Is it possible at all to allow /c dispel invis on when a person is rolling recovery. There's nothing more annoying as an mage I find than someone, for example, setting off a trap that insta drops you and because no-one can see you no-one can heal you to help you recover.
I'm against this to be frank, would be awful to lose invisibility causing mobs to spot and kill you.
LiS, he's suggesting to allow a downed player to use /c dispel invis to remove their own invis (which apparently doesn't work if bleeding). Not to *automatically* dispel invis is you are knocked down to Bleeding.
What Egon said. The amount of times I've been downed, try and call for help, only to here "I can't see you" is really annoying. Potions of seeing and see invisibility items are expensive and quite hard to come by and no-one is willing to use one to help a fallen comrade it seems.
They aren't that hard to come by if you buy them off brewers, and if I don't have some on hand for PVP or DM spice, I try to get hold of them ASAP.
TBH the most common issue with bad invis is:
Quote"Oh bugger, surrounded! I know, I shall drink invis, because I am sma..."
*AoO Frenzy, thump*
"Argh help, my comrades!"
*bleeds to death*
"Did Trevor say something? HEY GUYS WHERES TREVOR?"
Being able to dispel your own invis would help. You risk getting shot ofc, but can be healed.
The big problem also is that if you speak while invisi, you will not be heard by your team mates that have lost sight of you for.. some amount of time. I think it's like 10 seconds..
This really seems like a good idea. It's voluntary, after all. I can attest that I have died at least 596539648 times while bleeding invisibly.
It would be great to be able to drink potions while bleeding, but it's meant to represent a comatose dying state.
I understand it's frustrating but it is the risk of remaining invisible or going invisible in battle.
It's one of the few drawbacks of hiding during a quest. Having a dedicated bodyguard usually takes care of that issue.
I'd say it's more a case of
"Oh no, my buffs are running out, I am badly wounded and nobody is healing me right now! Gotta dash!" *drinks Invis* *AoO crit*
rather than
*is a wizard* *hides all quest long, baby*
Get the survivor perk and stabilize more often~~
I recall archers seeing past my invisibility quite blatantly and KO'ing me. (I think this happens when the server is particularly laggy) Quite lame to die in this manner because for some reason Orcan archers could see past the veil. (Note that there's no way they could of used see invisibility potions when this has happened to me)
Yes. The AI does roll listen check and can continue to attack if it successfully detects you. You still get that 50% miss chance, so it's not a bad deal.
It's a known bug with AI as well, the auto attack/follow script does not properly stop when someone goes invisible. I mean I honestly doubt an orc a good 300 feet away is going to hear a mage standing next to a pile of fighters brawling it out. If they were closer then sure but sometimes its just silly. and they will follow you all over the only way to end the bug is actually let the fighter walk up and swing at you in which the auto attack script will naturally end. Same goes for archers. If you do this and they don't stop attacking you then its likely they can hear you as mord said.
Would be great if there was like a perk similar to I forget the feats name but it allows one at 0 and below to take half actions. Too bad NwN is coded to think 0 is out cold..since at 0 yer still able to take half actions..can't count how many times I've hit 0, and then bled from 0 to -10
IIRC the real issue is not with teammates spotting you, but being mechanically unable to apply heals to an invis person? Unless I am thinking of a bug from elsewhere, yes, one should be able to drop invis while in negatives in return for something that should be possible anyway. Heck, I'm reasonably certain you're supposed to be able to pour your own healing potions into an invisible, unconscious person's mouth.
If it's just solely for the purpose "oops, they can't actually find me while unconscious and invis, so I should be able to dispel it," then I don't think we need a change...
Wasn't there also a bug that occasionally makes invis characters seem to be near you, but they're actually somewhere else while the artifact remains? Maybe I'm thinking of that. Or maybe it's related. Eh, whatever. >_>
you can find invisible players by using the spell see invisibility
when the scenario of someone drinks invisibility potion but drops to an attack of opportunity happens, i don't think it's out of the question to use the spell and then help the person
i also wasn't really aware dying unconscious people had the ability to will away their lack of visibility when it suits them
Enemies can continue stabbing you when you're invisible. Anyone can attack you and hit you when you're down, invisible or not. But if you're invisible, some magical force prevents healing magic from working on you, yet archers can nail you from a mile away.
Quote from: Nightshadow;219512Enemies can continue stabbing you when you're invisible. Anyone can attack you and hit you when you're down, invisible or not. But if you're invisible, some magical force prevents healing magic from working on you, yet archers can nail you from a mile away.
You can't be healed when your invisible because the person wouldn't know where to apply the healing on your body to stop the bleeding, where as an archer would just shoot in the general direction hoping to hit you, which is why they have a 50% miss rate.
I think the system is fine and should be left the way it is, i have died this way myself, and although it is frustrating it is well balanced. For the same reason you would not physically be able to dispel something from yourself when unconcious and bleeding to death.
Quote from: SilentSouth;219611You can't be healed when your invisible because the person wouldn't know where to apply the healing on your body[...]
