a player-managed, off-site Wiki, to be honest. Something completely voluntary and player-maintained, under nobody's authority and the information therein subject only to the better judgement of those who update it. The general traits (but not exact stats) of animal companions, familiars etc. should definetely be listed. So should the main things you can apply for, because otherwise new players and those not part of the in-crowd will have no idea about them. I don't expect or want details, though. Just clear hints of what's there so you can go for it and find out. But mechanics changes should all be 100% public, insofar as they concern PCs.

"FOIG" doesn't make sense, because it's not FOIC: it doesn't matter whether you learn this stuff IC, it's enough to see something once on some PC and then apply the knowledge to your advantage on a new PC. That's why secrets are bad: they create tiers of players and reward player experience, as opposed to character experience. If you enjoy not knowing, feel free not to look into topics like this, and don't ruin the fun of those who do prefer to know.

There's plenty of information I'd love to be more accessible to the playerbase as a whole and presented in a better format, but obviously final editorial control of what and what isn't publicly revealed will always be subject to the dm team's discretion.

Obviously, insofar as your are the editors and you host the information. Since I'm a worst-case-scenario man, in case information was actively kept from the public yet known to some players, hosting an independent Wiki would be best because it would require neither the DM team's initiative nor their approval to update.

By that, I don't mean to say I suspect you to be unreasonable, or to quote ninelines, that "hitler dm is hitler," but I'm naturally suspicious of any possibility of censorship, however slight. It is never anyone's right to control what information other people have. It's just wrong and does more harm than good in almost any scenario.

The biggest reason I support player administration, though, is that it gets things done quicker and takes pressure off the DM team. There's more important things for you to do, and there are plenty of players motivated to share their knowledge.

QuoteIt is never anyone's right to control what information other people have. It's just wrong and does more harm than good in almost any scenario.

What? No, on the contrary it is perfectly reasonable and perfectly legitimate for us to limit all kinds of information. For example, the EFU:A module is "information" and we don't give it to everyone.

Likewise, there's lots of information that although may potentially be known to some players, is not something we have any interest in revealing to the general playerbase. For example, the ingredients and requirements for a Bloodmage ritual - recipes for crafting powerful items - the properties and powers of certain hidden summon themes - what kinds of items drop on what quests - etc. etc. etc.

I can guarantee that should such intimate details of the server be made public, I would stop playing. The greatest reason I play on EfU at all is for the mystery of the setting and design.

Quote from: Howland;188491What? No, on the contrary it is perfectly reasonable and perfectly legitimate for us to limit all kinds of information. For example, the EFU:A module is "information" and we don't give it to everyone.

Likewise, there's lots of information that although may potentially be known to some players, is not something we have any interest in revealing to the general playerbase. For example, the ingredients and requirements for a Bloodmage ritual - recipes for crafting powerful items - the properties and powers of certain hidden summon themes - what kinds of items drop on what quests - etc. etc. etc.

Granted, there is information that shouldn't be known OOC. I'm exaggerating, no doubt. The examples you listed are the sort of detail that needs to be found out IC, because using it based on OOC knowledge is metagaming. However, things such as choosing your animal companion or familiar, making applications and setting goals for your character, are (at least partially) OOC decisions and people should be on the same line here. IC you could theoretically pursue any goal out there, but OOC only some of them are possible and the guy who knows there is such a thing as a Bloodmage ritual is obviously at an advantage to the one who, just as IC, chooses to pursue the path of a Mystic Theurge: one exists of EfU, the other doesn't, and this should be known.

But I'm mainly talking about mechanics changes, not what's in the world. Classes (including companions), spells, vague outlines of summoning themes so you know what you can pursue IC. Like I only recently found out that there are actually diviner perks you can go for. I still don't know how you get them in practice. What they are exactly is best kept mysterious, but that they exist and can be strived for should be public.

There's also a difference between choosing not to tell something, and stopping someone else from doing so. Once the cat is out of the bag, you have no right to force it back in.

Everything you mention is publicly available already to some degree (including the fact that Spell Focus: Divination and Greater Spell Focus: Divination extends "divining" - this is written in the list of mechanics changes - however this was a system that really only existed in the Underdark and was largely limited to equipment possessed by a few factions - and a DM would need to spend a lot of time to implement it on the surface, so isn't something we need to rush to advertise).

