future / reworked / "V3" / whatever of EFU? Just a question out of pure curiosity really, and it should be assumed that the EFU DM team would not simply pile together loads of garbage for a few good pieces, but rather implement quality things as they saw fit.
I would.
Definitely. Immediately. Those who wouldn't are not loyal to the awesome that is Escape from Underdark. But I wouldn't cry if it never happened.
Now that I know what kind of quality I'm dealing with, sure. If I was new to the server, hell no.
I would, definitely.
Sure, why not?
Absolutely, I would.
I would, yes. But that's not the issue.
If the server requires Haks, it's much less likely for new players to log in, check it and like it. If EFU:A required hacks, i wouldn't be here.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;202654I would, yes. But that's not the issue.
If the server requires Haks, it's much less likely for new players to log in, check it and like it. If EFU:A required hacks, i wouldn't be here.
Do you know how many people play Ravenloft? I've seen 50 people online at once, and that's on a dull day. It requires a lot of haks, but people download them.
EfU is a marvelous server! The best I've ever played! I would -pay- for the Haks, then download them, no matter how long it took! And I'm sure plenty of others could agree! :D
I also likely wouldn't have initially joined. It was randomly picking servers on GameSpy that I came to be here, back when I was utterly uninterested in haks. Now I'm much more interested in even unknown servers requiring haks and am willing to download and install them when trying a new server. Many are not like this, though. We'd see far less new players if there were haks, it's just be more things to scare them away. No solo grinding (or any grinding at all, really), heavy penalties for death, and then haks?
Amia was HAK-free for years. We had exactly the concerns that new players wouldn't find their way in quite as easily. We finally decided to incorporate our own HAKs early this year, and there was no notable drop in player count. It was all speculation that turned out baseless. Yes, there were less new accounts joining, but the daily player count seemed steady. Granted, EfU is much smaller and thus more vulnerable because it doesn't hang on the top of the Gamespy server list.
Today, the playerbase of NWN grows smaller by the day. Veterans have seen it all and are looking for something new. You can't really find many vanilla servers around anymore. Everyone who still plays NWN online has managed to download large patches and a HAK wouldn't pose an actual problem. It's more an attitude question. I think the general attitude of the NWN playerbase is different than when you joined EfU.
If I was an established player I would - but the appeal of both EfU and CoA, to me, as a new player are that they are non HAK and you can jump straight in.
Would that appeal really be lost if both had been using HAKs, leaving almost no option that is without them and still 'popular' ?
I started out on CoA and found the server before I found the website or forums.
If I had tried to log into the server and it wouldn't have let me due to not having the HAKs I would have probably just gone elsewhere rather than tried to find the forums or the download.
There is no reason to (unless someone tells you that the server is brilliant and you have to play there) when you can simply go to another server and just click connect.
There are always other options and other servers - I guess it just depends on how lazy you are!
I agree 100% that there should not be a HAK. That barrier prevents new players from joining in many instances. When I first got NWN, I clicked around to find servers I could try without needing HAKs. New players outweigh some shiny new HAK stuff any day.
Quote from: Echigo;202655Do you know how many people play Ravenloft? I've seen 50 people online at once, and that's on a dull day. It requires a lot of haks, but people download them.
EfU is a marvelous server! The best I've ever played! I would -pay- for the Haks, then download them, no matter how long it took! And I'm sure plenty of others could agree! :D
Ravenloft runs 30+ generally at all times of the day and requires extensive hakpaks, yes.
Also, what "New Players" Are we finding? This game is over a decade old now.
exceptions and rules
how does a game being a decade old stop new people from playing
exceptions and rules
how does a game being a decade old stop new people from playing
when i want to play a new game/server i don't want to download a bunch of inane shit for slightly modified numbers and supposedly prettier placables. i don't think i would have played efu in the first place if there was hak packs, and i really doubt said hak packs are a good reason to further isolate the server from new players
I don't think this question is really the best one! I would, but that doesn't mean I think haks would be a good idea for the server.
Yes there is proof that some servers work with them but I thin a massive selling point for EfU is how easy it is to just hop in and play! And I think changing that would be a terrible idea
I would definitely download haks for EFU. However when I first started on the server, I probably wouldn't have logged on the server if I had to download haks to play.
If haks can be down in a way that they are optional to play on the server, but mandatory for optional things, I would be all for haks. Stuff like prestige classes and spell powers for special items (DM loot) and app races ect.
You can't compare the situation when you started to this day. Almost everyone playing is a veteran, and established servers are competing for established players. Players move from one server to another at friends' recommendations; those who randomly click servers and decide to stick around in one are probably a small minority at this point.
Truthfully, I think EfU, Arelith and CoA should make the collective decision to go HAK, leaving no viable options. If all the big servers require HAKs, you're going to download a HAK. And if you're too lazy to do even that, then you're probably too lazy to be a good new player in the first place.
