Why aren't you joining them? What's wrong with the factions?
Apart from the fantastic reception the risen sun guys got when they first started (and possibly the archeological society currently), factions have been pretty slow to fill from what I can see.
Why?
I've heard complaints from players that there aren't enough NPCs around driving things, there's a lack of structure in conflict with too much random FDing and burning shit down, and that characters can often feel pointless or directionless. While I won't dispute that point outright, I will say that factions are there to be joined, and will remedy 90% of those problems.
People were practically clammouring to apply for most factions in Sanctuary, but EfUA factions have not been so popular.
So what's the deal?
Because establishing your own factions requires players to work. Just hanging back and spitting out apps for the cool factions other people have established doesn't really take much creativity or energy - actually going about and establishing your own takes a bit more doing.
I've interest in joining a faction, but was told I -had- to pursue it by meeting the appropriate PC's in game. Which has been practically impossible for me so far. :P
Tbh the factions don't really seem that appealing to me!
You've got CG Anti-pirate pirates, CE pirates, Elven CG Loot hoarders, and a bunch of swindling merchants.
There is not enough mystique or motivation to join them IC, for me. Factions like the watch and spellguard, had a history to them. They were so awesome that you wanted to be a part of them.
Not really feeling that with the new factions!
Quote from: SnottySnitch;93172Because establishing your own factions requires players to work. Just hanging back and spitting out apps for the cool factions other people have established doesn't really take much creativity or energy - actually going about and establishing your own takes a bit more doing.
As far as I can see all of the factions are actually established. The fleet has, well a fleet of ships, the armada has an armada and connections in old port etcetera!
It could be that faction presence currently doesn't seem to have huge consequences on the environment. I really don't know! Nothing put me off.
I have to agree with Snotty, there, especially with the blank slate the EfUA offers. I am enjoying working with other players establishing our own faction.
Also, like Sancturay was the heart of EfU, the Ziggurat is the heart of EfUA. The Watch, Spellguard, Seekers, etc. were all part of this heart, and while there was potential for conflict among them, there was also the chance for cooperative interaction because they were seperate parts of a whole.
Now look at the Stygian Armada and the First Fleet. Obviously conflict was inteded here. But there is zero chance of these two factions seeing eye to eye on anything. That just strikes me as a setup for mindless PvP. Also, these two factions are basically their own seperate entities with absolutely no ties to the heart of the server, the Ziggurat.
On top of this, it almost feels as if the current factions are just re-packagings of things we've already seen on EFU.
The Stygian Armada, as a whole, just gives me the feel of an NPC-heavy Montezzi faction. The fact that it has, so far, acted virtually the same way (except all but marching in open warfare style) doesn't really help it.
The Fleet just seems like surface Seekers on ships, except these guys are just too uninterested in anything landbound to bother opposing the Stygians.
The Malatestas just seem like another one of the greedy, Lawful evil, powerhungry politician clans - of which there were dozens on EFU. Illario Dentra? Or Pyotr Ignatiev? Anyways, it just seems like a surface revamp/meld of the Spellguard, with less Magic, and the Archibalds.
It just seems like... the same old in new packages. Except with less mystery and backstory. Sorry to say, but that's just the impression I get. I'd rather try to make my own faction, or help other players in the building of theirs, than have Tetrarch Burkden give me that surface version of a Spellguard Commander Simms rant. I think that goes for many of the older players - now that we have the chance, we'd rather hang back and help other players, or do other things involving players, than get tied into DM factions which seem a bit too similar for fun.
Quote from: Cruzel;93180Tbh the factions don't really seem that appealing to me!
You've got CG Anti-pirate pirates, CE pirates, Elven CG Loot hoarders, and a bunch of swindling merchants.
There is not enough mystique or motivation to join them IC, for me. Factions like the watch and spellguard, had a history to them. They were so awesome that you wanted to be a part of them.
Not really feeling that with the new factions!
This has hit a nerve with me.
Are you suggesting that the DMs responsible for these factions are only capable of making one sided, one dimensional factions and NPCs?
I dedicated a good month to working out the deep, rich history behind the Malatesta Household, and how this history would affect the goings on in game in mysterious way as burried family secrets slowly came to surface.
I would be very offended that you are willing to sweep aside all that work I and my fellow DMs have put into fleshing out our factions and making them as "real" as possible with a brash and thoughtless comment that doesn't in any way reflect the reality of the quality of the material being produced for this game if I didn't find it so damned laughable.
No more comments like these please. My frustration is
specifically because I've put
so much work into a faction that isn't being filled up or enjoyed by a lot of people. If you find our factions shallow, it's you that hasn't worked hard enough, or dug deep enough.
It's not that it's not rich, or not thought through or too one-sided. It's just that now we have the chance of doing our own stuff, with our own people, and would rather do that, than spend a lot of time on applications and appeasing various NPCs with which we only have fleeting relations, and on the whole seem to pursue agendas very similar to what we've seen before.
Since a lot of people are doing the above, the lazy bunch who just want factions handed to them on a platter are more likely to get involved in player factions than DM factions, or not to get involved in factions at all - since player factions require more work, and are more visible than the DM ones.
Personally, I think the player factions are the great thing about EFU:A. I don't feel like I'm tied to having to cope with various lvl 15 NPCs, or other "static" influences. It makes for a more dynamic and more diverse environment. This is great, imho.
QuoteAre you suggesting that the DMs responsible for these factions are only capable of making one sided, one dimensional factions and NPCs?
Not at all. I'm saying that these factions just don't have the Oomph the old ones did From an outsider view. There is nothing really there for the average player to learn more about their history, or to really delve.
Some minor quests to involve the average player even slightly and show them more about the faction will almost certainly get them motivated.The factions right now are basically entirely PC represented. This means a lot of people are missing out due to timezones, and don't really have a chance to learn more about the factions, and therefore no real reason to want to join them.
Again, Snotty, your reducing of my faction down to nothing more than Illario Dentra and Pytor Igantiev copies finds me in a state of absolute despair.
It's shit like that which makes me wonder why I bother.
You left out the Stewards of the Ark faction, which is extremely awesome I must say. It is old and has ties in the Underdark as well as on the surface, before and present. I agree with Lado, join factions!!! You say they are dull or boring. Have you been it it? You know alot fo times they keep faction things... SECRET. You may have no freaking idea what they are about or even what they are REALLY doing. If you think they are doing a bad job as PCs in moving the faction forward, then, JOIN it and move it the way you want to. PCs have alot of power to influence the game world and faction.
