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I'm gonna open this point blank by saying I know things are not easy in EFU. As a player and DM alike I've seen both sides of the server and know both hats worn. This post is not a harsh critique of anyone but may be kicking up a bit of dust. The idea is not in any way to make individuals anger, bait trolls, or otherwise. Just a few things I've come across since I've come back that folks don't seem to be talking about.

With that doozy of a disclaimer aside I am just doing this to start a discussion-

The State of the efUnion is fairly strong. PC numbers are huge from the holidays, factions are trying to make moves, and steps are being taken form all sides to have an enjoyable playing experience.

Our server isn't perfect, and it is never particularly going to be perfect, but I think it's got a few shrubs that need trimming, so to speak.

First: Plots.

QuoteThe server is always inundated with plots and in many ways that's a good thing. The problem however is it's very easy to make a plot. A plot's an idea that zips out, stirs up interest, and then dimishes. The difficulty with maintaining a plot be it DM or PC alike is player interest, a "Plot Capital" if you will. New plot draws eyes.

Amidst the famine there has been factional conflict and plots, and within those plots, more plots. Amidst those plots there are PC plots, there are PC plots within PC plots atop DM plots.

With all this going on and PCs pursuing their own agendas, it's...crippling as a PC. Like floating on a barrel in a monsoon. Some plots are dead-locked without DM involvement. It's a known fact and an accepted one.  The problem is before we can even squish a plot, a new one sparks up, or an old one is dragged back to the limelight.

The plots drag out a length of time, people get involved in them or people ignore them. Then something flashy happens and everyone is drawn eyes to it before slowly drifting away.

It's like... Plot ADD.

"Evil stirs and H'bala comes forth and soon we shall- FAMINE! OH MAN WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE- phew...raising gold...raising gold...fighting in the docks...fighting monsters...What was that about H'bala again? We should look into tha-...DUKE LOST THE GOLD OH MY GOD FAMINE WE ALL GONNA DIE...Docks conflict? Forget the Docks, if we don't get food we're all gonna die! IF WE DONT STOP HBALA WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE...Oh hey is that a Mist Raider ship?"

I hate to use the sheep metaphor but we can only be shepherded so much in one direction. With so many plots open, and few reaching suitable conclusions we just pinball back and forth in circles. And that's just the DM plots. Yes there's a lot of server tastes to cater to, but with so many "Server-shaking" caliber plots, all of which just keep getting layered it gets...obscene to say the least. Add into that PC plots, Faction plots, and otherwise and it's...mind numbing trying to consider where to even get a first start.

The best part of a Plot after all is when you face the hardship and get to the end of the road, you can go "Oh man that was -fun-" and "Oh god, I'm glad that's over with".

Closure is glorious in a setting like EFU.

Second: Factions.

QuoteDM factions are bar none one of the greatest things about EFU. You can get authority, power, and the world opened to your fingertips. The door to enact massive server change and you're given the keys... And then pushed out the door of the moving car, bumping your head on every rock that comes along, screaming and flailing your arms like a lost little kid.

I just want to say..."You'll think of something", "Fix this", and a couple other single line comments thrown in either IC or on the Forums is not something in a DM faction that is heartwarming to hear. In fact it makes skin crawl and blisters on the brain.

There's supposed to be leaders in a group. Guidance. Advice. Wisdom. Support. Allies. Enemies. Plots. Orders.

I know DM time is limited. I know Factioning for a DM is tough. I've been there. The only solution I can think of for the problem is: Promotions.

On the whole PCs like to help each other out, even if it's more of a give and take and I'm the boss do what I say. I think in the entire time I've been a DM and PC on EFU I've seen 3 Zeulisads, 1 Stygian Veteran, and maybe two "Favored Sons".

The reasons PC factions and plots are always "At the center of things", always moving and shaking, always quabbling with one another is simply because They have authority, they make the rules, they may face consequence for their actions but they know they -can- act.

PC factions have leaders. They have lieutenants. They have, on the whole, movers and shakers. DM factions have movers and shakers but it is so much more easy to get hamstrung by a DM.

"I'm gonna make this plot. I did this thing"

"That thing is foolish. You've brought shame upon our faction. You should be embarassed for yourself" - NPC Superior, who approaches you IG.

It makes you want to scream, shout, hollar, punch something and go "THEN TELL ME WHAT TO DO!"

"Look into fixing it". -NPC Superior

"..."

Etc.

Throwing a PC into power fixes all that.

Cutting PCs some slack in moving up the ladder does three things

1) It allows authority. PCs for a lot of things are lost. Without idea how the faction leaders think things should go. "If I do this will the bosses rip my head off?" a PC "Leader" is more available usually than flagging down a DM to ask a silly little question, or hash out plot details with. PC leaders can for better or worse marshal the troops in a certain direction and keep things moving so DMs aren't required.

2) It allows diversity. A PC changes with power. And it changes when dealing with -other- PCs of power. Currying favor with a superior to gain prestige, making friends or enemies with the boss to make conflict, or more.

3) It allows instant rallying. People see a DM Faction PC make a call for a fight and they come. If people see a Veteran DM Faction PC who has other DM Faction initiate PCs rallying to them, it will cause more non-faction PCs to either line up with them, or against them.

That makes politics. That makes conflict. That makes fights. That makes progress.

That makes EFU awesome, and Sandbox.

Yeah that pretty much sums up those two points. I'll reserve most of my comments and discussion for a later time when I'm ...more capable of posting them, but for now I'd like to say the following -

It's quite frustrating as a player to come into this world that is claimed to be a "sandbox" and work from many different angles to build (See: 'How to rock my socks off' post) and create different things only to inevitably be "put back in my place" by NPC superiors.

Plot closure is a major thing and quite honestly there is very little of it on this server. So many things are left open-ended that it becomes confusing and frustrating, especially when they are stacked upon with new plots as RWG mentioned. Just to give some examples of things that are left open and -could- return (for whatever reason), here you go.

- Sharboneth
- Ixpadia
- H'Bala
- Syndri / Nightrisers
- Razul's prohpecy stuff
- Mist raiders?
- Transcendental

All of those were left open-ended or simply make their appearance randomly but fade off again, and that's only the few that I've been involved in personally. I think that pursuing some of these in order to polish them off would certainly make things more...comforting for players and especially for new players trying to figure this place out.

I think most things are unfinished for realistic reasons and faction conflict. The farms aren't finished because of money conflicts based on factions, the mist raiders are kind of tough to get rid of like orcs, and H'bala is not really a problem until she's released, which would come to conflicts between factions once more.
 
