Since I'm playing a Dock PC who is mostly reviled outside the area, I'm spending a lot of time in my favorite district of the server lately.
I'd just thought I'd comment on something I'm noticing.
Crime in the docks is rather remarkably rare. Sure if a DM is free there's a beatdown or two, maybe some scuffles over arguments, but things for the most part are kinda...calm. Partially due to the NPC presence needing a DM and one isn't always around. (Not a debate about that, don't worry). It's that most crime things with a chance to be crimes, are -outside the doccks-, without DM aid.
Drunk merchants? Outside the Docks.
Pickpocketable NPCs? Mostly outside the docks.
One thing I'd like to kinda see to fix this would be randomly spawned around the docks:
Extortionable NPC merchant spawns in random areas of the Docks that work like the Pickpocketable NPCs in the Dominion, with a little "Get the fuck out of here before I crack your skull" if failed would be cool, and add more to the vibe.
Second: The Narrows are always talked about like a murderous sideshow where even the grizzled dock folk tend to shy away from. Often times PCs will comment about it being full of "Nutjobs" and the "Kinda place you go to get stabbed". Could more things be done in or around there?
Most PCs -do- avoid it because of the RP factor of it being scary, but also because it's mostly out of the way and there's not much there.
Anyone else got some ideas?
Take the step that has long been needed, free PvP in the docks. Lower was ruined, not the docks. Give it another try!
Another thing a PC suggested to me was maybe scripted sea-side invasions. There used to be the DM ran kobold attacks, or could be some Mist Raiders, or other things that attacked the Reef-beach area just beyond the Docks.
Most of the Orc/Goblin raids on the gates have high loyalist presence due to the stygian NPCs there, and not a lot of Dockfolk rush to help in those events.
Crime is mostly unrepresented in the NPC population.
Due to the current nature of the server most dockfolk PCs band together to avoid getting smothered by loyalist DOGS.
I have to agree with RwG. But I think a problem lies in how far you can really represent a certain atmosphere. Take the Narrows; The Docks already is a huge area, and the Narrows is a pretty big part of it. But no matter how 'deep' into the Narrows you go, you can always get out of it in 15 seconds time, running. It's not enough to get any 'I'm a white overseas tourist stuck in the middle of Harlem at 10 PM' feel. And I don't think it's an easy way to fix that feel, other than creating a new area. The current Docks area is used to its maximum potential. Any more and it'd probably break. So perhaps that's what we need, a 2nd area for the Docks? Perhaps with free PVP there, and not in the 'sea-side' Docks.
Well, you're in a peaceful time for the docks, but there was like a big brawl daily with chases and mugging happening a lot before you became a Son.
People in the docks mistrust eachothers more than they mistrust outsiders, it's the nature of anarchy. There should 'always' be some infighting.
What could be cool... is a "drunk sailor" NPC with the same AI as Boars. so if you wander too close or if they have a mind they may well take a swing at you, but will lose interest if you whack them.
Things like that or similar could be cool, when the DM's have time.
I think people need to adjust their vision of what a high crime rate entails.
For example, I like to see the Narrows not as a place where there are lots of criminals and walking in there is certain to get you mugged, but as a slum, where all the really really poor live, together with addicts, lunatics and just plain unsavory folk, where, because of that fact, you run a very real chance of getting mugged, if only, say, 5%.
Granted, as of right now the chance is virtually zero, but you forget that PCs are not exactly easy targets. Most of them are armed to the teeth and certain to kill you if you try anything. Seeing as there are plenty of places to hide away when they do show up, I wouldn't expect to run into any bandits as a PC.
Now the ruins of course have even fewer controlling factors (no claimstakers, no guards, no people), so it stands to reason the bandits there would be more numerous and more bold (or at the least better equipped).
The docks as mort said has indeed entered a calm patch, I dont expect it to stay like that.
The narrows to me are the dark gritty part of the docks, a place where when you walk you do so because A) You have to, B) Your stupid. C) Your that badass you just dont care, then you end up with a knife in your gut.
It would be nice to see pc's striving to do more in the narrows, and perhaps a small mini area within the narrows could achieve that.
Quote from: Craig210;219839It would be nice to see pc's striving to do more in the narrows, and perhaps a small mini area within the narrows could achieve that.
I agree; mostly because I suggested it before! I'm a sucker for my own ideas. Free PVP there too, please?