Definitely I am all for presenting the basics of our systems and changes in a better way, and for this work load to be handled by the playerbase, but as I said editorial control must be at the discretion of the DM team.

We're really not that unreasonable about it.

Quote from: SkillFocuspwn;188409Yes, agreeing with Nihm. Things like what  Crimson Brew does, what Familiars do, what Wildshapes there are should  be kept secret! But spell changes, ...shouldn't

Paraphrased a bit on the end, but these are the same thing. Spell  changes, new spells (prot from Law, Magic Circle from law), and the  effects of unique powers are the same level of mechanical knowledge. In  it's most obvious example, the effect of a Potion of Duty and the   effect of Prot vs Chaos are the same. it's unfair to any Player to have to test items just to see what they do, when on their future PCs they will know anyway.

Really you have to ask "Does this knowledge enable or hamper RP and/or  gameplay". Knowing how to make alchemist's fire for example, hampers RP  as you don't end up "researching" it or trading recipes.
On the other  hand, a new player and a veteran both get Crimson Brews in a  "Post-Invasion Goody Bag". The old hand quickslots them and rubs his hands with glee. The new guy has  no idea what they do, even on a max lore max spellcraft wizard. So he  wastes a valuable potion figuring it out. Now, all his future PCs know  what this does.

Another example. When I was new to the server I genuinely thought Rotten Fruit was super-cheap Choking Dust and grabbed stacks off the seller before I realised I was wrong. The flipside of that is that people not knowing how awesome Flash Powder or Laughing Gas are won't use these interesting weapons, thinking them overpriced Choking Dust.

Finally, I know what most of the familiars'  stats are and what spells they have at low level, because when Nut changed them I made a load of new mages and druids and had a look. Also, I pay attention to what other PC's ones do. This a is a classic example of secret knowledge that hurts new players. One didn't realise the Fire Mephit was an imp that was basically Kill on Sight to a lot of PCs until I shouted at him and eventually attacked it. Since familiars can play so many roles, turned out he liked the idea of a parrot that would buff his CHA rather than the more shooty Imp. If players don't like a familiar's role they won't use it. Making their spells and feats obvious lets players choose one they'll want to have out, and will be seen in action.
Add to that the inevitable chat about potion effects, familiar stats etc through IRC, tells, talking to other players on facebook, the phone or in the case of say Eq and eliff, yelling "Hey bro look what this thing do!", and FOIG rapidly means Find Out In Gossip. Heck, I know about the poisoning drinks with Poison, the Curse system and half of the things I posted originally in here off other players OOC.

^ What Egon said.

Well said Egon.

If something really is inappropriate knowledge for the player base I think it would be best if it was left to a DM to step in and say so.

Quote from: Nihm;188406This is a great idea, but some things should stay FOIG.  People don't need to know that druids can app for Ancient Dire Dragon form and Dire Tarrasque Animal companions ...

Why not? So that new players won't know that having more powerful shapes is even a possibility?

Quote from: Egon the Monkey;188556Add to that the inevitable chat about potion effects, familiar stats etc through IRC, tells, talking to other players on facebook, the phone or in the case of say Eq and eliff, yelling "Hey bro look what this thing do!", and FOIG rapidly means Find Out In Gossip. Heck, I know about the poisoning drinks with Poison, the Curse system and half of the things I posted originally in here off other players OOC.

I agree with your post 100% but I wanted to highlight this part especially. Because it's not as if these things remain a secret, an interesting mystery to solve IC. (Bloodmage ritual or crafting recipes, on the other hand, can be such mysteries.) This stuff is shared anyway, in private channels. That's the biggest double-standard here. You need to be part of a clique or be bold enough to step forward and ask, which leaves a lot of people in the dark.

If something is such that you can find from other players anyway (say, the 10-20 most experienced EfU players), and that something isn't strictly IC knowledge, it's probably best for everyone to share it publically.

But anyway, this is going a bit off-topic. All this should be eventually combined with the mechanical changes. If you guys list all the changes, I'm happy to help with putting it into a final forum format.

If you know what familiars and animal companions do, Egon, can you write simple descriptions? IMO, the best format would be "The sheep is a dumb animal with low AB and AC, but its fluffy wool makes for great insulation against cold. Mages often enchant its stupid, gleamy eyes with Magic Missile, though more experienced arcanists add a variety of other powers." Basically, what their role is in a party and what they can do right away (like levels 1-4).