The DMs put alot fo work into faction. They are there for a reason. The most fun I've had on EFU was in DM made factions, minus one but really it's worth the effort to apply.
I think you missed the point. :/ But hey, sorry if I insulted you - was just speaking my mind.
Imho, it creates a rather vicious cycle, all the secrecy. A faction is awesome. But the only way to know that it's awesome is to be in it. The only rason to join a faction is if it's awesome - but you don't know if it's awesome unless you're already in there. Catch 22.
What it all boils down to, is that the PC factions of EFU:A are more dynamic, more flexible, much more involved in everything and everywhere, and has a much greater diversity of great characters to interact with. That doesn't make DM factions, or the Malatestas bad, it just makes PC factions better.
Again, just my two cents - but hey, if you weren't interested in my two cents, why bother with posting the thread?
Well! Similarly to how the Stewards, and the others have an history to them.
These factions do too and I'd rather have them be filled with high-quality characters than quantity. It's just my preference. I'm really not offended by people choosing not to join them or not. Meaning that even if people WANT to join them, and the factions dont seem to have a lot of people in them, we arent going to lower our standards (Well, I'm not). They have lots to offer, yes, most of it may have not been communicated well enough, yet.
And I'm not convinced that it is because factions in EfU had an 'history' to them. Hells, these factions have a very distinct history to which tends to be known only by faction-members or people that make an effort to learn it.
They are meant to be a tool for your entertainment in the end. Take advantage of that or not. Factions in EfU were empty at times and it wasn't that much of an issue, it happens that some players tend to have a more pro-active server-healthy agenda than most, and these players tended to make an effort to be in the factions and make them shine.
I'm more willing to accept that it is because we didn't have time to promote or introduce the intricacies and were more dependent upon players to build such intricacies which led to this Sanctuarian-loophole that these factions have been introduced to oppose each-others in direct PvP (which is far from true!).
But it isn't due to anyone's fault, just the dichotomous kind of thinking that is inherent to humans. If we introduce a faction who'se goals aren't clear and have a more enigmatic agenda and then we introduce a faction who'se goals are precise and seem to be a 'fill_in_the_blanks' in order to oppose the faction above it would lead to this misinterpretation.
Besides, although, we are opened -- I would still refer to the server as a beta-stage as there are tons of things we wish to implement and work on but are being delayed upon for various RL constraints -- Tonight being part of it.
First of all the application process is not that hard. People make it out to be some impossible feat of engineering. Really if your application makes sense it is likey to be approved, especially for a DM faction. If you have doubts you can also ask a DM to aid you with information you may need or just general help with the application.
The reason for joining a faction is not because it is 'awesome' and you want in on that. You join because it makes sense for your PC or you want to do things besides questing and slaying said orc for the 90th time. Sure you have to answer to NPCs but that is the fun part!! The NPCs are really really fun and add flavore. Intryzz was an NPC and most would say he was kick ass. That goes for many of the old ones too and ones you probably never saw in hidden or more secret factions.
If you don't want to be in a sweet fun DM faction that is fine but really they probably are more than you all think. The server is relativly new and they are building to things, in a little bit of time you will all see no doubt. Then you will be going "MAN I WISH I HAD JOINED" when it's full of people and you can't now.
I mean I apped for the armada. But I got denied. What am I supposed to do, just keep on apping forever untill I get in. I moved on with something else.
It's not our fault if your application fails.
Your complaining about why people wont join your factions. Im telling you why I havent for instance, and im sure alot of people failed apps. So there is part of the awnser to your question.
So far- I have made Four APplications.
One of which I had to re-apply about 5 times.
Join Factions people, awesome is in the making.
If you really want something approved you can get it approved with work. If it gets rejected you can get feedback as to why. If you give up on something you ~really~ want to play you may as well not ever try to app for anything fun since it'll only turn out the same way.
Accepting feed back and turning around a rejected app is a learning experience that will open a whole new world of interesting concepts to you for now and forever more!
Maybe it's because we know very little about said factions. The History and goals of the EFU factions were documented and well known, the info on factions ehre are...well, not so readily available.
We know this. That, however, wasn't what the thread was about. The thread was about "Why aren't people joining DM factions?". Well, there it is. We know that they are awesome. We know that it's supposed to be easy to join them. Yet we choose not to. Because, quite honestly, there's just as good fun to be had outside of them, right now, without having to go through applications and NPC-controlled factions. It's a much more interesting world when the control is in the hands of the PCs - and personally, I rather like it. The only way to change this is to restrict player influence - and quite honestly, it would feel rather silly to restrict or fix a system which works well, just so that people will be under NPC purview and in DM factions again.
Just trying to answer the question. Not trying to insult anyone, or degrade someone's efforts. Just sayin', is all.
I dunno about you guys, but as soon as my current character is gone I'm gonna check out one of these DM factions.
That being said, I think Laddy is a little premature. I can think of 3 Fleet characters, 1 Armada character with several who have tried for it, at least 1 Flowery Elf character, and tons of Malatestas. Actually, I think that for new factions there's way more people than I expected.
Not only that, but you've excluded one DM faction with 22 active characters. Now I'm not saying that we -win- because we have more people or anything, but...
These factions are not, I repeat, NOT these ridiculous copy/paste affairs that you compare them to. Each faction introduced all have their own unique history, and maybe, just maybe if you tried to find some of that out, you would be rewarded! I'm not going out of my way to troll the people that have criticised the factions, but I fail to see were any of it comes from! Having worked towards joining a faction, successfully doing so, meeting the npc's and learning the history has been immensely rewarding. You just need to keep at it! The dms here have put an enormous ammount of work and time into these factions, and if you show them that you've put some thought and depth into your own character, it will be that much more rewarding on both ends. No, I'm not saying you have to slave away at efu to enjoy a faction, I'm only saying that you shouldn't expect to be blown away in awe of these factions while making no effort to find out what they are truly about. As for the history complaint, these factions not only already HAVE long and intresting histories, but you as a new player on a fresh server have the unique opportunity to truly shape them, if you really want to do so. I guess that's the end of my rant.
You can always ask others for help. Those within the faction- DMs- or those that seem good as to why the character may not be a good fit or may not be deserving of the many perks associated with a faction.
I mean, usually, those who have been successful at something tend to like sharing their wisdom (usually).
