Is it just me, or isn't PVP supposed to be initiated, no, agreed upon, OOC before it happens IC? Please share your thoughts here...
PvP is something that should be done IC.
If you want to make sure someone OOC agrees, that's really kind of you.
Personally, if I'm going to PvP you, I'll have likely made it clear to you IC already or your PC has gone out of their way to get on my PCs bad side.
It is nice when you can but no, OOC agreement is not nor should it be needed. As Oro pointed out, it is an IC situation. Some examples where it is clearly unwise to alert someone OOC of PvP would assassinations or any surprise attack. In addition, even normal face to face PvP probably should have enough markers to point to the onset of PvP in the near future.
I really have to go back to the idea that, as I recall, made rather clear in the server description also.
This is rather hardcore roleplaying server, it may not be fit for newest persons, but it isn't overly hard either. It has also been said that pvp is a daily part of life, and you should be prepared to reap what you sove, so to say.
If you're asking to get stabbed, you may just get it. I don't expect anyone to make it clear OOC that I am going to get owned. I'm sure I've seen it coming IC for a reason or another.
If you're not being griefed, CvC (or PvP) is probably something you brought on yourself. Forcing an OOC agreement ends up becoming a 'Asshole Shield'.
You act like an Asshole and then when someone says, "Hey, I'm gonna try to FD you, cool?" you go, "Um, no... NOT cool. Duh!"
Folks get plentyof warning. All you need is the two seconds between seeing "So and so dislikes you". That's more warning than many would get if the situation were truly IC.
It's just you.
QuoteIf you're not being griefed, CvC (or PvP) is probably something you brought on yourself.
Absolutely wrong. Its entirely possible to be robbed or sacrificed by someone you never heard of. Its possible to be attacked for something absolutely paltry you wouldn't think twice about saying or doing or because you have something somebody else wants.
If you want specific examples I will provide them, though it will likely be construed as "being a whiner" so I'd rather not.
Sometimes you do just get mugged or sacrificed or whatever, but its a rarity. Typically if you're in PvP, you've done something to put you there.
I know the one time where that has been an exception in my whole of EFU, and I was just murdered randomly, the DM overseeing actually gave me the opportunity to respawn afterwards. Granted it was under another login name, and had he known it was me, I'm sure he'd have just brought out the popcorn instead.
If you're not being griefed, CvC (or PvP) is probably something you brought on yourself.
Read the statement carefully before attacking it. I didn't say it is always something you brought on yourself. Do not work with absolutes, my friend.
In my opinion, which you are perfectly allowed to think is stupid, someone randomly and totally out of the blue just mugging your PC is griefing. It may not be griefing beyond the threshhold of negative OOC repercussion, but it's griefing.
Do keep in mind though, that walking through the 'bad part of town', a mugging is something you brought on yourself.
Bringing something on yourself is not left entirely to a black and white interpretation of you were being an asshole to someone thus they PKed (Player Killed) you.
Playing a drow in a KOS (kill on sight) world is 'bringing it on yourself'. Playing a Paladin and strolling through the thieves quarter on your way to somewhere else entirely is 'bringing it on yourself'. Walking into a rowdy bar notorious for fistfights is 'bringing it on yourself'.
It is what it is and more to the point doesn't call for enforced warning of premeditated CvC.
Quote from: Jayde Moon;95073Do not work with absolutes, my friend.
These are the wise words I impart unto you from my years of experience.
Bwahahahahaa. Ahahahahahahahahahaha. :rolleyes:
No, you don't need to agree to PvP OOCly. Usually it's best to keep it entirely in character. Well, that's true of most things. Nonetheless, you can be courteous without expressly conversing with the other player; do it through your character's actions.
I don't think that an OOC agreement to PvP is the solution, but I have had situations where someone started PvP with my char when I was afk (I returned to my PC to find myself in the fugue with no idea why,) and another where I had just crashed while fighting an encounter, re-logged to find myself in the fugue, re-spawned and was sorting my quickbar when someone PvP'd me out of nowhere. In the latter case, they were able to take advantage of the fact that I was both near death and without a quickbar for completely OOC reasons.