Sharboneth and Ixpadia seem better open-ended to me as well; they each give chance of hybrid or spin off groups, and are much more epic than either of them simply falling in battle or conceding as such.
 
I also think most of the open-ended plots would be either bland closed, or unrealistic; the farm lands project wouldn't be closed once they're rebuilt, H'bala would still be a problem released, and the mist raiders could always come back once even if thought destroyed. Little bits and pieces of such over time make far more sense to me, not rushing to the end 'cause it gives instant gratification. =]

Ya know, I was just thinking this same thing a few days ago. TBH I think the DM factions could use more or at least some PC "officers" to keep things going around the server, keep people on track with plot lines and maybe inspire other players to strive for positions of political, social or military leadership.

I don't think that being an unmatched hero should be the only grounds for a promotion. What about the guy who does his job well and shows some promise? I know he didn't take on a battalion on his own but perhaps the added responsibility will have him rise to leadership or crash and burn. Either options could be fun.

My half asleep 2 cents.

For some reason I feel compelled to chime in.

Stuff mentioned by RwG is two of the biggest frustrating factors of EFU I ever faced.

In DM factions, you either had to be pretty lucky (Right time, right place to do something awesome to make NPCs happy) or just live for an incredibly long time to slowly earn kudo points till they had no choice but to promote you. With the generally high turnover rate most factions see, It generally boiled down to being lucky enough to have a DM who wanted to run stuff related to the faction or a general quest w/ opportunity to be awesome. I've always felt it shouldn't be easy to get promoted, but it couldn't hurt to make it somewhat easier.

With the plot point though, generally a lot of those standstills I saw were player generated. H'Bala plot from what I remember, anyone trying was always thwarted by a certain faction, and no one really took any noteworthy steps to try to take that group down. DM stuff usually got swept aside when they saw awesome player stuff, and awesome player stuff usually got swept aside for minor DM stuff w/ chance of DM loot.  My feelings were that the 'big' plots were usually something thrown in when player plots were in the lows.

 Seems to me like DM's almost prefer player plots and letting them guide how shit goes rather than needing to constantly nudge PCs w/ huge handholding railroaded questplots w/ lots of pc deaths and DM loot only to get sucked into a vacuum w/o player plots again.

Just my thoughts.

First i'd just like to say i'm glad Cruzel is posting so people will stop accusing me of being the same person.
 
Second, a few nudges when a group is obviously striving for something but doesn't know exactly how to proceed always makes us feel shiny and special. Simply interacting with an NPC makes you feel important, sometimes.

RwG makes a lot of sense. That being said, I believe that there is a greater purpose to what is happening. I believe that things are happening like they are for a reason.

EfU has a wonderful quality-- you never see it coming. You think you do, but you have no idea. Look at the end times of Sanctuary-- "The shadow dragon is defeated by illithids, oh wait, now it's a SLAVE to illithids? Oh SHIT it's going to fight the... the... oh, no... the APPETITE!"

It's awesome. Sometimes, there are simply things at work far beyond the power and capacities of PC characters. That's okay, in moderation. But my previous example and the present situation are a little different in countless ways. Foremost amongst them is the lack of clarity in the story. We knew big things were happening to prepare for a big shakeup in the server's story back then. A little more story behind what's going on now might just be the resolution to the first dilemma.

As for the second point, I hate to blame either side on this. DMs or PCs, which one is slacking?

Both. Players, take more leadership, do cooler stuff! DMs, take a friggen risk, give a PC a chance as a 1st Honors, Favored, or Hyrsicator and see if they blossom. If not, hell, take it away!

Personally I believe the root of too many plots is the fact there is so many leaders.  I see tons of people setting up factionsand getting one  or two pc's.  A week later the exact same sort of concept might form.  You now have two small groups pushing the same thing.  Essentially my point is that merging small factions with similar agendas creates more RP opportunity, fewer but more worked on plots and clearer conflict.  Not everyone has to be a leader, in fact IMO leader pc's should be fairly uncommon, not everyone is a commanding presence.  Conclusion: Too many chiefs not enough indians.

I disagree pretty strongly with the first section, RWG, but I think a lot of your points in the second section are accurate for certain factions.

In particular, I think you described the Stygian NPC hierarchy very, very well.  It may be a bit overly brutal in terms of having to do a hundred fantastic things to barely outweigh the one thing your superior didn't like (or, if that's not true, it at least seems that way!).

Some factions, however, don't seem that way.  The Sons of Sabuth, for example, are a lot more free and forgiving of even massive, massive mistakes made by their PCs.  

But I definitely agree that the lack of promotions in any faction but the Conclave does hurt a sense of player control.  It does tend to feel like the NPCs are waiting to express stern disapproval (especially in the case of the Stygians).  But maybe that's by design, I'm not sure.

Here's what kills me about EfU:A, and it has always been this way, and I'm not sure how to fix it: character turnover.

If you want to truly get a plot going and see it through to conclusion, you have to have a character who 1) wins PvP 2) attracts people's attention 3) has the support of a DM 4) doesn't get killed off by the first monstrous surprise a DM decides to throw at them 5) can assemble a crew of non-suicidal PCs who are in the same time zone 6) keep everyone alive and happy long enough to get to the end of something.

I've been playing here pretty much constantly for what, five, six years now, and I've never done it. Ever. The closest I've ever come was with the Black Parish (and hats off to Garem, Diz-e, and the others because that was the best fun I've had since the UD). Most of the time, though, key characters will die too early. DMs seem to have this idea that if you aren't constantly beating the Grim Reaper's ass at every turn, your PC isn't interesting enough to be worth their time. In order to achieve something permanent and lasting, you have to jump through so many hoops, each one of them carrying a fairly high percentage of permanent death. It is an incredibly difficult needle to thread. I stopped trying a long time ago.

To my way of thinking, a PC should last about 6 months on average. Maybe even a year. Personally, I'm not capable of coming up with a new original character concept every couple of weeks like some people seem to do.

I just wish people would take more time with their PCs. Some of you (and I'm looking straight at you, OP) must have no idea how much of other people's time you waste when you just toss your characters off a cliff, whether metaphorically or literally. It makes it impossible to build anything interesting that doesn't involve the use of overwhelming force, which, by its nature, leaves a mess of destruction in its wake.

As I see it, character turnover is the blessing and curse of EfU -- but it is far more blessing than curse. Having played on a server without permadeath, all I can say is that assured immortality for a character does not exactly promote good RP.