There is always a good reason why the application is denied. If you dont make efforts to improve or simply learn what was the problem with the current app., well.... It's too bad I suppose!
Lado,
I just sent a PM to Deputy Cool about this very thing, but specifically concerning the Fleet of the First Bolt.
Some of the reasons why the factions in EfU were so popular in my opinion:
1. Clearly visible, central headquarters close to the main areas of the server. PCs could hang out there, and they usually had permanent storage.
2. Clear goals or missions, with evidence of this obvious on the server.
What's the unique mission of the Malatestas? The original Milita? The Armada? Other than power, gold and domination? If they aren't obvious and up front with their goals, then they should be actively recruiting members via NPCs and PCs I think.
3. There were faction-specific scripted quests that aligned with plausible missions of the faction. Seekers - gobbo fort. Society - hook horrors - Spellguard - stinky sewers. And so on. It was fun to RP that you were a part of the action, and PC faction members would "hire" people to do something for "their" faction.
4. Clearly recognizable uniforms and/or faction loot. Face it, having cool gear is fun. Even veteran, RP-first players love getting cool stuff.
5. Prominent NPCs that help to play a role in server plots - each with their own goals and machinations. I don't know who the prominent Faction NPCs are in the current setting other than Fassaud and First Mate Lyrin. They need to kick start the faction a bit more. Hiring people. Sending people on quest for just about anything. Giving new members a mission or way to serve the faction.
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How about having DM possessed NPCs actively recruiting and RPing (some) of the process? Maybe even going on adventures and pwning shit, impressing recruits and getting them to sign aboard?
I think if some of these things are addressed you might see an increase in faction membership.
Just some thoughts, and hope they are constructive. Love the setting so far, tabula rosa and all that.
Gwydion
You're taking this too personally. We know the factions are awesome but, I repeat - Player factions are right now just as, or even more, awesome, in my mind. They are public. They do not require apps. They have little feelers and tendrils everywhere, and we don't have to go through NPCs do to or pursue our chars' goals. It's all pure 100% human-to-human interaction, with lots of plots and fun stuff popping up organically - instead of orchestrated.
DM factions are great. But for better or for worse, they are background things right now. They don't run the show. On old EFU, the DM factions ran everything. You couldn't walk across an area without stumbling across Spellguard or Watch or Seekers vying for power.
I personally like the way things are now. Without a revert to the massive DM factions of old EFU with great central places and spider-like webs of control, I think you'll have to accept that DM factions have to step back a bit in terms of influence and popularity over player factions.
And yes, Player factions were meant to have a very central role in EfU:A, hence why the DM factions didnt have a really SECURE grasp over the land and were meant to be negociated as well. We didn't want to lose them as we feel DM factions are important element of the game-world, but that is certainly true that we didn't want player to arrive in a world where all the big players are already in place...
Now, there has been some problem by giving too much liberty and not enough structure and we have long been in the process of thinking how to address that to strike a perfect balance that will seem good and fun for most, if not all, players.
Well, you probably know all that better than I do, but to this humble player it seems better to just leave the PCs in control and see where they take things, than to create a balance just for the purpose of preservation and stability. If you don't mind me saying so, a lot of the reason for the stagnation of old EFU was due to the extreme balance. Anything that shifted it was fiercely put to a half, and that didn't make for much dynamic factions, or pure awesomeness (although there obviously were awesome chars). To reinforce the point, allow me to direct your attention to the Rebellion, which was probably the least "stable" period on the server, but still one of the most fun to play in. And, at that, one where it fealt as if we had a great impact on the server as players, even though it was much (admittedly) railroaded. It made for awesomeness on an entirely different scale than old, stable, EFU.
It should be noted that the most awesome player faction, the Montezzis, arose in an area where there were very little DM factions or DM faction control. I personally think that was a very good thing. It made for much more fun, player-driven and flexible roleplay than had a DM gone in and made it too "structured".
But what the hell do I know? I'm just a player.
Exactly. Off you go, peon.
Mort has already said it, but yes. When EFUA was conceived within the womb that was the collective DM team's brain, we had decided collectively that we didn't want any factions like the Spellguard. We did not want to see any factions like the Watch with 70 soldiers in NPC form that could keep that peace and had a stranglehold over who did what to whom. Of course, these sort of things are up to you guys, as you have seen, EFUA is the ultimate sandbox. Whether you live in absolute chaos and anarchy or within the confines of a well defined government is up to the players.
Moving on to the next bit of this discussion, which is more on topic, I lament that certain situations in the always dreaded real life have come into play and have kept me away from a faction I adore and enjoy running quests for. I will be the first to admit the faction (Forgotten Flower) I spent a great deal of time on isn't as ideal as it could be, and that it would flourish a great deal more if I was around to make that happen.
With regards to the past, it seems we all suffer from a fondness for it. Few probably recall the state of EFU factions in their infancy, though I can more or less describe it here. Ganden the super Tigereye spent his time more or less beating up Watchmen. Wesh Shields the evil watchman arrested people and tried to butcher them in jail. Elves wearing masks and matching uniforms of black pretended not to be drow by taking on atrociously obvious human names. Benito Delgado bumbled about trying to arrest citizens for casting illegally. Things were not defined, because the players had not given the factions the richest and most interesting history that can evolve.
Lastly, I will just say, that regardless of whether or not people do decide to join DM factions, or not, a great deal of fun can be had by instantly obtaining a large group of allies to work with against another group of enemies when a faction is joined. Interfaction conflict is as brilliant as anyone can ever write about, as is lobbying for NPC affection over a peer. The DM factions give opportunities for both of these things, and regardless of how anyone may feel about the creative properties and the complexity of any story or history any faction has on EFUA, I can assure you that these basic principles that are the foundation of any good story will always be there.
lol
I don't join npc factions as a general rule.
Not that i don't find them appealing, i don't like being reliant on NPC bosses.
Maybe i'm wrong with the EfU module, because it certainly is a lively one.
From another point of view, i must say i don't find the current factions clear in their mainline-public goals. The Watch was a city guard faction (plus more). Spellguard was a mage's guild (plus more). Seekers sought the surface. Montezzis were despots. The loons were thugs. Etc.
Those clear mainlines are things players and characters can relate to. But if you ask me what the Fleet is about, or the Malatesta, or others, i just can't say. Now i read that some apps are being rejected, and it kinda fits since i guess we don't know what to app for, what you are looking for to be approved.
