I've seen these being used as a radar lately where people toss them near transitions or sprinkle them here and there in the ruins. The problem is that they will receive an alert in the combat log that they are damaging someone and instantly know where this is happening and know that they can buff up and run to that location with a target likely still nearby.
It seems rather silly that this is happening, or even can happen, so I'd like to suggest that, if possible, caltrops are either removed when the person who threw them leaves the area or they have their duration reduced by quite a bit.
I have also noticed this. Second this suggestion.
Obvious abuse of mechanics, should be reported and players reprimanded?
Could be fixed in the script so that they dont use the Thrower as the damage dealer and just be like a trap.
I don't use them in this way, and I don't think they should work just like this, but it is nice to see them getting used in semi-creative ways that keep them useful. If they're going to be changed, could they also display a local message in the area when someone enters them, like "Something disturbs the caltrops lying here," or similar?
As a bonus, if the thrower is no longer the damage dealer, that would keep them from losing invis, which would be nice.
I have witnessed this happening but i know for a fact it wasn't for that reason, more of a 'middle finger to the dominion' kind of thing, i quite liked the idea of the specific PC 'X' doing this, so i wouldn't always assume it is being mechanically abused.
Having the trap be the damage source would also make it so it doesn't break invis. For a lot of people I bet that would sound great, but guaranteed damage from invis leads to some exploit-y situations.
Quote from: MrGrendel;214454I don't use them in this way, and I don't think they should work just like this, but it is nice to see them getting used in semi-creative ways that keep them useful. If they're going to be changed, could they also display a local message in the area when someone enters them, like "Something disturbs the caltrops lying here," or similar?
As a bonus, if the thrower is no longer the damage dealer, that would keep them from losing invis, which would be nice.
I don't think that the traps being disturbed is IC knowledge at all.
The same could be said of any trap used as well. It really down to the person using it to not abuse that. It still should break invis imo.
Quote from: Mort;214451Could be fixed in the script so that they dont use the Thrower as the damage dealer and just be like a trap.
I'm not sure if that's correct actually. I believe that if you lay a trap, go invis and someone triggers it, it will still report to you that you damage "someone" for X amount and likely even break your invis.
If not then that could certainly work and would be far better than letting people have permanent alarm spells laying around.
Trap damage please. Awesome possible fix for a crappy abusable mechanic.
edited by DM:
User has been banned
Just kinda randomly throwing this out there. But instead of damage, could it reduce hide and move silently? Kind of as a sort of rogue trap. That would fix the exploit and make it useful compared to its current worthlessness.
I don't see a need for the change. Caltrops are made as an all propose Rogue/Ranger/Druid tool to guard camp grounds, slow down pursuers, and make yell out in hatred having stomped down on a spike.
RL I've seen grown Carpenters step in a nail and cry out in pain. Perhaps its on the player to properly roleplay the situation and the damage being done while crossing the area.
I don't see it as exploitable but proper use a tool that less to non-effective if changed to a trap.
Quote from: AceOfSpadesX;214473I don't think that the traps being disturbed is IC knowledge at all.
Why is it not IC to see or hear caltrops being moved around?
Because areas can be large enough where you would not conceivable hear something from certain distances, and I don't think there is a way to localize such a message to the immediate area. If you are close enough to hear them being shuffled around, you would likely be close enough to see whoever is walking on them.
Quote from: AceOfSpadesX;214514I don't think there is a way to localize such a message to the immediate area.
/c knock comes to mind, for one.
Quote from: MrGrendel;214508Why is it not IC to see or hear caltrops being moved around?
The messages show up no matter where the person is who set the caltrops. That's the whole problem here and the reason I suggested that they are changed. People are using them as a radar to know whenever someone passes wherever they were placed.
Quote from: VanillaPudding;214525The messages show up no matter where the person is who set the caltrops. That's the whole problem here and the reason I suggested that they are changed.
Yes, but it would be preferrable to still see them if you are in the area than to remove the functionality completely from an item that is already of marginal use.
While we're talking about changing it, how about actually making it so it can slow down pursuers, which is pretty much it's real purpose anyway? :)
Yeah, they're really rather useless. They can't do any real damage (nothing in fact if someone has 5% Pierce Resist), and if you've set some, they'll break your stealth or invis from all over the place. I'd suggest having them work more like Spike Growth. Minimal damage and a reflex save to avoid a 10% movement reduction for a couple of minutes.
Quote from: ExileStrife;214472Having the trap be the damage source would also make it so it doesn't break invis. For a lot of people I bet that would sound great, but guaranteed damage from invis leads to some exploit-y situations.
This makes it sound as though you think it's logical that someone stepping on a caltrop somewhere would break the insisibility of whoever put it there.
If you make it trap damage, you could also make caltrops not suck as much. I love that idea.
Someone should adjust it. Remind us if it isn't after a suitable period of time.