I know its probably been reported to death, but the spell Knock seems to never do anything. It is supposed to open any non-key lock, yet never once in the numerous times that I've tried it has it worked for me.
*sighs*
I believe the answer is we don't want wizards to be able to do things rogues can once in a quest. Maybe i'm mistaken. Keep to buffs.
I've never got it to work on a chest, but I have successfully used it to crack the locked door in Pestilent Scourge many times.
I too would like to hear about this one. I've contemplated taking the knock spell and won't waste my time and $$ if it has effectively been nerfed. The idea that it "disses" rogues is kind of weak since:
A) There's not always a rogue around
B) The rogue may not have a high enough open locks score
C) Knock will always effectively be limited based on the number of times the mage has it memorized - it is definitely a one trick pony whereas a more classic second level slot filled with Bull's will give you much more bang for your buck.
Honestly, I'd hope the spell will unlock any door that a rogue can unlock with Open Locks. If it isn't working that way, it'll make me very sad.
Quote from: Oroborous;95967Honestly, I'd hope the spell will unlock any door that a rogue can unlock with Open Locks. If it isn't working that way, it'll make me very sad.
"This spell will not unlock anything that as marked as plot"
In order to make them unsmashable, they probably mark most doors they want you to pick instead of smash, as plot. So knock will not work! I have never looked at the script for this spell, so I don't know if this could be effectively nerfed to make it more useful?
If it could open any lock that a rogue could, a wizard need only scribe a few scrolls to have on hand, and rogues would no longer be needed. As I frequently play rogues, this would make me sad.
You still need someone to deal with traps, imo.
I think you could make knock useful without stepping on rogue toes too much with some changes to knock. You could make it like a Dispel roll, for instance (1d20+level), where the lock opens if you beat the DC (or just 20+level, since rogues usually get to take 20 on their check, and the rogue with good Dex and a few ranks will probably still have a higher bonus than casters). The point is that if you can alter knock's script, you could probably find some middle ground between "almost totally useless" and "makes the open lock skill superfluous."
Xorisai, I like that suggestion a lot, and second it.
:D
I agree with Xorisai's suggestion, if it's script-able.
I breifly looked at the spell script.
It's possible to do this scriptwise, with minimal effort.
I remember deciding this wasn't possible. I don't remember why I decided this wasn't possible.
Quote from: Snoteye;96101I remember deciding this wasn't possible. I don't remember why I decided this wasn't possible.
Heh. That is possibly the silliest response I've ever seen a DM give. Kudos to you, Snoteye!
Pretty sure I've done worse!
Quote from: JackOfSwords;96018If it could open any lock that a rogue could, a wizard need only scribe a few scrolls to have on hand, and rogues would no longer be needed.
Pfft. My favourite rogue to have around on a tough quest was Foop, who did way more than open locks. For starters, scouting. When trying to do Jergal Mortuary on low supplied characters, knowing exactly how many spitters and mages were there and where they were was a huge help. Also twice going stealth, looting all the boss chests and evacuating a dead PC.
As a thought though, perhaps it would be possible to instead of the standard 150 foot AoE opening, to give one target a 1round/level +10 skill bonus to the Open Lock skill? that would make it good for mages, but actually BETTER to cast on a rogue! A huge change to effect, but could solve the issue.
I am pretty sure this would be possible, and be very small - like, 6-10 lines of code. I'll look into it in more detail later, but tbh i see no reason whatsoever (looking at the default knock script) why an easy addition could not be made.
Edit: Egon beat me to the post. This was in response to Snoteye.
In response to Egon; Easy and possible to add, but up to DM's if they want it.
I'm not saying an easy addition can't be made. I'm saying this isn't possible. It's design related, but I don't remember how and don't have time to check.
As a slight tangent, Knock is nerfed to give lockpickers something to do, buuut....
Using it either takes up a spellslot for buffing/fireballs/etc or requires 100gps worth of scroll. I thought that was the Wizard way. Situational or expensive. And, a Rogue UMDing a Knock Scroll until it works would make a handy backup on high DC locks when you don't have a Wizard or good lockpicks.
Ironically, my own wizard actually has Open Lock ranks, even though his Familiar can cast Knock 1/day, *because* Knock is so pants. With a Grace spell/potion and a set of picks, he stands a chance of opening some of the weaker locks. In fact he got the idea off another player who mentioned he'd done the same.
Quote from: Snoteye;96113I'm not saying an easy addition can't be made. I'm saying this isn't possible. It's design related, but I don't remember how and don't have time to check.
The only design issue I can see at a glance, would be setting the knock DC for each individual door, and the plot flag. The plot flag is easily able to be worked around, and the DC is easy to set on any door which has an open lock DC to begin with. I will look into it later, and I will either see the flaw you mentioned during testing, or it will work and I will once more prove my complete awesomeness, imo.