Other factions are so secretive that some folks i chat with lose patience to be sought out IC.
Now i certainly am NOT saying the current factions have no interest, or have no depth in them. That would indeed be insulting and unfair, since i don't even know the factions.
They seem just ... cloudy? from a player perspective.
Maybe one day we will even see NPC’s starting the correspondence letter threads asking to meet with PC’s they heard about and may want in their group. Now wouldn’t that be a switch. Not to mention this would give the players an ego boost that they were asked instead of having to beg on their hands an knees and finally get accepted after their fifth app. Honestly, admit it, certain types of groups like a real Stygian would say “SPY!†Kill him!†They wouldn’t trust anybody ‘trying’ to get in. They would only accept those they thought they could trust and tested or checked out with or without that PC’s knowledge.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy playing here and all that but most of my PC’s are either too smart, to stupid, to sneaky or just don’t have the alignment or deity to be begging for acceptance.
I met very few faction PCs.
All I met were incredible.
This just for people who are on the fence about applying for one!
I joined the Seekers with a character that was going no where, and ended up have one of the greatest times ever and one of the funniest death endings (I can't remember the DM that pulled this unusual tricks out of their bag, but kudos again).
I would encourage people to join factions. My last character tried to get his followers to join as many factions as possible so he could have his pulse on all of Sanctuary with an unlimited fountain of information flowing to him. He was reasonably successful at infiltrating the Montezzi's, Spellguard, the Crone, the lingering Ubel rebels, the Shadow tribe, and maybe the Watch, maybe.
I think its extremely important for people to be involved in factions, especially if you are playing an evil character (that isn't hell bent on supreme overlord dominance, usually results in overkill PvP). If your willing to got the distance and sit on a character and play puppeteer, then hell yeah!! My hats off to any one player that can do that without making a shit load of enemies and being involved in tons of PvP.
Players playing good characters its even more important to be apart of factions. How else is are they going to fight evil, if your not inside your outside, and the walls you have to go through or climb are usually a pain in the arse. Get in the faction and weed out the evil, the quickest process is just PvPing the basterd and being done with it (Digressing, over the week I saw one of the most, for lack of a better word, shittest PvP's I've ever seen, I've been apart of a lot of PvP. I was very much appalled at the roleplay, and the action itself but whatever.), and having a nemesis isn't that bad of a thing. Most evil can't live without a good guy or woman.
I want to join a faction, I just don't know which one. They all look like fun, but I'm having a hard time creating a character for one of them.
Malatesta looks great because I could build a theives guild within the group and branch from there.
First Bolt looks fun, a air genasia would be a blast to play there.
The Armada needs something crazy, like a half-dragon fighter or something of that nature. Charismatic and dangerous, the leader they've been hiding.
The Druids need a were-something in their group, I don't know.
The elves need a freaking peace keeper and civilized leader, someone with the brass bells to knock their own people and put the fear back into them.
People app up, subfaction or mini factions can be created within factions, it could be a goal. Laters!!
I think there is a rush to judgement, give it time and people will come to DM factions.
I think people will join in due time, but perhps are still trying to learn the server before committing to a faction. Perhaps they want to know "everything" so they can be better at what they end up doing.
Also I think that we got the impression from the beginning that we should be out there creating our own factions so people are trying to see what they can do with a grassroots org. before exploring another's idea whether it be PC or DM.
I happened to be in a PC faction upon creation and it is great being in the Ithilcuea. I spent two years in EFU either as an Archibald or Spellguard Associate. Factions are fun indeed.
I have written a few apps up but never sent them in as things changed by the time my character was IG ready. When my character dies I will most likely choose an existing faction. Why, because I do feel that there is enough information around that tells me what they are about, and what kind of group they are, and they all look good.
I say this as a newcomer to EFU:A who only played in the last few days of EFU.
I think Letsplayforfun hit the nail on the head. The goals of the NPC factions are totally opaque to me. The Watch, Spellguard, etc. were - as far as I could tell from my short time there - integral organs of Sanctuary, that served defined purposes in the community. The Armada and Fleet specifically seem almost incidental to the Ziggurat, like they just happen to be here but their main business is elsewhere.
Now, they may have deep concerns with the Ziggurat and plans of their own - now that I've read this thread, I'm sure they do - but none of it is evident in the least. My current character has had contact and even done a service for the Armada and the extent of her knowledge of their goals is "they want money." As for the Fleet, it just doesn't seem very congruous to me that PC "Crewmen" spend all their time walking around Ymph, as if membership as a crewman on a ship is a mere formality. All I can think of is "extended shore leave."
I'm not saying a lot of thought and effort didn't go into their design; I'm sure it did. It's just that little of it is evident at this point, even for characters that have had some PC and DM interaction with them. It doesn't really inspire me to create characters for factions that, as far as I can tell, have little relevance to the community and few observable goals besides making money.
In time, I'm sure the goals of these factions will become more well known and their ties to the community proper will be stronger. Until then, however, I feel I'd rather play characters that are involved with the development of "Nebedzzos" than members of factions that seem almost totally peripheral to it.
Factions that are there now, are for the setting. They may seem normal human folks, mercenaries or such without much of stuff you would think of interesting.
Here is the thing.
Are you playing a role in the setting? If so, wouldn't you think why, where and how those factions came into knowing about the people there. Why are they there, along poor ruins which clearly only hold refugees that have no valuables. Why?
Another thing is, if you're a random guy ending up there, isn't there a good chance to get the hell back home? Or maybe you are the guy that simply was looking for riches and fame, well isn't a known mercenary group a good way to get started?
I mean, it's not everything what you see. There's so much more than a punch of dudes in different coloured armors, standing about boats.
As for me, hell, I'd happily take a paying job in a mercenary group as a half naked refugee. Perhaps I get my chance to have higher authority in the setting of these random-portal-popping-maniacs. I also agree, that you can't go there to say it doesn't seem like anything special. C'mon, do be honest and tell me that you for sure knew what the heck was behind spellguards or watch when efu started. They were guards that had gathered to defend a refugee stronghold. Spellguards were like war wizards. Awesome, spell using officers.
None of you had much more idea of what they were before matters started to develop and open up. I dare to say this all. I dare to think that people have come lazy and expect awesomness from the first step.
Why people do or do not join DM factions!?
