I know there is another thread for Animate dead changes but this point is going in the other direction as a suggestion for the spell rather then the effects.
As it stands the spell summons a default shambling corpse of a set low level, wether you are level 5 or 10. I know you can cast it on corpses for for mages etc you can't haul around these heavy corpses which makes it near impossble to make use of the spell.
What i'm suggesting is that the Default summon is improved periodically to level as it the default spell is.
So something like:-
Level 5-6 = Shambling corpse
level 6-7 = Ghoul
Level 8-9 = Skeliton
Level 10+ = Doom knight
There only suggestions as an example not what i'm suggesting they should be. I know you can alter the shambling corpses depending on your necromantic abilities but still at the higher levels they are still fairly useless if you say compared them to the corresponding Summon creature spell.
So i'm thinking change the default spell but so that it can be used without carrying lots of corpses.
I'd say definitely not on Doom Knight as part of the base summon line, even for 10+. That's too powerful for any mage who gets to that level.
Any summon that powerful should need to be earned, preferably through application.
However, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the real use of this spell finding corpses throughout the game, animating them, then corrupting them? Most corrupted Undead Summons are more powerful than any of the basic summons without a powerful reagent thrown into the mix, and are much easier to achieve.
It actually is not default shambling corpse. Atleast on my days the shambler did get tougher and changed into another, sometimes.
And yes, idea is to find corpses and use effort to corrupt and enhance them. Oh boy those things and endless negative energy ray. Ah. Lizards...
Quote from: One_With_Nature;191966I know you can cast it on corpses but for mages etc you can't haul around these heavy corpses which makes it near impossble to make use of the spell.
My point was here is that mages rarely have the strength to be carrying around corpses and as Animate dead is bringing forth an undead minion depending on your power i think it works.
Quote from: One_With_Nature;191966There only suggestions as an example not what i'm suggesting they should be. I know you can alter the shambling corpses depending on your necromantic abilities but still at the higher levels they are still fairly useless if you say compared them to the corresponding Summon creature spell.
As i stated, they are only as a "for instance" not what i suggest it is changed to. I admit if you animate a corpse and apply the upgrades it is powerful but the default summon is what i am interested in seeing changed.
Quote from: Paha Poika;191968It actually is not default shambling corpse. Atleast on my days the shambler did get tougher and changed into another, sometimes.
At level 10 it is still a very weak shambling corpse.
Animation ranges from rather useful to arguably game-breakingly powerful depending on the skill of the caster and the amount of setup time they have to enhance it with corruption, Stone Bones, Negative Burst, buffs, giving at a weapon etc. If, as you claim it is "near impossible to make use of this", then why are Necromancers so popular on EfU and use bodies often?
Thoughts to consider:
- Animations last an unlimited time. You can animate them in advance so as not to need to store the body, and they are worth buffing as they will last longer than your hr/level buffs.
- You can have a goon act as your 'corpse caddy'.
- You can save up for and offer huge amounts for magic bags.
- They outperform summon creature on duration, the ability to heal them at range with commonly found items, the upgrade system, and the ability to hand them a spare weapon which you can then enchant. An undead orc with a L10 Flame Weaponed scythe, Bulls, neg Burst and upgrades will have an entire high level QA shitting bricks. Ask Canzah if you want personal accounts, though I think he used more Lizards and Ogres.
Your straying from the point. I am suggesting there should be an alternative for those who can't/Don't want to carry corpses around all the time. Sure a level 10 undead orc might be powerful but thats nothing to do with what i'm suggesting.
If it is a universal view that all necromancers should have to carry around countless corpses with them then i guess this thread was pointless.
No, the point is that necromancy is very strong, but the idea is, you get what you pay for. Summons are instant smash, necromancy rewards PCs who put the preparation time in. If you spend 2-3 minutes corrupting a shambling corpse into a monstrosity, or you use a body, you get a badass henchman.
If you don't you get a creature weaker than a L5 summon but that lasts ages and can have undead only buff spells like stone Bones and Neg Burst applied. Additionally, Animate Dead is far easier to get as loot than L5 summons. I'm sorry that your level 10 sorc can't use every spell as Instant Doom (tm) but I really have to say: Stop Complaining So Hard, You Have a L10 Sorc That Can Spam Animate Dead O_0.
I am in favour of improving the shambling corspe. For starters, giving it improved unarmed strike, so even if cast spontaneously, without any equipment/corpses, it can do something, becaus else, it is useless if cast spontaneously.
It also makes sence that the corspe becomes stronger with levels, i'm not suggesting a doom knight, just increse it's hit dice.
The point of animation is again, finding corpses. The reason they're so heavy is so you won't be carrying around an entire menagerie, but have a single cool, powerful permanent summon when you need it.
I'm against enhancing the base summon beyond very minor things.
Many mages and Palemasters on this server have managed to carry around said corpses, or earned incredible summons.
Joe Non-Necromancer doesn't deserve it too, without putting any effort into it.
I think aswell carrying around the heavy corpses is part of the deal you make. You shouldn't be able to animate and corrupt a knight every time you need it before getting your hands on one ;), by any means necessary.
The standard shambling corpse can already be more powerful than almost all summons if a necromancer spends time enhancing it.
It is useless when summoned instantly into combat, but that is also true of the animation types that require corpses. As an instant solution you are always better off summoning rather than animating. It takes time and the appropriate skills and feats to make an animated corpse good, whether it is the default zombie or a mist ogre corpse.
Therefore, I think you're mistaken about the default zombie being too weak - in the hands of a necromancer it can be far stronger than the majority of the allies Summon spells can provide.
The point of necromancy, Is to animate dead.. and prepare them to be beasts. Thats why you make chars based around them.
If you want a summon to be amazing right off the bat then necromancy isnt for you it seems?
I think they system implanted is perfect. A commonly found spell, that makes corpses into monsters in a heart beat. Also you can augment arm and buff them turning them into everpresent body gaurds.
They arnt ment to be throw up when you need summon, they are a creature you call up and prepare for a length of time then it acts as your gaurdain or your line of undead soldiers.
quit trying to make Ashara even more uber than she already is. >_>
Quote from: Echigo;191988quit trying to make Ashara even more uber than she already is. >_>
Uber as in casting OP Evard's on people?
black tentacles should stay in japan
It's definitely a trade-off. You get sweet extra power for the effort of carrying the corpses around. The necromancy system is super badass once you learn it, and actually makes most quests pretty easy. Even at lvl 6 my priest could put some pretty ridiculous animates out to help. By the time a wizard could animate they could make some pretty wicked minions.
If anything the system is TOO powerful, and doesn't need anything to make it more so.
Quote from: Echigo;191988quit trying to make Ashara even more uber than she already is. >_>
Beacuse this needs to be tolds repeatedly x.x
Allso!
For my thoughts refer to my post I made before.