But nonetheless, yes, the turnover can be a problem, too. Mind you, one factor that increases the turnover is frustration factor. It takes a good deal of patience to reach level 8 or 9 and a single unlucky death can spoil days or even weeks of effort in that direction. Moreover, the frustration is increased when it is two or three instances of bad luck hamstringing a character. Having had Solace go from level 9 to 4 in two days taught me just how brutal that can be. I suspect that this kind of frustration causes premature turnover as players lose patience but I am not sure how to deal with it. Possibly there could be some sort of mitigation like reduced XP loss for second and third deaths in a short time but that is more a topic for DMs than players to discuss.

Admittedly more player patience could help here, too. I managed to make my two first mains last for a fairly long time, and so far I have tried to avoid deliberate 'suicide.' When Solace was executed, she had basically painted herself into a corner and it was the logical end for her at the time, I felt. Deirdre tried a very risky gamble -- much like the Duke -- and paid for it when she lost. Ulfrin was killed in PvP action, ironically due to being extremely vulnerable by repeated PvE deaths. So yes, there is a high turnover even if you do stay patient, but it is not all PvP-caused; sometimes your characters just take a dangerous gamble which is in character for them and then pay for it if it fails.

PCs in positions of authority: I can see the advantage of advancing players deemed responsible to such positions and the difficulties in balancing 'earning' the position with the demand for players in such roles. There could be different ways of handling this. One way might be to simply copy NPCs of importance into player accounts of players deemed worthy to be sort of 'semi-DMs' for the server, or possibly retired DMs that still want to play. But again this is a DM issue and all I am doing is giving an example of a possible solution; mine need not be the best or even good.

A problem with turnover: once a character gets close to reaching a position of authority, it also becomes a target. Gunslinger syndrome sets in: newer characters eager to make a name for themselves try for them, and others seeing them as 'rivals' attempt to have them rubbed out. This is only natural and may even be a good thing, but it is something to be aware of.

All in all, I feel some good points and counterpoints have been raised here. It's been fascinating to read this thread.

~tOH.

Great thread. Keep it coming.

Ugh, gunslinger syndrome. Everyone see's you rollin, they be hatin. Why you gotta be hatin?

My key annoyance with efu is the character turnover rate. To me it seems like some players purposely set out to end another pc from the get go as a way to jump into the limelight and become noticed.
I think some players need to take a step back and think about plot progressions and the time and energy players have put into characters before full looting/full deathing. Granted saying goodbye to a long time feud and knowing when your character’s limit has been reached is important. But at the same time, you need to allow feuds to grow, not just from pvp, but other more meaningful goals.

As for faction promotions.

I am playing my first major faction pc, a lot of people have asked me why Red hasn’t been promoted. To me its very simple, at the start Red spent a lot of time face in the dirt, I have been rescued numerous times by Son NPCs.  I look at the one favoured son I did know, Karida. And see a pc who was hunted by gank squads, a pc who was feared hated and respected. I look at what I’ve achieved and would not want to be classed as on the same par as that pc. I don’t feel ive done anything remotely as badass.
A promotion to me is something that shouldn’t be easy, something that shouldn’t be expected. It’s a title that comes with it a huge reputation and not only that a responsibility to not just go out without a bang.
When I look at the pcs I have met that have been promoted in the conclave, I see pc’s that have put enormous amounts of work into things. Ridgeway and Rumpclaw, One of them put a tremendous amount of work into create the tome of the isle.  The other was a dangerous drunk who knew no fear, who held a weapon with high risk high reward.
Devlin and Caius Drayden, do I really need to explain these two?
Bailey Bhon was a pc who knew everything about everyone, I never met her caliphar but one thing about the conclave is you don’t get one part of the duo being any less amazing than the other.

Qadima and Kriel have been kicking ass, Qadima making people more monster than human, Kriel obediently serving and protecting. They travelled the underdark and came back alive.
To me, they all earned promotions. Nothing they did was easy, everything they did came with a risk of death. They are fine examples on how pcs should be, long term, with long term goals. But constantly putting themselves at real risk to enhance the story of their characters.

Yes it may appear the sons and the stygians are without promotions, and it is easy to think that the conclave is the easier path. The truth is, the Sons and the stygians lack direction from the pcs. The sons and the stygians are heavy conflict factions, with a high turn over rate. If you want promoted do something epic and survive.

Quote from: GoblinSapper;215756Ugh, gunslinger syndrome. Everyone see's you rollin, they be hatin. Why you gotta be hatin?

Cus haters gotta hate.

I think RWG is spot on.  nuff Said.

I know it might be slightly off topic, but it is on topic enough I think.

Just wanted to bring up the fact that I think we have had more or a comparable amount of Lords/Ladys of the colony than First Honors.

What RWG and Craig said tbh, also it seems to me Stygians seems to be losing their value. At the moment it is literally stygians vs everyone, with the conclave deciding to act only in the moment. Also with the desperation of the colony and the failure of the Duke, especially by him gambling away all the money the colony had unless something happens soon it will become silly and pointless why the stygians are still in 'power' :s, it could also discourage any attempts made by pcs to see to overthrowing the stygians. Though you dms are much smarter than me and are always miles ahead on this matter ha.

Also when RWG was a dm he saw to creating medals of valor, etc for when a player in a dm faction had done something to benefit the faction. This could still be a good way to reward pcs.

There are good directions and requirements to earning certain promotions. This goes for every faction.

It's frankly that not many have earned them. What I see mostly are Stygians that join and hang around, doing the guarding, snatching some random baddies, but I don't really recall when there was one that actually strived and succeeded in getting anything bigger than that going.

What I am talking about is being proactive and just doing what you want to strive for. How your new situation in faction limits/changes the situation is only a quirk and a challenge for you to figure out.

In Conclave it may have seemed that some earned promotions well and good, but you got to remember that in most cases there have been two instead of one that push and work together, being active and chasing their own goals while making use of the faction resources and allies.

This can all happen in any other faction just as well. It takes one or more guy(s), who have an idea, activity and time (Yes, it usually takes a lot of time but that's just how it is). Then you actually chase this idea, wish, goal and gather what ever you need for it. Materials, allies, steal something, trade something or what ever it is that is required. You either succeed or fail, but atleast you are definitely involving other people and getting a move on. If you succeed, it usually means rewards of equal level to your efforts, if you fail, sometimes it also provides rewards for partial success in terms of materials/friends/allies/knowledge gained.

And just remember, as hard as it may at times be, folks rarely shine alone. They usually get to where they are by involving others and using the help they get.

I'm down for a server changing event. Invasion, huge battle, lets do this.

Quote from: VanillaPudding;215737It's quite frustrating as a player to come into this world that is claimed to be a "sandbox" and work from many different angles to build (See: 'How to rock my socks off' post) and create different things only to inevitably be "put back in my place" by NPC superiors.

