It makes more sense and should make things more interesting as well. Hard imagining someone hopping around and dodging fireballs in a superheavy armor set. Which is fairly common, since Fighter/Rogues is something very common out there
Yes please. Anything to weaken this atrociously hilarious build
Pretty good suggestion, yes.
sounds like a damn good idea to me!
100% agreed.
Allow it in chainmail still? Just heavy armor I would say. Keeping it still in medium and the like.
Anything we can do to remove any benefits rogues still offer is a good idea in my book.
Maybe we can add evasion to characters who are wearing very, very light armor as well, such as wizard robes.
Excuse me, but are we talking realism or play balance here? Because not only am I iffy about invoking 'realism' in a fantasy game, but it is actually possible to dive for cover or drop flat or jump out of the way fast while wearing heavy armour -- you just get tired faster.
If it is a matter of play balance, it's another matter. If you think the combination of plate mail and evasion is an unreasonably powerful advantage, then by all means kill it. Just remember that for every action there is a reaction when it comes to balance; when you take this away from tank characters you also make evoker mages and the like more powerful.
Lastly, the example of the plate tank with evasion does not strike me as all that powerful. In many cases his Reflex save will be a long way from epic and Evasion is only an advantage when you make the saving throw.
Anything we do to make pure rogues more viable and preferable to a multiclass is a good thing.
Quote from: Spiffy Has;232766Anything we do to make pure rogues more viable and preferable to a multiclass is a good thing.
Then maybe you should suggest something that makes pure rogues more viable instead of buffing evokers.
Rogues aren't going to be any more viable with this in effect, or not. The multiclassing happens because the classes abilities are just insanely synergistic with many other classes. However the build that come to mind here is Rogue 3/Fighter x which is terribly destructive for many many reasons, ditching Evasion is hardly going to alter the strength of this combination.
That said, I'm all for removing Evasion from Heavy Armors. The classes that benefit from this, are already benefiting from the best skill selection available and powerhouse "threat" damage. After having just played a Fighter/Rogue, and with current Fighter I can tell you right now the damage difference is insane. It would be fair to revoke the evasion while in these armors.
Rogue/Fighter isn't really OP. There's plenty of disadvantages to this build. The saves tend to be fairly meh and the will is non-existant. Evasion only really helps -if- the save is made, as Old Hack said.
Do a bunch of dudes rolling out of explosions in full plate make sense? No, but we're heroes dudes, get over it.
I see no reason for the change even if it holds some sort of realistic value, something no one should really care about in a fantasy world anyway. Swinging the nerf bat around at multiclasses to try and fix a mechanically inept class (for this world, level range, ect) isn't going to fix anything and is more likely to start a bad trend than offer anything of worth.
I'll also mention that you can do the same build in chain armor and do everything identical to your heavily armored friend yet with more AC.
This is true.
Quote from: The Old Hack;232765... invoking 'realism' in a fantasy game...
Quote from: VanillaPudding;232778I see no reason for the change even if it holds some sort of realistic value, something no one should really care about in a fantasy world anyway...
I don't buy this "Realistic in a fantasy game" thing. Of course we don't want it to be just like reality, for many reasons, one of them being that it's just a game, and other that it's impossible. But many things that bring this fantastic world closer to reality, brings flavor and immersion. Like hitting some hard things with sharp weapons and getting them dull having -1 dmg with them (it's scripted in EFU I think, I've seen that happening), the blackout thing making you see a black screen, and many other things.
As for balance among classes, it's been made pretty clear that balance is not exactly the main goal in EFU, and some will eventually be weaker then others.
Well, the suggestion simply makes things make more sense, as I stated, if it's desired or not, that will be up to the DMs, I'm sure it won't be a big deal anyway, implemented or not.
All this does is give rediculously more power to wizards. Really a wizard can do serious damage without his foe making a single reflex save LOL.
Should the Dodge feat also be disabled? After all, by following the same logic as most of the comments, it wouldn't be realistic for someone in heavy armor to duck underneath a sword swing (although plate does allow +1 dex still, meaning you can move with the grace of elves while wearing it). Even in plate you are allowed above average dexterity, so I don't personally see a problem with someone who is trained and experienced in evading harmful effects being able to use their expertise if they do happen to make the saving throw against a save they get low progression versus.
We are heroic adventurer characters. Our abilities are higher than common people, and our skills and capabilities (be they supernatural or trained) set us above what is normal.
no way jose! then what happens to people with the balls to play pure rogues who have the same equipment proficiencies as a fighter? I can see disabling it for a multiclass, but pure rogues should have evasion no matter what armor they wear.
Dodge could mean many things, really. It gives a +1 AC bonus to the character you're facing so it could just be speed of movement in any armor. That applies to parrying, raising a shield swiftly, using proper footwork, etc..
Of course, this is a tangent. As far as the Evasion thing goes, I think it's a good idea on the surface, although I do agree that the danger is it makes wizards just that little bit more powerful when facing very specific PCs.
First make full plates readily available. 3500 gold for what is effectively 1 ac compared to the easily accessable meduim armor class +1 armors that virtually rain from the sky for non full plate classes.
Then I'd be happy for the loss of evasion in heavy armor.
This has been discussed extensively at the past, and previously was decided to be technically too complex to implement. If a tech DM happens to see this and think they would know a good way to do it, we can discuss it internally I suppose. Although I'm not really sold on the idea myself. High-AC chainshirt builds are already good enough!
Locked for now, lest another epic debate rage forth....