Perhaps I am the worst player to say that, because usually I am not able to play and I almost can not remember the last time, also my timezone makes things difficult not to mention my fantastic english, but I will give a try anyway.
IMHO time right is an important key Lado. The server, we are experiencing a big change, although many of you like to say that nothing has really changed...which is kind awkward.
In the past I have thought and abandoned my willing to be part of a DM faction many times. Do not understand me wrong, they were and I believe the new ones are also, awesome.The thing is for certain new players as I "was", having trouble to find time to play and to adapt to server, turned out easier to let things flow and twice I ended in a player faction like the Sentinels. So let the characters "live" to find their goal.
Thanks to the DM factions my chars many times got in the middle of plots and events that I still do not have a freaking idea what was, and guess what that was fine to me. It was entertaining and made me feel part of the whole story, also I got some friends in the process.
Of course there were less clouds as someone said over the factions goals, but in the other hand wake up "peons", they are giving you a great opportunity in my point of view to craft and throw light into that so people should for sure join DM factions, and again give people time to understand that and to choose which one. And soon we will have to call attention to the positive and negative side of being in more than one faction DM or PC.
Last days as some of the DM crew know I have sent PMs because I do want to come back, even with a wife work and a ps3, and to me DM factions could put me right on track playing as I imagine that they are indeed the center of most plots, so I would have more quality time playing.
Sorry ... think I said too much =) hope it added some value to the topic.
Just to put in my two cents:
I join factions on the basis of the in-character decisions and concerns of my current main character. That is my only criteria for joining a faction. I don't care who runs it, whether it's DM or PC based, or whether or not we get loot. If it doesn't have a rich history, I am going to do my best to give it one.
I've had some difficulties with factions in the past based on my misconceptions about how they work, and I can understand why some people would get frustrated with one type or the other. However, the best policy still seems to be to join on the basis of IC decisions, or on the basis of concept compatibility in the case of an unmade character. That practice always seems to yield the best and most rewarding results for all parties involved.
It seems to me that, with the exception of the Maletestas, the quote/unquote "DM/NPC Factions" that I have seen exist are 'outside' of the Zig. Certainly they are related and certainly they have a vested interest in the goings on in the Zig and will want to influence them as much as possible.
However, I think that one of the very intriguing things about EfU:A is that it IS a clean slate and the players have a very real chance to really do their own things. I think what a lot of these guys are trying to say is that you have created for them a real excitement to see what THEY can come up with and what THEY can create. How can they make something lasting that will really rock the history of EfU:A in te years to come.
To say "I became the Stygian Armada's leader's right hand man" is awesome sauce.
But how much more appealing might it be to say, "I founded that faction two years ago" of a faction that is thriving and really making waves on the server?
People really have that chance. And while it's like the lottery and only one or two people will have been able to make that lasting impact when the dust settles, the chance for that exists NOW. Almost equally for everybody.
That is a very exciting thing, I think. In the end it's not because the DM/NPC factions are boring, one dimensional, recycled... they are none of those things and I don't think anyone meant to put so harsh a judgment on them. But right now, players want to take the opportunity that the DMs have given them to make their own mark on the server.
Snotty wants to make his own band of Merry Men out in the woods. With fair DM support and player interest, he could very well start a full on town out in the woods with its own government (likely dictator for life, Snotty's PC :) ) that eventually the people who live on the Zig have to take seriously and create diplomatic ties to. And how cool would that be to be the player who arranged that or one of the original players who started it?
It isn't too hard to see the appeal that trying to set up a viable and successful player faction at this stage of the game has for many people. As some of these pull ahead and others begin to see their own ideas fizzle out, interest in joining an established faction (NPC or player) will begin to rise and that's what will start happening, I think.
DMs don't give up hope and despair. At least you know your faction is gonna make it through the dry spell. The lottery is not so nice to the others. :)
There's a lot of posts in this thread (Hating on NPCs etc) that make me think people didn't actually read the big announcement telling you exactly what my DM faction was about.
I did explicitly say that PCs will shape and mould it and eventually take it over and call the shots for the entire faction themselves. It's a total blurring of the PC/NPC faction line.
Now I'm confident the same could happen in any other faction, given the right conditions (Look at Barrister Fawkes becoming sheriff of the watch). But I can assure you it WILL happen in my faction, as a design feature.
If this government thing works out, Galleous Albedos will become like Fred Bresley for this server. That's really about as awesome as it gets.
1) Factions aren't really making an effort to recruit or make themselves known.
2) Most the factions are incredibly boring from a player angle. What I know about them as a player, makes them dull. I'm sure they're more interesting when you're in the know, but I'm not.
Stygian Armada (mercenary sailors...maybe slavers. Dull. No known goal.)
Fleet (Seekers as sailors. No slavers to fight. No way to seek. Dull.)
Malatesta (Sembian castaways. No known or stated goals. Dull.)
Stewards of the Ark *I do know more, but here's what players know that I talk to.* (Druids. No known goal, maybe protect jungle cats? Dull.)
Archaeological Society (Maybe the most active faction due to the lack of an application. We dig up dead stuff. I can't see that being fascinating for many though. Overall, we probably seem dull too.)
Perhaps it could just be an issue of timing. EfU was announced before hand with a list of factions that people had experience with from other servers. The Watch had mysteries but its basic function was fairly clear. The Spellguard was more mysteries and did have low points as people did not decide to play them. The same with the Seekers and the like. However, as the server developed and people saw the awsome of these factions they wanted to join, or so it seemed to me. The awsome part about EfU:A is the openeness of it, this is also a bit of a stumbling block righ here at first. It may take a bit of time for people to get settled in and realize, holy shit these factions are awsome and this what they are about (publically at least). I got really lucky in that I was playing a scholarly type who just happened to fit in with the Society. Just my two cents.
- A.New.Begining
Disclaimer, I haven't read this thread in depth. I sped-read it, and here's my commentary from what I obtained.
First of all, nobody should take it personally whether anyone does or does not join their DM or Player faction. A problem I've noted in EFU and in EFUA is that every player wants to be a leader. That's great! Sort of. We get too many faction leaders, and not enough faction followers.
Letsplayforfun noted that he doesn't want to be controlled by an NPC boss. When I first joined EFU many years ago, my first character was a "Lone Wolf." He was boring until I got him involved with factions. By working with the Spellguard, Tigereye, and Watch simultaneously, his story became that much more rich. Even though he was involved with these factions, I found that he had extraordinary freedom. He was not tied by his NPC boss, but could instead promote his own agenda within the organization. So, even if you're not in the faction, get involved with it in some fashion.