It's also quite possible that the prospect of shiny new HAK content would lure in more players than the HAK-free policy does. Old players want to see something new. Not to mention that catering to the current playerbase and keeping them excited is more important than fishing for new players, though both are obviously important.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but it's certainly worth considering if there's some HAK material the builders want to use. Experience shows it won't kill a server even if the doomsayers try to claim so, but it will probably decrease player immigration somewhat. It's a trade-off for sure, but not as dramatic as some make it out to be.
I'd rather not have a HAK because everything I try to download becomes useless garbage. It's because I'm too ignorant to know how to download things correctly.
If we are trying to get new players we are just as likely to get them with or without haks. Back in the days yes the appeal was that it required no haks while most others had CEP or some such but that time is over. Now you have players coming from one server to another to find something different that will make them stay and tbh with you most of the servers were people nowadays are ones that involve haks.
I don't understand why some people hate haks so much anyway, its not like it stops you from playing other servers and most haks are are quite small.
All I'm saying is that I willingly downloaded haks for various servers, just to -try- them. Some people will, others won't. In fact, some people would be more inclined to try it if it had required haks, whilst others wouldn't.
Regardless, this server will always be numbuh 1.
I would say that a huge portion of the new players we get come here because a friend or acquaintance informed them of EFU, not because they were randomly looking for a new server. I would also guess that the amount of players that had quit and would return for something fresh, new, and more exciting would far outweigh any loss of 'new' players.
I think Barehander argues most of the points very well.
Quote from: Blue41;202639Now that I know what kind of quality I'm dealing with, sure. If I was new to the server, hell no.
Can't emphasize this enough.
EfU deserves (even more awesomeness to compliment the awesome) what it cannot have (pushing away potential new players from a relatively ancient game).
Hak? Whats a HAK, i had enough trouble trying to find where i put the 2da thingamajig from the downloads on the forum.
Quote from: Barehander;202699You can't compare the situation when you started to this day. Almost everyone playing is a veteran, and established servers are competing for established players. Players move from one server to another at friends' recommendations; those who randomly click servers and decide to stick around in one are probably a small minority at this point.
Truthfully, I think EfU, Arelith and CoA should make the collective decision to go HAK, leaving no viable options. If all the big servers require HAKs, you're going to download a HAK. And if you're too lazy to do even that, then you're probably too lazy to be a good new player in the first place.
It's also quite possible that the prospect of shiny new HAK content would lure in more players than the HAK-free policy does. Old players want to see something new. Not to mention that catering to the current playerbase and keeping them excited is more important than fishing for new players, though both are obviously important.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but it's certainly worth considering if there's some HAK material the builders want to use. Experience shows it won't kill a server even if the doomsayers try to claim so, but it will probably decrease player immigration somewhat. It's a trade-off for sure, but not as dramatic as some make it out to be.
This is my opinion in a nutshell. Good post, Bare.
Quote from: Badcompany;202941Hak? Whats a HAK, i had enough trouble trying to find where i put the 2da thingamajig from the downloads on the forum.
It's a single file you put into the directory labelled "hak". It doesn't get much easier than that.
All this is moot if the designers don't want to use HAK content, of course. If there ever is to be a HAK on EfU, it should be high quality stuff hand-picked for the builders' purposes. No CEP crap.
I don't think any established player here would not download a hak to play efu.
Conversely, anyone who is new to NwN will have bought it at the suggestion of a friend who will show them the ropes.
EFU has tons of content that I thought only a hak could achieve, I was proven thoroughly wrong each and everytime. From custom cleric domains, to unique monsters such as assassin vines, electro-elementals, Shambling Mounds, and hornet swarms. All done without a hak.
I feel EFU can benefit in far larger ways from selectively picking and choosing their haks carefully than from remaining staunchly hak free.
I wouldn't download a hak, just saying.
Quote from: putrid_plum;202956I wouldn't download a hak, just saying.
This is because your plums are putrid.
When I tell people about NWN, they are amazed at the possibilities.
When I tell people about EfU, they are excited by the prospect of a good role-playing experience.
When I tell people that EfU doesn't use custom content, they look at me like I've just climbed out of my own skull.
A no-HAK server made sense in 2003. Nowadays, when it takes most people about 10 minutes to download the latest CEP, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Anybody who is logging in to EfU has already downloaded the 1.69 update. Excuse me for pointing this out to you bunch of unrepentant Luddites, but that's already bigger than most HAKs.
Get over it and use some of the content that's been out there for almost ten years already. It's not like this game is getting any younger. At least use the CEP, freaking everybody has that already. I'd bet that even the people who voted "No" on this poll have downloaded CEP.
YAY MORE SCRIPTS AND LAGGY SKINS
God the CEP is bad.
People who like haks are, by and large, creepy cyborers, and the haks are nothing other than a tool to facilitate their creepiness.