Quote from: Barehander;188594If you know what familiars and animal  companions do, Egon, can you write simple descriptions?

I fear I'm pushing it enough just trying to level the playing field  between newbies and old timers just with what potions and grenadelikes  do.

An analogy I've used before to explain this is "Familiars in NWN  are as much a mechanics decision as picking a weapon to Specialise in  on a Fighter. You wouldn't change a weapon's attributes and say 'FOIG  what it does'". However, recently Nut did exactly this, by way of a  change to staves that radically changes their use, and leaving the effect to be a surprise until the info spread. There's clearly no  opposition to making the info on that public though, in fact people want  to see it. Why the feeling that  knowledge of familiar stats would lead to Hideous Powerbuilds, I'll never know. We have  Rapiers available, and Rogues still choose to use Shortswords. Not  every Wizard is a 18 int 18 Con 6 str gnome, 20 STR Half-orc Fighters  are the exception not the rule. Most players can be trusted not to be lame and for example have a LG wizard with a Skull because they like using [spoiler buff I'm not allowed to say].  Familiars are so varied they're not  really a better/worse case anyway, it's whatever complements the PC or  is most fun to use.

Obscuring the stats is no defence against people finding out even without talking to others. It took me 15 min to roll up a half dozen wizards and see what each familiar did for the first 2 levels. While I was there I saw numerous other PCs appear, summon a familiar, then vanish, too. If I'd wanted to I could have found them all out for what they do at L7 within a day, using 1 old PC. I wasn't trying to make a server ruling crushbot, I was just curious. A powergamer would however do the same sort of thing to get the "optimal" familiar. Better to have possibly inaccurate information out than to say "we'll hide it until we're sure the familiars are done". Nobody sensible will whinge about info being out of date as opposed to totally absent. And if it's players posting it, it's not DM responsibility if it's not right, so they can't ruin your day complaining about it.

As for the formatting, I dunno how to improve it beyond when it's done, re-posting it into a new thread where I can have each section as a new post, and have an index post linking to them all.

The reason, imo, for the obscuration of Familiars is quite simply that IG, as a level 2 Wizard, the DMs want you to pick them completely based upon what would make the most IC sense to your character; and while I do agree, those players who know what each of them do through rigorous testing do get better knowledge, I do not believe that knowledge is at all important; I have no idea what the familiars do and don't think it will ever effect my ability to EfU!

Equally, mystery is good; finding a mysterious brew only known on Ymph and quickly consulting a compendium to find out its stats ruins the point in the DMs making these potions (I am pretty certain they did not do it to give the PCs more crushing power). Yes, people will find out and people who don't will be worse off, but this is not game-breaking knowledge!

I have never bothered to seek out the info behind Crimson Brews despite owning them IG simply because, you get information within its description and enough to know when it's useful; it does not leave you wondering what this random red drink is, but you do not need a mechanics exact knowledge to know when to need it.

Equally, a Druid can just find out at level 5/8 what it can turn into and ask a DM if there are any app forms appropriate for their Badger Gnome; yes, knowing the exact stats of them would make it easier on newer players and take away a supposed "edge" that the more experienced players seem to have so imposingly; but the DMs do not put out full monster stats and quest maps with traps and spawns shown to lower this balance; while this would reduce the gap, because EfU is based upon mystery and yes, the mystery of what this potion does or what turning into a batwizard does is just as exciting as what does that giant lever made of bone do?

So keep things hidden, obscure without making completely hidden and keep the EfU Mystery and flavour separate from the NWN mechanics! That's what I say.

A wizard that acts as a spy would want a familiar that stealths well. An evoker militant one would want something that fights with teeth and claw and be good at it, stats are important to determine the attitude of the familiar so that it fits the wizard/sorcerer. If things were as evident as if choosing in between a rat and a hellhound, then it would be fine, but it's not.

Mechanical knowledge about what a certian potion does, should be added in a wiki. Unless the item in question is specifically meant to be enigmatic, there is no real diference from the crimison brew and the barbskin potion: they are both potions, why is one known by all and the other isn't? The elixer if improvement is in it's description said to be very misterious and rare, makes sence it's effects are kept hidden, but flash powder and laughing gas are not.

