This is a discussion thread for the new policy that Johannes just announced: http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195441#post195441
I, for one, have mixed feelings on the subject, but on the whole I support it. For one, yes the trolling gets pretty heavy, and often there has been this drive to one-up each other to the point where some pretty mean things get said for laughs. And for the most part, 4chan is the irredeemable scum of the internet. So in that regard certainly I'm glad there is awareness of the issue and a push to do something about it.
Now, with that being said, I would ask for a bit more detail about the ban on references and image macros. Based on the announcement, this thread is technically a reference and I should expect some harsh penalties. I guess my question is, what does and does not constitute a breach of that ban? If I use the word rickroll in a conversation, how long will you prevent me from playing an elf on your server?
Also, an open question to the players: how much does this 'upward trend of misconduct' bother you?
For what it's worth, #efugross still exists and we still tolerate faggotry, bullshit, and trolling for the people who enjoy it.
Keep your 4chan memes out of it, though, you're not funny.
Discussion on the subject of the new policy will not be punished.
I find it rather funny that people (supposedly) pretend it's that big a deal. Talk about acting childish, to be so butthurt over text that you could just not look at!
I don't know what anything of it has to do with 4chan though. I also like how the randomly plugged channel is probably who I expect the most 4channish things to come out of.
To me it makes very little sense to stomp of people who are likely mentally ill and need care and attention. Basically it would be better in my eyes to just let them wear themselves out, poop and go to sleep.
Quote from: derflaro;195451I find it rather funny that people (supposedly) pretend it's that big a deal. Talk about acting childish, to be so butthurt over text that you could just not look at!
I don't know what anything of it has to do with 4chan though. I also like how the randomly plugged channel is probably who I expect the most 4channish things to come out of.
Derf about summerized my oppinion on the matter. Inappropriete stuff was always prohibited, banning a meduim because "most" of the stuff that comes out of it is "supposedly" bad is silly.
Quote from: Halfbrood;195452To me it makes very little sense to stomp of people who are likely mentally ill and need care and attention. Basically it would be better in my eyes to just let them wear themselves out, poop and go to sleep.
This seems to be how it was done in times past and how such times worked absolutely fine. If anything, these strange new rules seem to only entice certain folks, 'young glory' for example.
Especially in a community as close knit at this one, imposing iron fisted laws and threatening 'harsh punishments' only encourages, as derflaro said, the 'young glory' style poster, and in itself undermines it's own authority. We are all here for fun, after all.
Well I would not go as far as to say it was an Iron Fisted rule, just a bit over the top. I have not played actively in quite a while so I'm not sure what has really changed in the community to merit this ban.
Quote from: TheImpossibleDream;195457Well I would not go as far as to say it was an Iron Fisted rule, just a bit over the top. I have not played actively in quite a while so I'm not sure what has really changed in the community to merit this ban.
I've been a little more active than yourself over the past month or so, having said that I can't say I've witnessed anything that could be considered terrible.
Yes, well while I can understand there is a line to draw on where certain jokes go, it is outrageous to have one wear a certain face just because some do not seem to like their current one.
I wonder if I would be friends with quite a few of the people I superbly enjoy the company of if they and I all acted the role of zerg drones, even if we would be oh so efficient at harvesting minerals.
It is sort of like some people are giraffes, and the horses are so jealous of their big ass necks, they demand that they shorten them down to size with the rest of them. It is just silly.
I don't know if I'm reading into your analogy correctly, but I think it would be a bit extreme to say that the ban was in place due to a level of jealousy. Though I do agree that it is in danger of making the humor of the community as monotone as a MULE.
Difference to that, Derf, it's easier to get shorter than grow taller. You can cut back on it, but it's far more harder to adjust into that style.
I myself am not used to the behaviour and style of trolling and overbearing jokes that tend to cross the line very often, and for me it's not something I get used to. All simply because it ain't part of my every day life. Yet I once in a while mention about it and I've stood it for years, but it doesn't mean those people should take it up on themselves when they are asked to cut back on it.
I don't think there might have been need to ban some source, but if it cuts it back, even by force, have at it.
As for the first part, no, not really. No one forces you to do one or the other, nor does anyone desire to do such without reason.
As to acceptance of behavior, on the internet, something as easy as not looking at certain text you don't care about, has to be some of the easiest I can think of, regardless of where or how you live. Really if it is that inane and unacceptable it will go away by itself.
Not to mention, there are two sides to a line, and quite a few people are on the other side who are unfortunately not around playing any more because apparently hard for others to not take things too seriously and ignore what they do not have to look at; regardless of how appropriate the opinion of one may consider it, and quite honestly just selfish.
I think derf raises a valid point. How many people just don't feel like they "fit" into the community anymore these days? Many little things become a big thing and drive away certain folk looking for a relaxed and mature attitude as well as some humor now and then.
While I don't really appreciate 4chan's puerile humour, I fail to see how it's productive to outright ban it. Indeed, putting a post like that up seems like it would entice even more trolling.
You hit the point on both sides, Derf. This however is community that those who wish to play will and have to watch if they want to try and take part on anything.