Factions are the movers and shakers of this server. Some factions are moreso than others. For instance, some player factions in EFU didn't accomplish anything, while other player factions changed the entire gameworld. If you want to make an impact on the server, I guarantee you a DM will not pay attention to an individual, but a group.
The application process has been noted as daunting to some. We have one DM faction that requires no application (The Archaeological Society). Thus, if you've never been in a DM faction before, I do encourage you to look at that. It's certainly a newbie-friendly faction that appeals to even our most seasoned of players. My hope is that involvement in such a faction will give you a simple taste of what being a member of a faction in EFUA is like.
Also, applications are not that difficult. If you can answer how that application perk will enhance your roleplay, you will more likely than not have an approved application.
Prior to his leave, Musachi was a DM at EFU, and he asked me what faction I was going to join before EFU started up. My response was "None, they don't look too great for me." The way he put it was something along the lines of, "EFU will be boring for you, then. Think of it like your university. EFU factions are like the clubs and organizations of your university. In order to be a member of a community and make an impact on your school, you must be a member of one of these." For some reason, that analogy has made a significant impact on how I think of factions in EFU, and I'm hoping someone here might get a better idea of what they're about as well.
So, in conclusion, please involve yourself in a player or DM faction. It will make your EFUA experience that much more rich for yourself and for the DMs. You will be surprised at the results.
Quote from: Sternhund;93264"EFU will be boring for you, then. Think of it like your university. EFU factions are like the clubs and organizations of your university. In order to be a member of a community and make an impact on your school, you must be a member of one of these."
This is a really great analogy.
Well to add my two cents to the pot in regards to factions. First I would like to say I'm not trying to put anyone down or criticise anyone I'm just saying what I have observed. The thing with these factions is if there is not a big NPC Part advertising them then my character makes judgement based on what the Pc's of that group do. Unfortunately from my interactions with a lot of the Pc's as far as Nikki is Ic concerned there all pretty much the same. Ooc I know the factions are different but I'm just not getting that feeling in game.
But like a University, if the clubs and organizations don't appeal to you, you make your own. For whatever reason, people aren't as interested in the existing (DM) ones. The possible reasons for this have already been discussed. This may well change, but for now I think it's interesting to see what survives and what fails among all the new group initiatives started by players.
Edit: I'd be more interested in seeing DMs support and "adopt" PC-started factions that gain followers and look promising. Such factions are more likely to be integral to the culture and function of the Ziggurat, since they got their start there, and aren't just overseas extensions of foreign groups and networks.
One issue, maybe worth raising elsewhere is that NPCs are necessary for DMs to tell stories. DM factions should have NPCs, cool PC factions should *GAIN* NPC supporters.
Fawkes in charge of a watch composed of only PCs would have been ridiculous. I've tried to run player factions, they typically fall apart because of a lack of DM attention or support which propels the faction toward a goal.
I think the model EfU:A could aim for is DM factions such as the Toboerski and PC factions such as the Toboerski.
Essentially, the faction had as a bonus:
1) Goals that were very direct. Destroy Chosen, take over Lower Sanctuary.
2) NPC aid. An elder Toboerski and his henchmen who supplied support to the faction when it was seriously requested
3) PC control. NPCs did stuff in the background but left all the daily stuff to a PC who was more or less in charge as long as he kept to the faction's goal.
4) Loot. Not free loot, but loot that could be purchased. This meant that there was not need for application to the faction (powerful gear wasn't free, you purchased it).
DM and PC factions should both aim for that. A good and solid mixture of perks, prestige, power--but without anything that unbalances things too much.
PCs should run the militia in game, but they should also have NPCs in the militia to provide support. They should have some NPCs to offer their support--honestly--the only offer I saw so far came from the Stygians rather than a *single* NPC in the city. It was so player driven, that interest and activity has been extremely low in what is typically a very attractive faction for people to join.
Finally, if people aren't joining DM factions--look at what PC factions they're joining and provide DM support to those. Assuming, that faction is trying to make the awesome happen.
I think Oroborous is hitting on some fundamental points in his last two posts.
lol wow you guys make some inane points
I am sincerely confused as to how people find the simplicity of getting an application accepted. Even I once wrote a couple paragraphs of nonsense, bothered a bunch of DMs on occasion, and they let me be an idiot giant, because I had a goal. I'm sure everyone playing here except DangerousDan possesses enough creativity to create an original/interesting goal with some effort, then write a couple paragraphs about it. It's not difficult to write an elementary essay on something you should be enjoying, aka your character and his/her goals, and in return recieving the means to more easily achieve such goals, and buddies backing you up in said goals. It is like playing a game where you have only DangerousDan on your team and a dumpster as a weapon, then once you make a successful app, you get like Krunto and a dinosaur on your team and a rocket launcher instead.
As far as being unable to find players involved in the faction to interact with you is involved, I see how it can be helpful, but definitely not a necessity. I'm sure that at one point none of these factions had any player characters, and have an opportunity to grow, and as a member you probably will have a significant piece as to molding it's future and all that. If anything, it just seems that the faction could use more presence in your time zone, and it'd probably be easier to get approved. Even then, I created a fat black guy in Noble's Tunic running away from a cobra and managed to find like three PC faction members of different factions without trying.
As far as all the complaints about inner-faction history/interactions being a bore or non-existent seem incredibly unfounded, considering most (if not all) who complained did not even attempt to find anything out yet. You'd think with the posts of old EFU factions, or what was revealed upon the ending of EFU, that the same DMs who made the present factions probably realized what was good and bad then, and attempted to make the current ones better. Basically, from what I've seen, people are saying "I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE FACTION, SO IT MUST BE BLAND EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T REALLY PUT ANY EFFORT INTO FIGURING ANYTHING OUT."
i could rant on in grammar but i think that's enough and i'm probably just repeating other posts i didn't read
tldr; apps are easy, better to be in groups, don't judge book by cover etc.
Factions suck
ANARCHY~
Actually yeah, I'm beginning to see where the concerns are coming from. This whole NPC parade on top of the Ziggurat is just a little ridiculous.
I haven't applied because none of the current factions, or the current PCs in them, have really captured my interest. For me to want to have fun with a character in a faction, I need to enjoy the idea surrounding the faction, and for some reason I just haven't gotten there yet.