What a ridiculous statement.

We as a DM team, if anything, have been guilty of UNDERPLAYING the influence that NPC's should have.  We've let certain PC power-play events transpire when, in reality, the NPC's power base (Stygians, Sharboneths, Order NPC's) might have been utilised by us in order to quell potential changes.

Think - the Inner Pier, the current situation in the Docks, the Order/nature factions.  The dwarves/fellhammer hold.

And as a TL;DR here, is it safe to suggest you could condense everything you said there RwG down to these two statements :

• Can the DM team condense your overarching stories down to a single thread?


• Can promotion within DM factions become quicker, or can the DM team as a whole respond quicker to ideas from the players in said factions?

A lot easier to read.

For the first one - well, no.  It depends on what is happening at the time, and what people wish to pursue.  There are lots of old threads which will never lead anywhere.

For the second - yes.  We should probably promote people quicker than we do, and I'll put it to the team.  I'll look in to it.

x x x Nuke

Well, due to the holidays, I haven't been DM'ing recently. I think ShadowCharlatan is spot on. I think some of you other guys are not really.

Sometimes plots don't get resolved in a timely fashion, sometimes that's deliberate and sometimes not. Believe me I am more aware of anyone of how lazy/flighty a group of dm volunteers can be sometimes. But of -

Quote- Sharboneth
- Ixpadia
- H'Bala
- Syndri / Nightrisers
- Razul's prohpecy stuff
- Mist raiders?
- Transcendental

Sharboneth - resolved.
Ixpadia - resolved.
H'Bala - needs to be freed by PCs
Syndri - resolved (epically)
Nightrisers - a plot to "contain them" occurred and was resolved, but they're a major part of the setting and not going to be permanently taken away easily
Razul - No comment
Mist Raiders - again, kind of a persistent danger and threat...
Transcendental - ???

There are MANY, MANY more plots though. I do think PLOTS need to be looked at in the context of a lengthier period of time, though. It's been all of.... two weeks since the Duke lost his gold. Two weeks is nothing! Especially considering it's been the holidays.

Some other reactions -

From the start you have a lot of authority (within reason) with every faction.

Stygians - They are clearly a faction in trouble. But promotion has never been easy. But although we may not have had many veterans, the way to become a Veteran is clearly spelled out with achievable goals and we've had lots of PCs get various honors (which are like mini-promotions). I agree though that most players aren't really talented or dedicated enough to get full Veteran status.

The Sons of Sabuth - It's definitely hard to become favored son.

Transcendent Conclave - Very easy to get promoted.

--

I do agree and understand what RWG is saying about how, at the moment, it seems like there is an overabundance of threats and dangers. All I can say is to roll with it IC.

Regarding the famine, NPCs are surviving somewhat off of things like rat meat in the sewers, and the whole apparatus of the Dominion is shaken to its core, but it's unreasonable to expect problems to be resolved (one way or another) in a time span of two weeks.

Both agree and disagree. Love the Conclave's promotion system, dislike the Stygian system of appearing to have 2 ranks for PCs, although that's just a personal thing. I wouldn't say promotions as a whole should be made easier, more that the Stygian system with the fact only a few players will ever get promoted may make a player feel that they're all the bottom rung, answering only to NPCs, all the time.

 As for plots, it does feel like in the Underdark a lot of plots (the fire giant, the return of Moander) that were digestible with definitive endings, but a great deal also didn't get ended until the surface or even haven't been ended yet (Etorix, Moander, Six-Fingered Lich bro). I would have to say that as a player I feel like a great deal more of EfUA's plots are of the latter source, though, which makes it feel at times like there is so much going on it's hard to take it all in.

I agree that we as a player base have a huge amount of impact and that the server still retains a very "sandbox" element. Though as Shadow Charlatan excellently put it, there are a whole bunch of us throwing sand around in the said box!
 
The Stygians are a perfect case in point. They are currently at a low ebb, I certainly trust the DM's that they as a faction could go down (and maybe even out) if events went against them, or of course could return to be stronger than ever, and dominate the server.
 
I don't get IG as much as I would like, the only thing I would suggest to aid the various twisting plots is for a few more posts in the Announcements thread by the DM's. A few more tidbits here and there? I appreciate though that such things take time and effort from our volunteers!

Imo change the stygian rank system, having played a stygian for several months I found getting up ranks to really be jumping through hoops.  Other factions seem appropriate and conclave are promoted lots.

For the record, we have in the past discussed lowering the requirements for getting promotions in the Stygian Armada, but ultimately decided that they are appropriate, tough though they may be.

The addition of an intermediate step in both the Sons and Armada could help dispel the helpless feeling of lack of forward progress (I know there are honors, but a new official rank might not hurt either!).

Something like "Stygian Adept", and "Proven Son".  It's fun to feel like you're moving on up the ladder.

Yeah yeah yeah

I like the idea above. My only qualm is really with the Stygian FIRST HONOR.

I really think the way that it is earned is part luck, part timing, and really very little to do with skill or commitment. I've seen pcs play for months and never go up, and pcs do a couple of impressive acts -with other stygians there to see-. and go up in weeks.

I really think this is the only thing in the armada that could use adressing, as for the sons their ranking system is tough, but realistic, its not a military, theres the majority, a few who have really prooven themselves, and three big names. its a gang and that seems about right to me.

Its actually pretty easy to get Favored Son. VP and Equinox did it for example.

Stygian is very hard by design. Well worth it though. Its basically like becoming a Lord in terms of IC influence and power (including ability to decide the outcome of capital criminal cases on a whim), not to mention the dope loot.

Generally, few people are promoted because mediocrity isn't rewarded on EFU and it hopefully never will be. You have to really dedicate yourself, and its good like that.

As for plots, unfinished small ones are fairly common (as Howland mentioned, DMs are volunteers, sometimes they lose interest or get busy IRL etc). I do know for a fact though that when it comes to fundamental, big server plots the DMs always have a plan for those, even if their closure doesn't seem immediate or clear to the playerbase.

About closure and how it feels incomplete is because the DMs want us to complete it.

They want us to try and find ixpadia maybe? Perhaps a stugian has goals to find sharboneth and eliminate them. Who knows what can happen.

Quote from: Nuclear Catastrophe;215771What a ridiculous statement.

Think - the Inner Pier, the current situation in the Docks, the Order/nature factions.  The dwarves/fellhammer hold.

This is part of the problem. No one ever knows how powerful anyone actually is and it fluctuates greatly depending on the DM driving them at the exact moment. We are told they are weakened, starving, this or that, but when they start being tested they are suddenly at full strength and the NPCs of your very own faction nearly begin to vocally support the counter-factions strength!