Oh, I indeed know I have Mort. And it's always cyclical and stuff like that. And yeah there's always the mistrust and scuffles, Breston.
Coldburn's idea is kinda interesting though. Another, maybe smaller area of Nebdezzdos Alleyways that is known dock territory and called "The Narrows" where the Narrows can truly flourish and be darker than the other alleys using a similar template, more sinister, with a few NPCs but given the same "These NPCs don't affect PvP" like the kid beggars to allow PvP to happen.
Then again I don't know about the size of the server issue, and how much bloat another area would cause.
IMO the sons need to start acting like a gang, and start beating people up and robbing them like a.. well like a gang.
Creating extra areas won't solve the 'problem' of a lack of Docks crime. It can only be solved by players willing to take real gambles with their PCs by actually conducting crimes.
Quote from: BRESTON;219752Due to the current nature of the server most dockfolk PCs band together to avoid getting smothered by loyalist DOGS.
Yeah, infighting's the sort of luxury you can afford when the rest of the server isn't trying to steamroll you. You see that more when there's plenty of Docks PCs vying for power than when there's a lot of Dominion players that keep going after anyone/anything prominent in the Docks.
My biggest suggestion would be to get those specialist shops (Touch of the Crone and the bard one) open. Give more reasons for non-docks PCs to risk going in there. Also, to put more stuff in those alleyways between the Squat and the Docks. They could esily expand into a "new narrows".
I don't see how a powerful Loyalist scene over in the Dominion necessitates peaceful intra-Docks affairs...
Like, if you are playing a criminal kingpin trying to start a new and dominant gang, or a thief guildmaster trying to monopolize crime, or just a common cutthroat or thug, you can still beat up/rob people inside the Docks safely without exposing yourself to Loyalists (who cant/wont enter the Docks).
(who cant/wont enter the Docks)
Not without a DM you mean Caddies, it's been done!
I agree with Caddies on this, no matter how big a threat there will always be one guy who thinks "Hey while they are busy fighting the loyalists I'll just go and take over/make a nice profit". In the face of adversity people either pull together or go off the wall and just beat on each other.
I will throw my two cents into this, I played in Lower quite a bit in EfU and I think that some of the attitudes there have carried over to EfU:A. In EfU after the Tigereyes died there was no NPC force to stop groups of Upper PCs from raiding lower and then retreating to the protection of the Watch. The only way the Lower PCs could survive was band together. A bit of that has carried over into the Docks in my opinion. When there are no large gangs, everyone tends to band together. When large gangs form, they usually battle it out as was pointed out a above.
Ok so the narrows is the place INSIDE the docks that has NPCs like flogged black and barrow wright and the prositutes right?
You could implement scripted merchants you could extort/bribe, NPCs that turn hostile to you and all that fancy stuff you can do with NPCs but where does it leave you? It only emphasizes actions that can be done with NPCs and lessening the creativity PC-PC wise. I am all for some way to give players fund to further their PC-PC ambitions, even did it myself with the drunken tradesmen on a character of mine, but when it comes down to it there's so many opting instead for easy profits for self-gain. Not utilizing them for plots/hiring others. I fear if we implemented something akin to that in the Narrows, it'd be the same.
Another thing about creating thugs that attack you or similar, this doesn't necessarily make the area they are in more attractive for people to enter. It could very well be the complete opposite. You also have to be careful - this in regards to invasions too - that there are so many areas in the Docks to enter and leave. If you have hostile NPCs entering a NPC or PC populated area, they'll spread out and eventually can be just on the opposite side of a transition that all other times are safe to go through. Not all PCs or NPCs are able to handle the hostile creatures.
EFU is all about player-player activity. You cannot chase or shake down NPCs like you can PCs. I am all for suggestions to help you guys rock out alongside each other but no amount of implemented and scripted features really measure up to the stuff you guys can embark upon yourselves. So be creative. A hammer is an excellent tool to hit a nail but is useless if there's no hand to hold it.
Citywide or district related events could be something to look into, but feel free to suggest what you guys think can be good.
There is nothing wrong about informing a DM what you want to do - be it in the Docks or otherwise - and what you want to create, and ask for ideas and ways to make it happen. Or just steadily inform us what you are working towards. This way you can affect the place you reside, or get support/animosity from the NPCs there to continue what you are working on alongside others.