I do not think this is in any way a lack of effort on the part of the DMs involved in said factions, or on the players that are currently in them, it's just that I personally don't have an interest in the agendas that I perceive the factions as pushing forward. When I get to that point I will jump right in. For some reason I'm just not being "grabbed" so to speak.
Edited to add:
BTW, I also do think Oro made some very valid points. From the player angle that I have had in game the factions just don't have that "bite" that intruiges me to find out more. I don't think this at all is a knock on the DM time and effort. No one can honestly knock that in any way right now.
For the record, I agree that DMs should adopt some of the most successful player factions with NPC + Loot support. I've done so in the past with EFU, and if I ever get time, I hope to do so again in EFUA. And it is my hope that other DMs pick up on this. I know some others have, but it's always great to see more of it.
Just to throw this out there:
I personally have enjoyed my faction chars far more than my non-faction ones, whether they were a leader or a follower. I've only been playing on the new server for a few days, with a char I made to test the waters a bit. In those few days I have already decided on a faction and a concept to pursue based solely on what I've seen IG and on the forums. In fact, I will be rolling him up later tonight.
My point is that I saw plenty of faction "evidence", and based on that I can't wait to dive in. I really don't see a problem. Of course, I'm just a Pup.
QuoteBasically, from what I've seen, people are saying "I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE FACTION, SO IT MUST BE BLAND EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T REALLY PUT ANY EFFORT INTO FIGURING ANYTHING OUT."
This doesn't really work if you are approaching a faction from an IC perspective. Some people may think "I want to try this faction out" and make a character in order to get in that faction, and for them your advice makes sense - don't judge a book by its cover.
But if your approach is to start with a character and join a faction based on the character's IC perception of the factions, your advice isn't helpful. If the factions are super-mysterious and have awesome backstories and all that but don't communicate at least some of that
in game to prospective new members, it's hard for me to come up with an IC reason as to why my character would be interested.
I 'm not saying either way is wrong or right or whatever, it's just that if the current DM factions are having trouble getting traction with players, it may be because of a lack of interest OOC (i.e. what TheBeggar just posted) or a lack of information IC, depending on how people approach joining a faction.
I believe the DM factions are quite fine as they are and that there is much more to them than most of the players think, but as for myself, I find none of them, except maybe the Forgotten Flower to be fitting for the kind of character I would play and create, so I will likely stick to PC factions, try the current ones out there or attempt to form my own.
Quote from: Xorisai;93301But if your approach is to start with a character and join a faction based on the character's IC perception of the factions, your advice isn't helpful. If the factions are super-mysterious and have awesome backstories and all that but don't communicate at least some of that in game to prospective new members, it's hard for me to come up with an IC reason as to why my character would be interested.
Upon making a random character, I entered the Kingsman, then there was a Fleet of the First Bolt whatever who told me the basics of the faction and such. That seems like enough IC to me, and I'm assuming the other factions have something similar, granted I have not explored enough to locate this. I thought it sort of went without saying that if a big faction with whoever leader with whatever code got there in some fashion, at the least most reasonably intelligent characters would be able to interpet that and would have at least some sort of interest. I don't think any faction is going to IC recruit going "we have some cool dicknasty secrets to learn, come join." I mean, if they have big flashy doom uniforms and such then that should be enough to think "hm they must've got these somehow therefore that is at least some sort of history probably"
derflaro, it's not always so simple. As far as I know, the faction I was interested in has no NPC contacts, and I was told by the DM to find out about it and pursue it IG. That's been difficult to impossible, but I haven't given up yet.
As for the other factions, I am certain they are interesting, deep and fun to play in, but I haven't developed a "bug" to chase them as I did the Forgotten Flower.
Really, it's still early days for the new setting, and I'm sure as DM factions become more established, they will continue to draw more interested players.
And Lado, please don't take offense at posts that try to answer your questions in the OP. I'm sure none was intended!
It may be poignant to note that this post marks the first time I have even -heard- of some of these factions. I know I'll get slammed for missing some blatantly obvious posts somewhere, but as my time for NWN becomes less and less, I tend to base my opinions more and more on what I see in-game, rather than in OOC posts here in the forums. No matter how fleshed out they may be, if I dont hear about them in-game, from a PC or an NPC, I'm not going to make an application to join them, or concept a character to fit in one. I simply have no idea they exist.
prestonhunt, that seems to be because the factions all just popped up last night. I'd never heard of a single one of them or their interests, even though I'd been seeking them out for two weeks for things I wanted to do IC.
Just to add to what i wrote previously: the current factions as I see them, or as my PCs might see them, well, i just don't know them. Some examples:
-Fleet: just another mercenary company? The only thing i'd ask one of their members is "If you've got ships, why the heck are you still here?" But hey, that's maybe something to investigate.
- Malatestas: I've yet to have on of their members actually show me what's the difference between a merchant labeled from the family, and the anonymous PC merchant?
I've read and re-read the faction anouncement, and well, it's just merchants and mercenaries. Beside, that's an OOC thing. My PCs haven't even heard the name of the family, or if they have, it's just another Joe the dude selling his wares.
On this faction, since it seems to be one causing this post, i think it's the kinda faction that will be known in due time, because it's the longevity that will give reknown to the name, family, organisation. You can't really expect Joe Smith the trader to suddenly attract lots of staff. Or if so, he's gotta adverstise himself, make the positions known, etc. This is a faction you join by interest, not passion.
And on a more personal note, i've played a merchant for more than a year, he's been more than successful both in riches and power, with no need whatsoever from anyone. I've played solo, had fun, never got bored, so, what's the point?
- Forgotten Flower: if i played elves (i don't like them much, should be apped imo, but whatever), that faction would appeal to me. I can imagine this isle to be perfect to seek elven artifacts, so it's clear.
- Stewards of the Ark: i've no idea what they do besides being a druidic thing. If i made up a ranger / druid or something, why would i want to join this circle rather than another, since i don't know it at all? And if they recruit IG why bother app?
- The Chauntean thing (can't remember the name): that's appealing because i know more or less the main framline will be build/protect crops, and then DMs or players can add whatever on top.
That's just my 2 cents. I just think the server is new, the factions not yet percieved as established within the isle, their main goals or even alignement not really clear, but that will settle in due time once their members will do public actions that will allow a reputation to form.
Sorry, people think my irritation is unwarranted.
I just want to clarify something.