 Is their force stretched too thin or not? If the Inner Pier matters and the docks control it again, why isn't the fishery booming with business and feeding a ton of people in that area?

QuoteWe as a DM team, if anything, have been guilty of UNDERPLAYING the influence that NPC's should have.  We've let certain PC power-play events transpire when, in reality, the NPC's power base (Stygians, Sharboneths, Order NPC's) might have been utilised by us in order to quell potential changes.

Maybe these NPC power base factions should start resisting the opposition more rather than their own members, or perhaps they should simply start supporting the characters that do make a big impact. We often only see their strength when they are fighting some sort of big movement from a character, but I think that it might be seen a little too rarely in support of a solid character that has made a noticeable dent in the enemy's position.

Stoked to see this blow up so big in such a short time, and mostly stay on topic.

Not denying that it's happened, but incidents where NPCs have shut down members of their faction in the manner that's been described in this thread should please be PM'ed to me (in terms of squashing PC initiative...). I simply can't think of any.

The only time I felt I got jipped on a promotion was in the Armada.  This was before the "Honors System".  Mort was planning to have Belm and Helder  duel for Veteran status.  I geared to take on my superior opponent.  A while went by, then I had to bow out for a couple of months, Helder was killed while I was gone (he was taken over by The Rot), and when I returned the system was in place.  Everything my char had done counted for nothing and I basically had to start from scratch as far as promotions went.

With all that said, I still loved playing my char, and was really never that upset.  I had great fun with Belm, and would play him again as a lowly Infantryman if I could.  Being a Stygian was THAT fun.  Trenada wasn't even the Duke of Ymph yet.

Looking back I can truly say I was fine with never being promoted in the Armada.

QuoteGenerally, few people are promoted because mediocrity isn't rewarded on EFU and it hopefully never will be. You have to really dedicate yourself, and its good like that.

I hope that this is a sentiment purely directed towards faction promotion. Within such a specific and specialized position in the server's story, I do understand.

If that statement is meant more broadly, well, I do not want to play on a server that is so elitist it refuses to reward people who don't qualify for top-tier awesomeness. I don't think that this was the author's intent; if otherwise, that's something worthy of it's own thread.

End derail. Back on topic.

Both sides need to remember that perception is reality. Nobody here is an idiot (don't tell RwG I said that) and the comments on the issue thus far have been well-thought out. Yet, they perceive that this is wrong with the server, or this is totally right.

If things being complained about are problems, be sure that it isn't simply a matter of your perspective. Players see big amounts of a small part of the server, DMs see small amounts of ALL of the server, for example. That is useful to both sides here.

DMs are saying that "don't worry, there are resolutions, or were that you don't know about." Their perspective is clearly better on this issue.

Players are saying, "things in factions are not as they should be, or as we'd like them to be." Their perspective is limited, perhaps, but also very focused. Something must be being misperceived, or something is actually imperfect and worthy of policy change.

?

Considering I said 'promoted' and a major portion of the thread was basically about factional promotions it was very obviously concerning faction promotions. Very unsure how you could imply it might not otherwise be so...

Heaps of (IMO) unworthy people get rewards, from DM quests to DM assistance to DM loot. Simply for bring part of the cohesive entirety that is EFU. If you are a medicore 'regular' you will get rewarded, be it the random DM quest or the secure bonus of longeivity (see, TC).  I don't have any problem with this at all because I know such people will, on the other hand, not get too much support.

--

Perception is not reality. Look the words up. That are diamteric opposites.

Things complained about are 9/10 times not problems, or if they are, they are problems that arise from misinformation.

Players don't see big amounts of all the sever. All they see is what they experience from their own PCs. 100% of everything else is essentially rumor or guesswork.

--

I say this all the time but- all you need to do to truly succeed and be ranked among the 'best' players on EFU is to have a positive attitude and make your PCs while not engaging in speculation/rumors about who has what, what PCs get too much DM attention, or what DMs show favoritism to what players/PCs. If you do any of this you are shit. If you don't you are cool. Doesn't get more basic.

Caddies, you started off by saying certain people are unworthy (presumedly roleplay-wise) and still get rewarded, and then you end your post by saying that to be amongst the 'best', all you have to do is be cool, and not engage in rumors. I am confused.

On topic: I have to say that as a Stygian, I enjoyed the harshness that the NPCs expressed toward the PCs. It makes the faction seem truly elite, your character being a simple rookie amongst battle-hardened veterans. Promotion-wise, I do see merit in having an intermediate rank in the Armada.

Quote from: The Old Hack;215754One way might be to simply copy NPCs of importance into player accounts of players deemed worthy to be sort of 'semi-DMs' for the server, or possibly retired DMs that still want to play. But again this is a DM issue and all I am doing is giving an example of a possible solution; mine need not be the best or even good.
~tOH.

See this is a really good idea, but as Howland said earlier, there isn't anyone dedicated or talented enough to pull that off. I have come across a few people who are simply amazing at this, but i don't think they would have the time to cope with it.


This thread is just like different religeons, each different post containing priceless information and ideas, and i understand people get angry and sub-conciously fire a few insults out there. But i would class myself as a mediocre player, i know i have improved the time i have spent here, other players put me to shame but that doesn't stop me from thriving to do more, and improve myself as i would class this an awsome hobby; Yet its hurtfull to hear people say mediocre players should not be rewarded, even the slightest hint of attention means so much, for example myself and a few others catching a whale, that ment a hell of alot to me, and makes me cherish the server more.

Craig was right in my opinion, when it comes to simple interation and opportunities to shine, thats fine for anyone, but when its the likes of a very important role such as a Veteran or a favoured son, that should be something worth fighting for, someone said earlier 'Actions to promotion, not promotion to then act'.

Personally i think the DM team are doing fine, but then again i am still a new player, as said earlier it is the holidays and alot of people are busy, it has also only been 2 weeks since the last major incident. NC admitted earlier that NPCs are underplayed and so i'm sure they will do something about that, which i myself have noticed they have been.

Sorry if i went off topic at all, but there is my little input.

I know it *might* not have been the initial intention of turning this into an open trial of the Howland and Co. administration of the EFU world. But resorting to opening a topic that brings good (yet highly touchy) points of feedback is akin to starting a manifestation/ small riot in the streets >_> People that dont necessairly have the good intention of the initial manifestation jump in and have their own agenda for voicing their discontent, and reading this without feeling accused of injustice on this and that or what not is quite hard.
 