I think there is an extra burden on the person initiating PvP to determine whether the other player is (A) not afk, and (B) actively IC or ready to be actively IC. That can be done simply by watching the person for a short while, and by emoting the PvP. If you come upon someone who is standing still, especially if they continue to stand still while you attack them, you have to wonder "why?". If you run across someone who is "near death" and you don't know why, you might just shoot them a tell and ask them - you don't even have to mention that you're about to PvP them.
Basically, if you haven't been watching them for a short while and been able to see that they're actively IC, you should be taking extra caution to determine whether they're IC or whether you're taking advantage of an OOC situation.
Finally, I find PvP without emotes to be in poor taste. The victim should walk away from PvP with a story to tell, and the burden is on the attacker to provide the story. This is not a rule, just good sportsmanship, and goes a long way toward reducing bad feelings.
Unless I'm wrong, attackers MUST be sure their opponent is not afk.
LTS... you lost me on the part where you added a line that I didn't say and then found it funneh.
What am I missing, please to enlighten me?
You quoted your own post, not using quote tags but with italics. You referred to someone you're having an internet argument with as "my friend" which is a total passive-aggressive buzz term. You say "Do not work with absolutes" as though it's some ancient saying quoted directly from Confucius. Everything about your post, all together, made me laugh out loud for several minutes. Don't think I'm trying to be mean or anything, you just came across as very self-important and that made me :)
It's LTS.
Don't try and make sense out of it, just agree. :P
Anyway, back on topic. No. Going OOC during PVP or even before makes it not fun, personally. If someone's going to gank my character, I want to be surprised! I don't want to be sat at my computer chair, bracing myself for an attack. I want it to make me jump.
(This is not an open invitation to gank me, btw.)
And as for the making sure they're not afk? It shouldn't require a tell to figure it out. Basically, if they're not moving, speaking or emoting I recommend you leave it until there is a sign of life.
Ah! Well, I AM important! Didn't you get the memo?
Didn't realize we were at the level of 'internet argument' yet, then I'd pull out ALL the stops :P Trolling, flaming, straw men... you NAME IT!
In any case, agree with iBard there. I'd rather not know I'm about to be ganked.
And yeah, if you jump out from your hidey hole, yell, "BLAAARGH!!! I KEEL JOO!" and run all up on them and they don't move, react, draw steel, run away, emote... anything... I'd stop and stare at them real hard.
Another dead giveaway is if you charge and their buddies go, "Hey, dude. Like, he's totally AFK. Didn't you get the memo?"
going afk is baaaaaaad. It's just begging for trouble. Either you're in a quest area and you're with buddies that will watch you're back, or you're on your own and you're probably in the ziggurat etc in which you can LOG OFF.
It's not rocket science.
Cluckyx, arguing that no one should ever be afk is completely unrealistic, and arguing that you deserve anything that happens to you for being afk shows complete lack of respect for the real world your fellow players live in.
If you attack someone who is AFK it will be immediately obvious as they will just stand there and probably auto-punch you repeatedly until they are subdued. In this case you should probably break it off. Ideally though a DM would be there watching and enforce this; another great reason (beyond it being the rules) to always inform a DM of PvP even if it isn't in an NPC-populated area.
Quote from: PanamaLane;95060I know the one time where that has been an exception in my whole of EFU, and I was just murdered randomly, the DM overseeing actually gave me the opportunity to respawn afterwards. Granted it was under another login name, and had he known it was me, I'm sure he'd have just brought out the popcorn instead.
Actually, I think the DMs can check if it's you, by your CD keys. I'm not a hundred percent sure on this, though.
Just cause they can doesn't mean they think to do it!
Quote from: JackOfSwords;95148Cluckyx, arguing that no one should ever be afk is completely unrealistic, and arguing that you deserve anything that happens to you for being afk shows complete lack of respect for the real world your fellow players live in.
No no no no no no
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. All I said is it's good practise to Log Off when you're afk for more than a minutes.
Prevention is better than cure. Everyone knows that,
Simple, if someone is standing still not doing anything, send them a tell saying "Are you AFK?" and if they don't respond, wait for them to, and as soon as they say something like "Back, what's up?", then PvP. This makes it so that you still have the element of surprise when they get back and they aren't being killed while AFK.