I like the pretty CEP cloths and I don't cyber. I masturbate on my own time, thank you.
I support haks because they offer a larger range of skimpy negligee for my PCs to wear.
You normally have a solid basis for your shitty trolls Ninelives :S, please improve after reading first page.
(http://nwn.bioware.com/_global/images/gallery/cep_screens_creatures/cep_creature_13_small.jpg)
Quote from: tropic;202999(http://nwn.bioware.com/_global/images/gallery/cep_screens_creatures/cep_creature_13_small.jpg)
Is that a zombie with an affro?
No, it's a pirate zombie. See the eyepatch and peg leg? That's just a rather poorly made pirate hat on his head, or it's just a bad angle.
As a NWN player since release I can honestly say I've never not joined a server because of HAKs. Having played EFU for a while as well I would think the word of mouth/forums/website would be enough to convince people to join. If we wanted to add HAKs should do one or two small/medium ones, then after a few months start adding a few more. This way new players aren't having to deal with downloading and sorting a ton of files at once. I mean I know people say haks drive people away but honestly I doubt it is even a factor in most cases now.
The server is great already, what more could we add with haks? CEP content doesn't impress me, much, and actually it could turn me off of downloading any haks for this server, as it's so large and my provider would hate me forever, though I do have some of the newer versions laying about (I think I have 2.2 installed). I think it's a question of what is best for the server. New, awesome content is always great, but does it really outweigh those few players who would be turned off? *shrug* I don't know.
I voted yes, but some people make some very good points about new players cruising in...
HOWEVER...
At this time, I think that as more servers go away, people will see servers that have a a large number of players and gravitate to them, even if there were haks.
I mean, if you saw three servers and two of them didn't have haks, but they also had zero players, while one with haks had 20+ players on... where would you go?
That said, where does EfU go after the Archipelago?
(BTW, that's a vote to say I would download haks, but it definitely is not a statement to say I think EfU should go haks or that I even think it's necessary or would be helpful.)
omg hax wut
I would download haks to continue playing here, but I can't imagine that they would improve my fun a lot.
Maybe the server would even look better than it already does, but if I would play for the graphics I would spend my time with Crysis and not poor old NWN.
Everyone has a point here with haks putting new players off etc but here is how i see being a fairly new player myself only having played just under a year now.
Haks do indeed scare you off especially if you don't know the ins and outs of the nwn folder.
Most people don't really know what haks are for and why the server will not allow them to join, if you provide clearly in the server information what website to go to and then on the forums itself have a step to step guide exactly how to do it with little effort in finding this information then i gurentee new players will happily download haks as long as it is spoon fed to them and requires little effort on thier part.
Quote from: SilentSouth;203080Haks do indeed scare you off especially if you don't know the ins and outs of the nwn folder.
the hak files go in the hak folder, how much easier can it get?
It is indeed as simple as that. Any file that ends with a .hak goes in the folder named hak.
Yeah but what i mean is, people with not much experience on computers get easily scared by all this stuff. Most people are not adept as you may think and dont even know how to get the programme files. :P
It's extremely easy to package a .hak in an installer.
this is irrelevant anyways. just vp trolling us to start a discussion regarding haks duh
Tbh just look at the overides by Mort and tell me that we need Haks to improve it. Most hak custom skins look stupid and poorly made anyway.
We'd be able to incorporate a lot more into the server, new spells, new PrCs, hell, even a custom head override. <_>
Would I download haks at this point? Yeah... I download all custom overrides, being optional, why not the Haks? Now... Would I be here, in the first place, if when I found out about EFU I had to download haks? No.
I don't think I've ever tried a server that required haks.
I'm not sure people realize what haks actually are. They're typically not like CEP. A custom hak would only include the high quality material the designers want to use for EfU. And I can assure you, there's a lot of ridicilously good material out there even if 70% of it is crap.
It would be so much easier if all the overrides, for example, were integrated into a hak. Our overrides are cool, but bad because they're overrides: if you use them for EfU, you use them for everything in NWN. Haks also make for smoother mechanical modifications, not to mention new monsters and first and foremost, tilesets and placeables. Additional weapon and clothing models may be cool or cheesy, but the real attraction of haks is that they drastically increase potential in area design.
A hak is the only way to make the custom PrCs work smoothly too, but there's of course game balance issues to address there.
The haks will be custom, they will be only what we and the dms want so please stop using the argument that you don't want to download skin hak packs.
oh wait barehander already said my point, i will say it again to emphasize tbh
I doubt this will even make a difference really, its completley down to Howland and co obviously. So this whole argument is pretty pointless. The poll however is good, so now they know if they ever did want to release a hak they know we will download it.
The question is the wrong thing here. Yes, I would download the damn haks, yes. And no, I wouldn't like to see EFU with haks, simply because I enjoy the fact that new players get to discover EFU, and would not if there were haks.