So while I agree with some of the points and that this sort-of feedback is good, my first reflex is just to be defensive and call out the riot police to qwell it down and I believe the mode of delivery could have been more tactful then bringing this openly and turning it, in all essence and purpose, into a public trial.
 
Just pointing out that private Q&A might be more sensible if your goal is truly constructive criticism rather than just voicing discontent with the administration with all sorts of derailments and personal issues brought out randomly for the ride.
 
TBH, It's all the 2nd wave DMs' fault! They raised the taxes and cut down on the loot. We're just trying to fix this ever since!

Being a mediocre (at best) player who's never been promoted in any faction - granted I've only played a watchman and two Stygians - I have to say that I am quite content with the Armada's rank system just the way it is.

Not to be that guy, but this whole thread feels like a bunch of people wanting the cool stuff and since they can't get it the way it is they want the system changed. It's the "Too many chiefs not enough indians" problem all over again.

We can't all be veterans. Come on people! Be like me! Be ordinary!

Well, to answer what Mort said, I think the DMs do a fantastic job, I enjoy the company of the players, and I vote with my feet. EfU:A gets 100% of my gaming time. My gripes are longstanding and so complex as to be virtually irreconcilable.

I do still wish y'all would slow down a bit, though (PCs, not DMs).

To be honest, sometimes I think character success here is misinterpreted as the only way to become a "great" character. A great character is a character who is very well roleplayed, regardless of prominence, success, faction rank, etc.. They could be an in-game failure in the sense that they fall short of their in-character goals, and yet be amongst the elite in terms of how that character is roleplayed.

A successful character within the hierarchies and factions of the setting is not necessarily a well-roleplayed character (although most probably are well-roleplayed). It's just a character that's been successful in chasing whatever goals the player may have gone after for their character.

There's times I feel that roleplay takes a back seat to chasing goals and success, mostly because EfUA is very difficult and competitive between players. The key is, and should always be, having fun and creating fun for those around you...full stop. The rest is unimportant, but draws too much player attention, which just muddles things up and creates barriers to that fun you're supposed to be having.

Quote from: Listen in Silence;215881Being a mediocre (at best) player who's never been promoted in any faction - granted I've only played a watchman and two Stygians - I have to say that I am quite content with the Armada's rank system just the way it is.

Not to be that guy, but this whole thread feels like a bunch of people wanting the cool stuff and since they can't get it the way it is they want the system changed. It's the "Too many chiefs not enough indians" problem all over again.

We can't all be veterans. Come on people! Be like me! Be ordinary!

Exactly how i feel. Someone said something about small minor factions starting off with similar goals, yet they will never join up because some people just can't stand being in a concept, and not leading it. It doesn't matter how experienced in EFU you are, a new PC is a new PC, just because some people know the server inside out, doesnt mean they should always be the main part of every concept.

I actually quite enjoy being part of something, and not running it myself.

The thing I see is this:

If promotions are gained easily, without putting that effort and requirements they currently present, you may notice that suddenly you have high ranking officers without the responsability they should hold with their power.

Higher ranking also weights the person with greater influence and role in the faction. Lower ranking will come to them, instead of DM's first of all, and on daily matters. After that, they go to the DM's and higher ranking NPC's.

Now should this person be somewhat easy going and not up to their role with their activity/standing it may end up being somewhat let down, not to mention their decisions and what not can have much greater effect than normal foot soldiers.

As much as they are OOC requirements, they are just that much IC requirements to see if that guy is up for the job. It ain't easy, but the position you'd be taking is not one given lightly either.

Players seriously need to stop killing each other -as- frequently and ragequitting/losing interest in their characters and making promotions faster just encourages these things I feel!

I've been doing holiday stuff too, so I'm kinda glad the server isn't careening along at a breakneck pace. <_<

My two cents.

- I dont usually play DM faction PCs so I cant comment on them. I will say that with the current system, once a character reaches a high rank in a faction I respect that character a great deal OOC. They have clearly been rocking out the plot / faction goals / ect.

- In regards to plots, I think one of the neatest factors of EfU is the way plots are resolved. There is nothing neat or tidy about it. Actions have consequences and you see that clearly in EfU. An example: Sabuth was defeated, but her remaining forces took over the Dock. It adds to the immersion factor for myself and gives the server a since of a timeline.

My biggest gripe is that players will start something and then it won't go anywhere because the player who started the idea gets killed. So then we are left with a plot that someone else was working on that just gets dusted under the rug. I realize that I am griping yet have a character that doesn't really do anything... It's just that people will quit the character really quickly. Some don't even last two weeks...

I do not vote with my feet, nor do I strive to receive DM Loot, promotions, or epic plot involvement. Why? Because I am a henchmen, at best. Sub Par for sure.  I enjoy riding the coat tails of great players, and enjoying a really cool Hobby in the process..unfortunately it is a game to me, and rl never allows much more then part time involvement. The server is  DnD online, as it should be. I will not buy the latest iteration of WoW, no matter how many industry professionals tell me it is grand. Instead, I will vote with my wallet, and donate to our fine server. It is the last day of the year, and to see our server flourish into the next decade, I will speak in the loudest terms possible in our consumer age, CASH. I encourage you to do the same. Our DM Staff and player base is unparalleled, regardless of the issues we have, and the story's told easily rival any of the fantasy novels out there.  Howland and Co have managed to do what every MMO out there has attempted and failed, to make a truly dynamic on line role playing universe.  By comparison, all others have failed. So, give, and give generously, and the State of the EFUnion will continue to prosper.  For those of you who cannot, simply have fun, and enjoy your time here. Don't hate, snipe or rumor monger. Your play is your greatest contribution. We need quality players as much as any resource, and I would say our coffers are well full at the moment.

Happy New Year.

One time I died on a DM quest and you are all basically hitlers

Quote from: cmenden;215891Players seriously need to stop killing each other -as- frequently and ragequitting/losing interest in their characters and making promotions faster just encourages these things I feel!

I've been doing holiday stuff too, so I'm kinda glad the server isn't careening along at a breakneck pace. <_<

If a person is the type of player to quit so fast he can't be promoted in the current system then it's probably likely he would never have been promoted in the first place. It's better this way.

---

With regards to critique of caddies comments:

What I think Caddies meant by "unworthy" players getting loot is that in proportion to thier actions sometimes players find themselves with far stronger loot than thier situation merits.

Here's a very crude not to be taken literally example: Let's say player A is a new player or a player who rarely steps up to the mark and is doing something particularly interesting. Now player B is a veteran doing something equally interesting at the same time.

Player A is likely to recieve better loot than player B, even though they merit equal loot.

This is because player A really needs that encouragement. Player B often steps up to the mark and knows the score. He's going to have the advantage of experience over player A so he really doesn't need as much help anyway.