It is not a good idea to even set people to hostile until RIGHT BEFORE you attack. There shouldn't be any OOC agreement on the PvP, if necissary, that can come after PvP (all parties involved, keep your cool, nothing I hate more than someone that can't accept the fact they've just been FD'd, just completelly ruins my day). A few people do metagame on this server, so that person you plan on attacking on a routine trip between Starwood/Ziggurat may suddenly be buffed anticipating an attack, he may even justify it, saying "well, I was expecting goblin assassins" when in actuallity the "Fred now dislikes you!" message was the thing that made them drink 300gp in potions.
So, don't attack people who are AFK and it's not a good idea to warn people OOC before you attack. Maybe if you're going to sacrifice random people some OOC agreement is in order, however.
Lol.
"
Are you AFK?"
"
No... why?"
"
BLEEEEYAAAARGH!!!!!"
QuoteA few people do metagame on this server, so that person you plan on attacking on a routine trip between Starwood/Ziggurat may suddenly be buffed anticipating an attack, he may even justify it, saying "well, I was expecting goblin assassins" when in actuallity the "Fred now dislikes you!" message was the thing that made them drink 300gp in potions.
Alternately, just setting people on dislike for the hell of it could be a good way to get them to burn resources! Less prepared for when the wolf is actually there.
If a PC is taken down for otherwise legitimate reasons while AFK, it is not the responsibility of the attacker to determine this, it's the responsibility of the AFKer to either log out, or accept the small chance that something bad could occur while AFK.
Our very own ExileStrife was once PvP attacked while AFK on the steps of Town Hall. He alt-tabbed back in and immediately ran to the SG tower, or so I heard. CON/Endurance-build Wizard FTW.
As a side note, whenever I needed to set someone hostile for an arrest or something, I'd just hostile the whole server. It would amuse me greatly to learn that someone several areas away that I had never heard of burned their potions in anticipation of an attack that wasn't coming. :)
Continues talking about the good ol' days without relevance...
When I see the message, "Player X now dislikes you!", I feel very hurt, and usually log off soon after to cry and indulge myself in a quart of ice cream. ;)
I agree, setting the entire server to hostile before PvP is the best solution. I've developed the habit of also keeping the server on hostile for the mandatory online period after PvP, regardless if I think there is a chance for retaliation.
It just makes it easier for people to attack me with the element of surprise.
I like to just walk up to people and set them hostile sometimes.
Its fun to watch them turn around and head the other way all of a sudden.
But Oro, if your character is glowing red, it means you're glaring at them angrily whilst fondling your weapon menacingly! But of course they run when you glow like that. I guess you didn't watch enough cartoons as a kid.
I don't think you can blame anyone for bailing if Oro turns you to hostile.
Hmm, the biggest trouble with hostiling the entire server is this. Familiars will auto-attack you and it can cause fights. When the Olid Gang and half the Zig were about to go torch some trees, Albedos and Farden were hostile. My Chicken then attempted to Doom Gaze them both as I walked around and saw them, almost causing a fight and potentially losing me 100xp if I hadn't rapidly unsummoned and typed "//ignore" before they auto-attacked. Unless you're careful and check the player list (and risk unhostiling someone about to PVP you), dicey "pre PVP" situations can be annoying.
Imo, since we all metagame, maybe just set that dude unhostile firsts, and see what happens. Likely if he sets you hostile again, or a third time, he's gunning for you. ^^
Considering I was killed, twice, by the same person when I was AFK, getting back only to find Orik either nearly dead or subdued, I think that it should be polite to ask 'Hey, you on?' with a tell first, just to be fair. If they post a //AFK message, then lay off of them until they're back. If you don't get a response, assume that they're AFK and wait for a minute or two, then repeat.
Again, this isn't mandatory, but I feel it'd be much more polite. Then again, this may just be me talking after getting ganked twice when I was either AFK because I had to be, or I had the screen minimized for 1 second.
This is done. I think.
Tells/party chat/ooc warnings are immersion-breaking, the less the better. Obviously, they are essential, but if we can reduce them as much as possible, we should.