People aren't giving opinions when they state something blatantly untrue. Saying A IS F is different from saying I think A seems like F. Saying the DMs have just given old, "boring" factions a lick of paint and a new name is just ludicrous; you should know us better than that by now.
If there's some reason for why you don't like the factions, you have every right to think that. Just make sure you think it for the right reasons, and not because you've convinced yourself that EfU DMs are lazy, unimaginative or con-men trying to shill you with second rate material when in reality they work very hard.
I think you have to work under the assumption that the factions are interesting even if you can't find material on them, what their goals are, or find them in game (which I will fully admit is a problem and certainly my fault). I mean, why else have you been faithfully playing EfU for so long, if you find what we do so boring?
If people hold an opinion, with all due honesty, they hold it for a reason.
You need to give them a reason to change that opinion, rather than telling them they're not entitled to those opinions which they formed because all the evidence available to them.
Not that you can please everyone, but really. The irritation is poorly directed in my opinion.
Quote from: Oroborous;93271PCs should run the militia in game, but they should also have NPCs in the militia to provide support. They should have some NPCs to offer their support--honestly--the only offer I saw so far came from the Stygians rather than a *single* NPC in the city. It was so player driven, that interest and activity has been extremely low in what is typically a very attractive faction for people to join.
I must agree with this. At the moment, there are two volunteer militia NPCs, and I'm not even sure if they're the same militia as the one run by PCs. I have attempted to get more characters to join, but everyone seems to have their own agenda.
Thinking about it, would a militia, quite well known have 10-12 soldiers?
PC run factions are excellent. And so are DM factions. But players like to have a try at organising something themselves, instead of just falling into line.
Wherein I declare myself a whiner...Quote from: Oroborous;93334prestonhunt, that seems to be because the factions all just popped up last night. I'd never heard of a single one of them or their interests, even though I'd been seeking them out for two weeks for things I wanted to do IC.
I'm still waiting to hear why a PC organized event which had been in the works for weeks was chosen as the moment we get introduced to a bunch of new NPCs who had nothing to do with any of what was planned.
The purpose of that event was to organize and elect the PC government. At this point, I'm not clear on whether or not there even is such a thing anymore. I do know this: I feel like the time I spent IC trying to get that project off the ground was completely wasted. I know that other PCs are just as upset about this as I am because I was getting flooded with tells about it. I also know that there are many other PCs who are unhappy, but are taking a 'wait and see' attitude.
From my personal sample, there is a significant number of people who were unhappy about what happened yesterday. I have never had so many tells at once, all over the same issue. I don't see any of those PCs speaking up here, and I know exactly why.
These days, anyone who makes a fair criticism of this server is immediately branded "a whiner" and their legitimate issue gets lumped in with all the other ridiculous complaints people come up with. Other PCs who have exactly the same criticism in private, but who don't want to publicly appear to be taking a position contrary to the DM team, pile on.
I understand that the DMs get disillusioned with seemingly endless gripes and complaints, but some of them are legitimate and worth considering. Two years ago, these issues were dealt with and resolved almost as soon as they arose. Today, people are so afraid to get on the wrong side of a DM that they just conform to whatever happens, whether they like it or not.
I don't think last night's event was fair to the players who put their time into trying to make something work, and
somebody needs to speak up about it or else nothing will get resolved on this issue. Call me a whiner if you like, I really don't care. I've been called worse by better.
It is extremely discouraging to see weeks worth of role-play and set-up go completely down the toilet because the NPCs decided to finally show up and crash the party after weeks worth of silence. Why couldn't that have been done at a separate event? Why wasn't there any communication or coordination with the PCs involved beforehand? How about just a heads up?
It's bad enough that we have to fight with other super-powered PCs (who have NPC guards of their own, thankyouverymuch) just to get something accomplished. That event was the culmination of just about every PC-driven attempt at government since the first day of EfU:A. If the DMs are just going to come in and take it over, there's really no point in trying.
Please, let's come up with
a standard procedure for organizing events which applies equally to DMs and PCs so that we can move past this issue once and for all.
Even if it is a little blunt, I think the above post whacks the nail on the head, concerning last night's event. Although I have faith in the DMs (after all, they've made this place incredibly fun all of the time I've been here) last night's meeting did seem to look like all the work that'd been done was being replaced.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't -think- that is what is going to happen. No-one could overlook the work that the PCs overlooking the government and militia have done, as it is a brilliant (if a little patchy) achievement.
I don't think NPCs should be completely be excluded from the government, as such is a silly idea. Just that the NPCs should have approched the government in a different fashion. Perhaps approched the PCs involved and asked them to put them up for an election, with a chance to make an election speech. That way, we'd have a mixture of NPCs and PCs in control of the government which seems, to me, to be the best idea.
I don't want to be called a "whiner", as I do no believe this is what I'm doing. I just wish to put my point across. I don't want to offend any of the DMs, especially the ones involved in last night's event.
I am taking the wait and see option. I am sure this will work out and EFU will continue to be the home of awesome.
Quote from: Ladocicea;93167Why aren't you joining them? What's wrong with the factions?
Apart from the fantastic reception the risen sun guys got when they first started (and possibly the archeological society currently), factions have been pretty slow to fill from what I can see.
Why?
People were practically clammouring to apply for most factions in Sanctuary, but EfUA factions have not been so popular.
So what's the deal?
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]My not-so-humbale opinion, with regards to the OP[/COLOR]... (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20770%22)
Where were some of these forum members (
posting in this thread) when I was being spanked for what they're saying and where are all the people that spanked me for it?
This thread got way out of hand. I'm closing it.
Concluding statement: Factions have worked well in EFU, and will continue to work in EFUA. Of course, we are completely open to constructive criticisms (as in, tell us how, not what) on improving the way we run our factions, and our faction system, but I feel like this thread has derailed into some sort of giant misconstrued mess.
Some constructive ideas of mine:
* Keep us aware of what your PCs are doing. Talk to the DMs on IRC, or make up a post that a DM can paste on our DM plot forum. That way, we're communicating with one another, and if a DM takes interest you can earn support in the toolset and through NPCs.
* If you'd like to submit a constructive suggestion, PM it to a DM to post on the DM forums, e-mail it to us, or post it on the suggestions forum.
* If you have a problem with a DM, try talking to them reasonably about it. DMs and players are human, so we will make mistakes, and miscommunicate. The way to solve these problems is to talk to one another, not hold a silent grudge.