I'll let caddies correct me if I'm totally wrong here.

I personally think this method works fine.

---

In regard to the initial post I think what Mort said sums it up nicely. This may not have been the best forum to incite actual change. Even if change does come of it.

I was holding my breath until Naga commented.

Quite honestly I feel that these accusations are old. Since  Old EFU people  have complained and whined about grand conspiracy theories of DMs controlling the server and stopping players from doing so.  I feel that overall Players are the server weve shaped the server and made it what it is today. The conclave was formed by basically a bunch of proactive players quite honestly.While Dms occasionally spice the server with foes/NPCS all and it all it is the players who rule and decide things.

 
Also this whole concept of "Character Success" is an illusion. A sucsesfull character is one you enjoyed playing. Now from my expierience browsing the Stygian forums, the Sanctuary Watch Forums and the Council forums. I can say by and large the server has always been ruled shaped and controlled by Pcs. We the players rule the server and the DMS just construct and write the story that we th e players have created.

While I agree with a lot of what Mort said, it's not a private issue. It's a public one. Pc's talk about these kind of things near constantly so I thought i'd step up and play whistleblower of sorts to try and coax them out of private IRC channels and PMs. A fair few folks have come forward who talked to me OOCly about these kinda things so for that I say thanks.

EFU is great, and it's one of those things where you've got the time to spend borderline crackhead time into questing, RPing, plotting, and more it simply shines and sparkles and is everything that is great. I wrote the initial post on a cusp of "About to cut back" so I thought it a fair position to try and stir the pot.

In regards to Nuke's comments that it can be reduced to a single plot thread, no. I like it nebulous and I like it mysterious. It's half the fun of plotting.

The problem is, as a Stygian PC I am berated and  bombarded with "OH MY FUCKING GOD WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE AS PCS BECAUSE OF ". Perhaps it was in bad taste to bring those aspects forward but what's done is done.

EFU is spectacular in a lot of ways, but where it lacks is, as I said, DM factions and Plots.

Orders are rare, and when they are given it's usually "This PC has stepped out of bounds, step in and bring them down". It happened in Underdark, it happens now, it's a sort of constant. My initial post was an request, albeit perhaps poorly worded, for a more coherent and flowing means of dealing with PC and NPCs in a DM faction. It really isn't all that "Orchestrated", organized, guided or otherwise. PCs take initiative and either live or get burned by the choices they make.

Support is given in the form of (At best) being able to enhance and enforce a set of laws set forth by a DM but overall the authority is minimal, and the support/backup is ephemeral at best. It still boils down to levels/gear, which while unkind at times, is a staple of any deed and activity in EFU.

I'm glad this discussion brought on a lot of activity and interest, but honestly- DM factions alot need more DM involvement. As an ex-DM I know it's kind of crass to say since I had a lot of enjoyment and fun working with you guys  but it's fact.

IC support is minimal at best and even then scarce, and IC threats are -massive- for every DM faction. Being a Son in the Docks can lead to instant PvP or worse from Dominion PCs. Same with Stygians and the Docks, and the Conclave and Renegades.

As for plots...It's just...damn.

I'm trying to play a game too, but being in a DM faction and all these numerous "Possible crack the Ziggurat with massive death plots" leads to so many distractions and conflict with PCs that there are times logging in seems like a headache worth avoiding than a fun game to play and advance plots along. PCs seek you out at every turn and after a while it's hard to to keep your "Positive spin" going.

It's a game, not a job. Perhaps I've just become jaded over all the stuff involved but...yeah. This probably could do with a Lock.

Plots
I have found that some plots have resolutions but you need to ask around or look for the information.  Some plots should not be resolved too early.  Faerun shattering plots that ended Sanctuary and started Ymph are not to be rushed.  

Factions
I see no problems at the moment.  I have not been part of any major DM Faction, and will deny being part of any DM faction minor or major.  ;)

Other
People enjoy playing differently, let them.  Some like to power-quest and others like to figure out how to feed the worthless population.  Some know how to down potions so they need no healing in a quest and others haven't a clue how to survive.  We learn from mistakes, we learn from others, and we enjoy our time here.  I spent a few years in the Underdark with no special DM loot to speak of, and never complained about it or worried that I was being too mediocre.

Give peace a chance in the year of the bunny rabbit.
Or
Give a piece to a Bunny girl.
It is all the same.

*insert longish, mediating comments here that got axed due to forum time out*

Players, stop assuming. Ask a DM your OOC questions. If they can't answer they'll explain why. Both parties win.

Time is limiting resource. Takes a lot of time to set up plot quests, *Yohannes you awesome, awesome dude you.* and sometimes players lack the IG time to keep a faction going. Sometimes DMs lack the time to push their plot forward the way they want.

Bullet point:

Don't assume.

Ask questions.

DMs can remove time as constraint by running plot furthering mini episodes within scripted quests. (you cut out party formation - easily 30 min, lots of set up time, and foster plot interest in the PCs who didn't know anything about the plot but were along for the ride)

Save the super long quests for when people can get organized in RL to have the time. Spur of the moment 4 hour plot quests are tough on both sides sometimes.

Forgot to add my favorite Seasame Street lesson:

"Communication. Makes it happen."

(-IT- was making cookies at the time. Yes, Cookie Monster was able to make his cookies, and everyone enjoyed them because they communicated successfully.)

Well, fine. You needed to voice it publically for a reason that I see as unnecessary and polarizing people on stuff not linked at all with your request. I still agree that probably now and back in the UD, praises from fellow faction members were rare in comparison to possibly fucking up. The bigger the reputation of the organization (Spellguard), the more easily it was possible to fuck up.
 
It was stressful to play in a faction, back then, for me, it is probably the same for now. You feel you have responsability and it is taxing. A ton of people have told me this before when its their faction PC: "I really enjoyed it, but boy was it stressful!" . It's not necessairly implied, but I suspect it is more in a faction you paint with lots of achievement, etc. And yes, factions definitely augment your responsability as a player and, so in turn, take this game away from just being casual.
 
It becomes a LOT worst with promotions, this stress of responsability. The greater a PC becomes, the more stressful he becomes to play to his player. This is true for PC factions, DM factions and just about every great characters/villains in general on the server that everyone knows about.
 
I think this stress is definitely not pathologic or limited to belonging to a dm faction and that yes, ultimately, it makes the game less casual and more like work. It can also be crazy addictive and I guess that's why most people love this game because it doesnt feel 'casual' at all (yet you still have to keep your zen!). I dont think DMs can correct this feeling with anything they do, even if NPCs were to become all smiles and sugar to PC members.
 

