Currently the perk stands as this:
Gloom Walker:
Your shadowy ways have learned you extra skills in the domain of blending with the darkness. However, you have developed an aversion for light.
- Bonus: +2 Hide/+2 MS, light sensitivity
This "light sensitivity" isn't really explained well in the perk and i have found it not exactly flavour but more a hinderance in my character progression. Rather then -3ab -universal saves in sunlight i suggest it be changed to something like 50% divine vunrability or -1ab -1 universal during daylight. I think if this perk was explained better a lot of people wouldn't take it. I now have a character who turns blind every 10 seconds and can't do his work in daylight.
Well, it's supposed to make your character more unique, really. Not to go "lol stealth bonus"
Yeah....that's kind of the intent.
"You have developed an aversion for the light." You're a gloom walker. You're not supposed to be able to do work in daylight.
I think it would make sense to give PCs with it Darkvision too because of the severity of the drawback and also because they are supposed to have some sort of night-adjusted eyes. +2 stealth is a sweet bonus though, and the drawback's considerable because of it.
You do understand..this is a bit extreme if yer only reason is flavor..its not like these people are standing in pitch black nothingness for years on end like drow, they may spends weeks, or months but never in pitch blackness since there's a moon even at night. And sure after that they might have to squint when they step outside so a -1 or perhaps even a -2 to ab makes sense, but a minus to universal saves? Exactly how does that effect my fort or my will, reflex perhaps because you see it too late sure, but the other two eh. You need to remember this isn't a server with lvl 15s who can afford -3 ab and - to saves..most people will stay around 7/8 for a long while and if yer a rogue you can't afford the ab loss..even more so for such a minute hide/ms bonus which is the same as one feat. 2 more in either will not make a difference in the major way of things.
I don't have this perk, but I just saw its stats and thought it was silly, do any other perks force you to sacrifice so much?
Don't take it if you think it's not worth it, simple as that!
Like said above, it's perk. They are there to give that bit of unique aspect. You do not have to take it if you don't like it, but you can't also expect to get all around +2 stealth skills for free to go around without any reason or sense to it. That also does not make any more sense. There's also city slicker for city lingers that get that.
I don't see any of the other 'flavor perks with unique aspects' having such massive drawbacks.
light sensitivity is kind of a huge drawback. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a slight change on this when you have the city slicker perk handing out +2/2 stealth in the most popular areas of the server with zero drawback. ;)
Indeed, but if you think about it, I think only city areas around are indeed all and only those popular areas. This is naturally good, but I doubt sewers, any outside ruin areas or anything else affects it. Not even inside buildings (unless they are marked city? No idea).
Gloomwalker however is aimed as certain type of a perk, and gives bonus everywhere. Like you all have said, there's plenty of options, and then there is this Gloomwalker that has major bonus 24/7 with tough drawback but also a valuable roleplay component.
These drawbacks should be made clear, since they will literally tear you up if you weren't expecting it to be so extreme.
I support giving dark or even ultravision to the gloomawlker perk. But i think it's fine.
Is it an exploit to take this if you have light sensitivity already? Will you get super light sensitivity?
My thoughts aren't that the perk is the problem, rather the description of it. As Udenbur says, the drawbacks need to be made clear since they are so severe. Perhaps a link should be provided to a place where light sensitivity is explained.
Light sensitivity, by definition, means the light hurts your damned eyes. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out, really.
Quote from: EfUA_undercover;194846Don't take it if you think it's not worth it, simple as that!
Why not have an "Are you sure?" text box come up when you pick your Perk with an exact stat description of what it will do.
It would stop people picking something that they misunderstood. Its not really spoilerish as you will find out anyway when you take it.
Gloomwalker is not a major perk..for one if someones a ranger all they need to take is the city one and boom, 2/2 in the woods, 2/2 in the city. Halflings get a better bonus, and I mean lets see...
lvl 8 sneak is 11+3(dex)+2(sneaky feat)+3(perhaps skill focus)+2(perk)= 21.. so as you see I'd have to be a high lvl sneak with 16 dex and all stealth feats for that perk to help, because with it now yer above 20 so people without spot points can't see you unless they roll a nat 20. And this does not take into account bonuses from some area types.
Rogue lvl 8: bab 6/1, 2/6/2 saves. So add that -3 to ab and now yer at 3/-2, and while no ones listed the save loss I can imagine its at least -2.. so now yer looking at a lvl 8 rogue with a 3/1 bab 0/4/0 saves.. tell me exactly how a 2 to hide/ms is a fair trade for being crippled like this?