Also, a wikia would be about mechanical knowledge, and maybe vague world information, ther eis a diference between "To become a bloodmage talk to The NPC at the stargazer village who gives you a quest, this quest drops this item called ancient dragon tooth, collect 3 of these, then collect 52 orc teeth... blah blah blah" to "To become a bloodmage a PC has to find the instuctions for the bloodmage ritual, wich requires the collection of certian items throughout the gameworld and the creation of specifical conditions for it to take place, this is IC knowledge that should not be discussed OOC."

Maybe if the Wikia was an extension of the foruns, and only was edditable by a few people given permision by the DMs, for example, no LtS telling us what the elixer of improivement does, but Egon could edit freely, etc.

As to discovering the purpose of potions...

What happened to asking someone ICly?

Nice work Egon.

Yeah, it really did need some updating =)

Quote from: SkillFocuspwn;188629The reason, imo, for the obscuration of Familiars is quite simply that IG, as a level 2 Wizard, the DMs want you to pick them completely based upon what would make the most IC sense to your character

With the exception of ooze nuts taking the Ooze, necromancers taking the skull etc, there's no great IC reasoning behind choosing one of the more normal familiars over another. On the other hand picking the Raven because it has useful skills that complement your treasure hunter's abilities, or the Parrot as an exotic creature good to aid your diplomacy because you have Persuade, makes IC sense and is useful. RP and character effectiveness are not mutually exclusive, in fact they are interlinked.

A familiar that looks pretty but doesn't do anything that useful to your character won't be used much and so won't generate RP. On the other hand, one of my wizards' familiars was pretty much his right hand. Casting detect spells to secure rooms, firing offence spells when he was invisible, opening a locked door during a DM quest, picking fights with a halfling etc. People still remember that familiar as much as they did the PC. Other mages of mine have used a trap disabling familiar as a real part of the team, sending them ahead to scout out areas and clear them when a rogue wasn't available, or summoned up their familiar to Taunt monsters on quests. Both of those PCs' familiars were selected on the basis that the mechanical benefits would lead to them being used and show off, not just summoned up to cast a buff then forgotten about.

I'm sorry to anyone who disagrees, but familiar abilities should be public.  At least at the lowest levels.  The arguments for and against this are there, and has Egon has pointed out, you can figure it out OOCly anyways.  Why make new players feel more left out than they already are...

*bump* More suggestions on stuff I should include please.

Drowning system for underwater escapades.

The commands /c setally [Full Name].
Once you use /c hostile all, or /c hostile area, anyone in your ally list (persistant over resets), will remain neutral.

This command only works if a player is logged on and in a very close range, say 10 ft, of you.

An explanation of Player Tools would be handy.

Since I have only ever bothered with Control Companion and use chat commands for the other stuff, perhaps you could write it and post it here?

Haha, I don't know how most of them work. I can look into it when I have a moment next week, though.

Another thing: Bard Song. There's changes made to Perform that should be detailed (I have no idea about them), as well as the fact that Bard Song perks require 5 bard levels. Similarly, many cleric Turn Undead perks (though not Whisperer, at least) require 5 cleric levels.

Craft Wand: a crafted wand has 25 charges, instead of the NWN default formula. Individual spells costs have been adjusted according to their power and EfU economy for both Craft Wand and Brew Potion.

This is why I prefer Wiki-form: you could copy everything officially posted on the forums there, and then add these overlooked details.

Here's the Wiki. (//%22http://efua.wikia.com/wiki/Escaped_from_The_Underdark:_Archipelago_Wiki%22) Go edit, polish, and be banned for posting pics of Halfbrood's ass-tat. Yes, it sucks balls right now. No, I don't have the time to format it all nicely. No, you don't have an excuse for not helping with that now. Bwhahahahaa.

Tumble changes:
You need 5 hard (level up skill points) points in Tumble, and 5 or more soft points (DEX bonus, item bonus, taking into account armor check penalty) in Tumble for +1 AC.
You need 10 hard (level up skill points) points in Tumble, and 10 or more soft points (DEX bonus, item bonus, taking into account armor check penalty) in Tumble for +2 AC.

Awesome. I'll be out of order and wasted all weekend starting tomorrow, but I promise to help next week.

Quote from: Egon the Monkey;189261Yes, it sucks balls right now. No, I don't have the time to format it all nicely.

I was able to just quickly spruce up the formatting a bit.

Thanks very much. I'll add the stuff that's in the thread already, but if people can consider it closed and just slap the info on the wiki, that would be great.