QuotePCs take initiative and either live or get burned by the choices they make.
 
Support is given in the form of (At best) being able to enhance and enforce a set of laws set forth by a DM but overall the authority is minimal, and the support/backup is ephemeral at best. It still boils down to levels/gear, which while unkind at times, is a staple of any deed and activity in EFU.

Giving support outside of equipment / XP is very delicate ... I'd rather have it be rare or limited to certain areas / events as I know that people on the other side of the medal who are receiving support AGAINST them will be quick to vow their discontent.
 
* * *
 
Aside from BoM's request to try an off the duke, that's really the only request of NPC possession that I received during the holidays. >_>
 
Maybe people have stopped trying... but I know I wouldn't have mind to give time to a Shaker and Do'er when there was like 6-10 people logged in and not much going on...
 
I think Beggar is spot on with his : Communicate more, just dont let it fall into harassment.

So, from the Noob corner.
 
I like EfU. This massive plot ADD is fine, by me. Fuck. If I'm not elbow-deep in plot, 90% of the time I am logged in, I think something's wrong. The only reason I want levels is so I'll survive my nefarious scheming. Probably, the hilariously large amount of plottage - PC and DM plottage - is the best part of EfU. This is my opinion. Bear in mind I have been playing for around sixteen days, only.
 
That being said.
 
It is -real fucking easy- to get bombarded with plot. If I acted on every plot that meandered near me, I'm quite sure by now I would have been completely overwhelmed, and probably dead. I haven't been around long enough to see any of them come to fruitation, but I -do- notice PCs die a shit-ton.
 
Look at the docks.
 
SERIOUSLY. When I rolled up Drica, Prince Almshavan was whipping everybody up into a frenzy. Then, mass casualties, then Tambuzi, and now Tambuzi's dead and Hack's on the throne. I can only assume, now that he's there, someone's going to get gunslinger syndrome and pop a medieval cap in him. And then someone's going to cap the capper.
 
I can only imagine what sort of nonsense people could come up with if all of those characters, that just died awesome explosive deaths, had more longevity. I mean, seriously. Almshavan had some serious awesome support behind him. Did he really, really have to die? What would have happened if Tambuzi's player - and then Hack's player - had got behind him? It would be a different server altogether.
 
I really tried to do some banner-waving myself, and recruit some folks for something, but only two folks showed up. So, you know what I did? I hitched my wagon to someone else's train. Trim sails, and survive, as opposed to flaming glorious death.  Became someone else's watchdog, and that's its own sort of fun.
 
So, +1 for 'Too many chiefs, not enough Indians'.

QuoteSo, +1 for 'Too many chiefs, not enough Indians'.

Yes, player egos know no bounds. QFT, and nicely said.

Quote from: The Beggar;216184Yes, player egos know no bounds. QFT, and nicely said.

You're right. We really only ought to have one supreme player character on the server. I nominate me.


...


...what? *looks shifty*

As far as plot ADD, the trick is to only leap at the plots that very much directly involve your PC, and stay borderline for the rest. This tends to help with not being tugged every direction at once.

It's understood that PCs in certain factions are bombarded worse than others, however delegation is your friend. There's nothing wrong with grabbing another PC to do all the legwork and only have them reporting to you. As a matter of fact, I think that's the best way since it gives those PCs importance, and center stage in plots instead of always trying to be front and center yourself.

What I love about EFU:A is how if any player says there is some sort of problem or issue, DMs are quick to tell them how wrong they are instead of maybe listening maybe trying to understand why the playerbase or player feels that way.

LOL

Quote from: The Beggar;216184Yes, player egos know no bounds. QFT, and nicely said.

Playing well without shining is possible. It just doesn't make you stand out.

Quote from: putrid_plum;216652What I love about EFU:A is how if any player says there is some sort of problem or issue, DMs are quick to tell them how wrong they are instead of maybe listening maybe trying to understand why the playerbase or player feels that way.

I hope (and truly believe) that the DM's understand that this is one person's feeling / thoughts... and not the feeling / thoughts of the playerbase in general.
 
Also as a Professional Counselor I am biased... but if you feel this way go play somewhere else, or go do aerobics... exercise is one of the top ways for people to feel better about themselves.
 
Have a Happy New Year people and remember... it's a FREE GAME, run by VOLUNTEERS.

putrid_plum is just being a troll. Ignore!

Well if he wants to play troll he can apply for it like everybody else. And then he can just suck down his FD like a man afterwards. *grumble grumble*

On a slightly more serious note, while the mass of plot may strike some as intimidating, Ghost is right by saying you can pick and choose among what you are most interested in. You don't have to ignore them completely, but if your character is, say, more interested in the conflict between Docks and Dominion than in the famine there is nothing wrong in letting others deal with the famine instead.

Well said Golden Arrow, i would also +1 to that.
But i don't know of any possible way to fix it. I guess some players just can't stand the thought of -not- leading the pack.

Alot of important people have died recently, if they had allied rather, things would be much different on this server, things would be rocking right now; so god damn hard.

This thread is so ranty.

Anyway, while I understand where RWG is coming from, it's important to keep in mind that we have to try to strike a balance in how things are presented in order to make the server enjoyable for as many people as possible.

So, lots of plots means lots of ways that lots of people can be involved. If you're in a major faction, yeah, you're going to be involved in a lot more plots than the average person. Major faction membership is not intended for casual playing, so this is sort of what you're signing up for when you apply.

As for NPC interaction, I haven't been around in awhile so I can't really comment on the current state of that. We could probably stand to be more interactive, though.

Also, as a DM team, we've always been against using NPCs to do a faction PCs dirty work for them. I'm not sure what exactly you're asking for more of in terms of NPC support, though. It's not really clear, and is coming off somewhat selfish and petulant - which makes it seem more like a personal issue you have with your specific PC, which is probably why it was mentioned that you probably could have brought it up privately, in the first place, to see if it was something that could be easily resolved without all this meandering board-vomit.

Cheers!

I miss you guys.

Oh, right. Factions are very ephemeral always have been always will be. That is their nature, because they are represented by a few standing npc that sometimes have text and a few announcements now and then that dictate the overall tone. When I did have time to play, that lack of understanding made it incredibly difficult for my to wrap my head around my factions situation/station. (and I apped into most of them for a day or two)

However, being berated by a faction member ic rarely completely killed one of my ideas, it just made me change the direction. Of course I havent had the time to complete anything (or even log on) in countless months. So my voice doesnt really carry much weight.

I'll end with this: All power outside of combat prowess or the ability to call on combat prowess is illusion, and I really miss you guys. >_>