Here is a list of other nice perks with little or no penalty. Cannibal doesn't make yer alignment evil, and drunken haze far as it lists has no penalty like lowered will or reflex and lets not forget Night Stalker... what -2 spot -2 listen in the day for almost the exact same reason as being in tune with the night and so you get a +3/+3. Putrescent Flesh and Blight Walker?..come on do I need to even ask why there's no penalty for being a walking filth bag. Soldier’s Rest +10 temp hp to represent a longer nights sleep so why no slightly longer wait between rests or such, I can keep going if I need to explain why this supposed sweet huge bonus is no better and in many cases worse then others.
The universal save reduction seems to be rather unpredictable. Sometimes i have -3 on will -2 fort -4reflex it seems to be very random.
Also.. Just found out on top of these epic drains you lose your +4 hide move silently bonus from Trackless steps in the wilderness when you fail the blindness save. I really think this needs altering.
blindness itself gives you - ms hide disc conc listen spot ect.
I played a char with it, to be honest OWN I dont understand why your having such issues with it. It isnt anything to major in its sence just need to stay indoors during the day.
The idea of taking that perk is to avoid the sun as the plague. I think it succeeds in it.
The idea of light sensitivity is great for a perk, it's one of those oppourtunities to voluntarily limit your character in a unique way. I love this kind of stuff because although it weakens you, it also adds to your character on a personality and roleplaying level. But shouldn't there be more of a benefit than +2 to stealth? It would make sense if you added something like Low-light Vision or Blind Fight that fits with the penalty. After all, it's your eyes that are weird, not other people's eyes; why would they have a harder time seeing you?
Well to sum it up and put in it in a single post i have had as much as:
* -4 universal saves
* -4 hide/Move silently
* Blindness upon failed save
* -2,-3 ab
For the sake of +2 hide/move silently i don't think this is anywhere near fair for light sensitivity.
If this perk is going to be so harsh on the players stats i suggest that its either changed or made more clear to the player taking the perk that being in the sunlight is going to have these devetating effects.
As for staying in doors in day time.. this means your interation with other pc's is very limited, causing you to be more of a hermit and thus not engaging in RP, especially considering half of the time the server will be daytime.
OWN That is the point of the perk. It would be a fine perk even without the +2 stealth bonus even
Quote from: One_With_Nature;195353Well to sum it up and put in it in a single post i have had as much as:
* -4 universal saves
* -4 hide/Move silently
* Blindness upon failed save
* -2,-3 ab
For the sake of +2 hide/move silently i don't think this is anywhere near fair for light sensitivity.
If this perk is going to be so harsh on the players stats i suggest that its either changed or made more clear to the player taking the perk that being in the sunlight is going to have these devetating effects.
As for staying in doors in day time.. this means your interation with other pc's is very limited, causing you to be more of a hermit and thus not engaging in RP, especially considering half of the time the server will be daytime.
Never disagreed that the penalties should be explained.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;195405Never disagreed that the penalties should be explained.
You didn't -agree- fast enough and that is why OWN is cross with you. :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:
Perk: To benefit
These are not called Flavor, these are called perks.
This gentlemen
* -4 universal saves
* -4 hide/Move silently
* Blindness upon failed save
* -2,-3 ab
Is not a perk, understand light sensitivity does not ADD anything positive.
This is not supposed to just be a way to add flavor to a character because as its labeled, this is supposed to be a perk. And honestly I won't even comment on the idea of removing the +2 stealth bonus
You're wrong in the actual meaning of perk. It's not a perk for statistic, it's a perk for a trait or quirk to the concept that you can choose from a list. Not all of them are supposed to be all amazing and equally empowering or positive.
Some people do apply for negative things to add a quirk to their character. This is simply one of those things you can choose on your own.
It's simply best to forget the ideal of "equal" with perks. They are not meant to a list of varying buffs that are equal to one another.
give me one other that gives you an extra finger in exchange for you're arm? I mean if there was a precedent of small bonus flavor perks with moderate detriments then sure I could accept that, but this is the only one. And no when they said perk they meant perk, else 80% of them would also have some type of penalty. These yes they are in part flavor, but they are meant to be beneficial flavor perks, not penalizing flavor perks of the "yer just better off not taking them" variety.
This one's benefits and disadvantages don't match up very well. This Perk would add flavour if a PC with it was screwed up in the daytime, but clearly outclassed most PCs by some margin in dark areas. You trade being useful all the time for being crippled in the day, but above average at night, and people can notice that. It's "watch out, he's deadly at night", rather than "He's not a wreck right now"
As it is, the idea of Light Sensitivity's a cool drawback to have, but it needs matching with something positive that marks you as clearly adapted to the darkness. Darkvision makes sense, as extra-sensitive eyes would see better in the dark but be overwhelmed by sunlight. The perks that let you trade one thing for another let you customise your character, and tend to give the stronger bonuses in exchange for losing something.
As of v964 Gloomwalker perk now no longer gives any stealth bonus, but gives free Blind Fight feat. This change will not apply retroactively to characters but only new ones that take the perk.