I think we're talking about magical healing, however, which shouldn't need to be applied to a wound, just the person. Assuming what Nightshadow stated was in fact verification of this bug... it should be possible to healing-wand an invisible body. Would be nice if someone could verify what goes on exactly, if it just affects healing kits, as it should, etc.
Anyway; also, not everyone on EfU has a full set of PvP items on them all the time, particularly newer people or more RP/PvE focused characters. This may be a current minority on EfU, but this is not to say, however, that it shouldn't be changed.
It hasn't affected me much in ages, which is likely why I can't even recall how that bug worked. DMs could even just rule "magic healing items need to be applied to wounds here."
On the other hand, death is hard enough, and all this change would do, it seems, is make it a little easier for players who use teamwork to stay alive. I don't think there's a really good argument against such a change, but it's still a minor change and up to the DMs, really.
It's probably not much skin off the backs of any regulars on the forums either way. Unless you happen to party with new players a lot, god forbid we help your wicked soul then.
For what it's worth, most spells need the caster to -see- the target... I've lost a couple of lvls to invisibility deaths, and, well, yes it's tough, but it's part of the spell. Invisibility doesn't protect. It doesn't hide sound or smell or touch. It's just your friendly lvl 2 illusion spell.
As for what's acceptable and what's not: basically if the invisible guy is hit right by your side, you can probably gulp down a seeing brew; if archers shot him way in your back while you're fighting and you have 0 in spot, don't. If an orc warrior is hitting something you're not seeing, duh...
There's lots of grey areas, just use your common sense, and don't metagame it. If you regularly quest with that mage and he's not by your side when the fight ends, look for him. If it's a random crew, chances are he's just not by your side. If he's a known thief, chances are he's looting under stealth. Etc.
The onus is probably more on the dying guy, scared to see Fugue load: don't send tells or party talks shouting for help, or //Bleeds to death.
Players who use teamwork actually don't need to worry about this a lot, as there's a dedicated protector to the backliners. If you really worry, cast seeing of friends, instead of bulls strength ;)
So, what's being said here a lot seems to be "it's alright that mobs can take advantage of bugs, but PCs should throw a millstone around their neck in case dealing with wierd stuff affects RP in a tiny way" Most bleedout under invis deaths I've seen are due to buggy nonsense like Orc Berzerkers never breaking a target locck and hearing you from five times the distance a PC can, or bumps into clumps of 5 enemies and no escape, then AoO on drinking.
Case in point: If I want to inflict a wound with a knife on a dying guy who's invised (because I'm a big ol' troll), I can with a 50% miss chance. If I want to cast Cure Serious Wounds, I can't, even though under Cure is an auto-hit on a friendly target.
What could be useful is allowing Cures to work on a an unseen target, if that's possible.
Then how about you can heal but its also a 50% chance of missing? And that entirely depends on if you can find their body in the first place.
What would peoples thoughts be on that?
SilentSouth, the difficulty from this "feature" was due to a bug or poor implementation in the first place, we don't need to try to maintain that.
Quote from: NWN Official ManualInvisible attacking creatures get a 50% concealment bonus against enemy attacks[...]
Quote from: NWN GrimoireA successful touch attack must first be made when [Cure Light Wounds] is used against undead.
Since it is the touch attack which is subject to miss chance penalty, and there should be no touch attack in the first place, there should be no impediment from invisibility... assuming you know where they are. Edit: Since I just know someone is going to bring up something like 'oh but helpless allies are more like inanimate objects than willing targets,' and it is a good point, here are the rules applicable if we were talking about invisible and helpless
enemies:
Quote from: D20SRDYou can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to "find" the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).
In other words, best case scenario: cure X wounds requires no touch attack on allies. If you know where they are, you should be able to heal at will, regardless of invis. Worst case scenario: you have to spend 6 seconds to 'get a grip' on the invisible person. After this you can heal at will, regardless of invis.
"Alt" solution: Add something like /c mark [name]
Quote from: D20SRDOne could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour fell off or blew away).
The command only works on adjacent, unconscious and invisible targets. After 6 seconds it removes any invis effects they have along with an emote "Healerbob marks Stumpyjoe's position."
I see where your coming from Grendel, i just don't think it is necassary. You see although it may be mechanically wrong, as you said you 'should' be able to heal invis PCs, i think it is mainly a balancing issue we are looking at here.
As people have said, it is one of the risks needed to be taken in order to invis quest, people would not worry or care about going invis through entire quests and perhaps not even helping if this where so. It would take an aspect of danger away from EFU which is not what we want, or need. This server is supposed to be deadly and we should keep it that way.
The mark idea i don't think would work either, it would just be like a lesser, 'free' version of seeing potions, and if you mark you ally with flour, then everyone, and anything will also be able to see him/her.
Don't get me wrong i understand where you are coming from, i just think it should be left the way it is IMO.
A death due to poor implementation of rules is one of the more frustrating types of death in my opinion. If we can elimate a little bit of that, good riddance. And I'm fairly sure fixing no-heal invisibility probably won't make EfU ez-mode.
;)