Argument of saying that people don't have to read or watch it, has been just as much a reason to push people away as the ones you wrote about. Things go both ways, and when it's about community and maturity as you said, not reading or watching is often not an option unless you just stick outside totally and simply play the game without taking part on the discussions. Which is actually done by this other side of the line quite a lot, when those on the other side have left game as they felt they were not allowed to share their hearts fill of so said mature talking and humour.
Yeah, and when I read something uninteresting or offensive I don't read it, instead of crying. It works wonders. The IC forums, in game, and serious discussion topics are rarely trolled harshly, and when they are, it's totally understandable to tell off actions which take away from those things; which is basically how it's always been. The fact some people can't grasp that and feel the need to blow anything here out of proportion is rather sad, but good things come to an end eventually I suppose.
what
Not much of a troll myself, but derflaro takes the words outta my mouth.
I honestly think that all the people who enjoy trolling and etc should come hang out in #efugross. It's very simple to join, but it is NOT the channel advertised and linked from our main website, it is NOT the place where newcomers go to get their first OOC impression of the server and ask for help.
I really enjoy a good troll, or just watching a good troll or story or joke or blabla even if it's a little dirty. I don't see why those of us who do can't move it to #efugross, because at the moment the only problem is that a lot of people who should be there aren't. It's not much of an effort from "our" side, but it would hopefully allow #efu to be more formal while we could still have fun.
#efugross is full of pseudo-trolls like "Bonhomie". It's a waste of time.
A place where the only spontaneity in the humor is whether or not it really is humorous is not really worth spending time in. Though this is not a topic about #efugross and who should and should not be in that particular labled container that fits neatly on the shelf.
I was more for perma-bans of the OOC forum being handed rather than making new policies, myself, alas the more administrative side of EFU staff decided to give a warning/policy before banning people who engages in disrespectful jabber.
I still prefer the sneak attack bans.
COME BACK TO EFU MORT!
p.s. i think these kinds of posts are embarrassing, i mean srsly imagine a new guy coming and reading how the community is/has to be policed on irc and that we aren't allowed to copy and paste stuff from the internet on the internet.
Also, why do half the people think trolling = hatred....isn't it like completely not that which is why it is trolling?
p.p.s i hate u all
What derflaro said. If it is offensive / bothersome don't bother with it. That is precisely the reason I do not join IRC in any fashion. It isn't worth the head ache. I play and I forum post... seems to work so far.
Maybe I'll never be an "insider" because of the lack of IRC time, but I am involved with the community to have fun / contribute, not be an "insider" persay.
As they say:
If you don't like whats on TV - Change the Channel!!!
This isn't your "goblin bomber ruining in-character weddings" Johannes.
Yeah, #efugross is basically trash, and not much of interest goes on in there - and that's because it was intended as a replacement for #efu - to offer a popular alternative venue for the trolling and trashtalk and intellectual detritus that usually pollutes #efu. Instead what we got was a bunch of people calling eachother niggers.
I still think the idea is sound though, and encourage people to just come to #efugross to vent about something that bothers you, rather than air your grievances aloud in #efu, where the things you say can bother the players there who only go to the channel to be in contact with DMs.
As for the actual issue with the new policy, I think it's a little bit silly to single out "4chan references" as the problem here, when the entire internet is basically overrun with scum, and 4chan really only represents a minor portion of that issue.
I'll grant "No more image macros" is entirely understandable, and so is handing out punishments for being assholes to other players, out of character.
I certainly wish there were a little more transparency on the issue, because I feel like any discussion we have here is going to miss the point completely - obviously something specific brought this change on, but if the Team feels that it'd be inappropriate to give us even a vague idea of what happened to effect a new ruling, that's their prerogative.
There already is rules in place about posting innapropriate or pornographic content I think banning a website or all references and links is silly.
Personally I feel like banning a website is communism plain and simple ive trolled about EFUA being communist before and its hilarious that Im being proven correct.
I think after giving this issue some more serious thought I must say-
lol
this policy sucks
Quote from: SanTelmo;195534this policy sucks
You make an interesting point and I'm dying to learn more. Do you have a newsletter or...?
Upon second thought, the former couple of posts sum up thoughts admirably. Consider all my other posts to say something to that extent.
Quote from: derflaro;195539Upon second thought, the former couple of posts sum up thoughts admirably. Consider all my other posts to say something to that extent.
I would say we were all trying to articulate that opinion derf.
I think the attitude in EfU is pretty nasty; yes you can ignore parts, but it's becoming increasingly more of the entirety of the server that people who do get butt hurt when you're trying to enjoy a game and OOC trolling starts to blur the line between being an idiot and being a bully.
You can say "just ignore it, it's on the internet" but the reason EfU doesn't allow bots coming on and spamming obscenities is that this is a community and dickery breeds shit-talking, OOC hatred, people leaving EfU and turning the server into a breeding ground for the close-knit original players to just run around trolling the shit out of a good server and slowly bringing it down.
I wouldn't say this policy is needed, but I'd say anything that seperates EfU from all the OOC trolling and douchery that is the Forums / IRC is a good thing.
My god, lol. :(