Simple one this...
As has been done with Scare, remove the automatic immunity PC's get from spells when they hit certain levels.
Its being trialled for Scare. if its successful I say expand it to other spells. e.g. Sleep, Circle of Death, Colour Spray etc.
Players want to open it up for us as a DM staff to use Circle of Death on their level 9 to 10 characters?
Why thank you! We accept this suggestion graciously.
Quote from: BrittanyPanthas;199646Players want to open it up for us as a DM staff to use Circle of Death on their level 9 to 10 characters?
Why thank you! We accept this suggestion graciously.
Make that one player, the one who posted above! No plural please.
Anyway, this would frankly make Sleep a rather powerful spell. Things are balanced as they are for a reason, messing with that balance very often has results you really can't predict. This would result in some of these first level spells actually being more powerful than spells of a higher level.
Sleep is coded so it can't affect more than 4+d4 HD anyhow. Which only puts it at a 'potential' of affecting up to level 8.
I wouldn't mind removing the 5 hit die cap in light of that, given the enormous power of Color Spray as it stands over sleep. Given that a simple protection or clarity potion blocks sleep as well, I don't really see a problem.
I would however try to remove the automatic critical hit it grants to PCs, as that would make it potentially more powerful than Hold Person, even if it breaks right away.
Sleep is fairly weak, seeing that a single hit will cause the sleeping target to wake up, whereas Color Spray -stuns-.
Not sure it would make Sleep that uber. A good deal of the server is vulnerable to it at any given point... why not the rest?
Maybe even have a + X bonus save past a certain level, if its felt Sleep would get too powerful?
Another good point is that sleep always goes after the weakest targets first.
So personally I'd be in favor so long as the automatic critical hit/hit is removed.
Quote from: BrittanyPanthas;199655Another good point is that sleep always goes after the weakest targets first.
So personally I'd be in favor so long as the automatic critical hit/hit is removed.
That only applies to monsters under level 4. Not to characters of any level.
What are you proposing that we do to adjust colour spray?
Quote from: Johannes;199690What are you proposing that we do to adjust colour spray?
Personally, I'd make it so that it dazes instead of stun. I find it ridiculous how it gets more powerful against powerful opponents. It's just my opinion though. I'd rather see sleep being useful rather than seeing Color Spray changed.
Maybe improve sleep, but removing immunity to spells via level would be quite unbalancing. Cloudkill insta killing level 9's?
INSTAKILLIN' NEWBS SINCE 2010!
I'm in favour of the improvements to sleep. I shall make a Wizard who specializes in making people fall asleep, then give them nightmares. I will call him Gengar.
Johannes - Regarding colour spray make it the same for all levels.
As long as the one hit kill isn't active then Sleep is largely the same as a Hold Spell if not slightly weaker in that in one hit you get free of it.
Sleep spell is also easily defended and effects allies as well as enemies so isn't that great.
Colour Spray doesn't need a change. it's a good spell, but it's one of only two spells that benefit from SF/GSF Illusion. High DC Sprays are what makes Illusionists dangerous against hordes and make up for the lack of Holding spells a bit. On the other hand Enchantment has Sleep, Laughter, Holding, Blind/Deaf, Confusion, Hold Monster, Charm and Dominate.
Not Broke. Don't fix it. Always better to make a poor option useable than make a good option lousy.
Quote from: DollarPhil;199795Colour Spray doesn't need a change. it's a good spell, but it's one of only two spells that benefit from SF/GSF Illusion. High DC Sprays are what makes Illusionists dangerous against hordes and make up for the lack of Holding spells a bit. On the other hand Enchantment has Sleep, Laughter, Holding, Blind/Deaf, Confusion, Hold Monster, Charm and Dominate.
Not Broke. Don't fix it. Always better to make a poor option useable than make a good option lousy.
You speak as though illusionists don't benefit from other illusion spells, such as improved invisibility, or cannot use other spells.
I don't agree.
I see too many spells becoming too powerful, and wizards in general far too strong. Necromancers for instance, with Cloud Kill, would become very overpowered.
Not unless Necromancy starts affecting Conjuration spells... ;)
I remember suggesting that we remove the level cap on Sleep and my idea got shot down almost immediately.
Sleep, yes. Other ones? Meh.
BADUMP. I'd like to see Sleep and Daze both be uncapped; I feel there won't be any serious balance issue, as Daze only lasts 2 rounds and is fairly low save, and Sleep has the aforementioned 4+1d4 HD limit already. Low level enchantment is kind of hurting otherwise, tbh.
The last thing wizards need is buffs. Just stop plz.
Buff pure ftrz plz
this isn't about buffing wizards. this is about making enchantment more useful for low levels and maintaining some balance. seeing as necromancy got such a "buff" it seems only fair to even it out for these low level spells.
Removing the caps seems like a good idea. For scare worked wonders, its usefull but far from OP. I'd love seeing this cap removed from sleep too, and daze.
However removing it from cloudkill seems like a bad idea. Any level 9 wizard could potentially kill ANYTHING if he gets lucky.
Can't any level 9 Mage kill just about anything if he gets lucky though? A good roll, matched with the right circumstances and tactics makes mages deadly.
If Cloudkill is thought to be OP (like say Evards Tentacles was) then tweak it down somehow?
The principle of the OP was that having complete "immunity" to a spell based on an OOC PC level where one minute it effects you and the next, if you level-up, it does nothing, is lame.
Why not implement this, and if it causes too many problems, change it back to the default? The level caps make sense on an epic level server, but not so much on EfU:A.
In regards to Cloudkill: Yes, let's remove the cap for a spell then nerf said spell because of it.... or just leave it as is.
Additionally, I thought sleep already had the cap removed yet b/c of the weird way the spell works it will remain fairly useless against anything of decent level and always useless against high levels. Daze could be alright but with the new spells it seems unnecessary.
Please boost power to Daze, Colorspray and sleep immediately, because my char uses them constantly, and they never work. I have no other reason, just want to be blatantly selfish..oh and make perks for pure fighters too! I may play one some day, ..and umm..Clerics! They need perks, I have a concept for a really cool one...Oh! And Paladins.. Cause they need luv..
Quote from: Shamtastic;236206Please boost power to Daze, Colorspray and sleep immediately, because my char uses them constantly, and they never work. I have no other reason, just want to be blatantly selfish..oh and make perks for pure fighters too! I may play one some day, ..and umm..Clerics! They need perks, I have a concept for a really cool one...Oh! And Paladins.. Cause they need luv..
lol
The others not so much but sleep should definitely be uncapped. Why anyone would thinking making a spell of the absolute worst school slightly better is a bad thing, is beyond me. Enchanters already suck in PvE compared to most wizards (see loss of blur, invis, imp invis, displace and no diviner upgraded clair/clau) so I think upgrading this spell even if only for specialists would be a welcome addition.