Right red knight faction is growing and where doing our little drills usually after this point we get caught up in pvp with rival factions and such, well from what i have seen of other factions in my time, now i have read the pvp rules and guidelines sections even that post of "pc are not pump kins"but where not interested in miaming people if we pvp we want to kill and make sure it sticks, soo what i want to go over is the following, since we fight for perma death.
-Ambushes
-Assassinations
Any tips on doing these do would be great as we dont want seem like a bunch of greifers, mean where all here to enjoy our self s right?
I think approaching every pvp situation with a mind that it results in FD death yields very little fun for either side.
I would suggest that you work on building rivalry and story before you aimlessly kill off characters that you would have no real reason, aside from glory hunting in some respect, to finish off altogether.
Your mileage may vary, but I am more of a mind that pvp should only result in FD death when it ends a character in a way that would be fitting, and would gain your character some merit of satisfaction; notoriety, progressing goals etc.
I think approaching every pvp situation with a mind that it results in FD death yields very little fun for either side.
I would suggest that you work on building rivalry and story before you aimlessly kill off characters that you would have no real reason, aside from glory hunting in some respect, to finish off altogether.
Your mileage may vary, but I am more of a mind that pvp should only result in FD death when it ends a character in a way that would be fitting, and would gain your character some merit of satisfaction; notoriety, progressing goals etc.
Obviously you haven't read the PvP guidelines and rules enough. I suggest you re-read them!
No faction's goal in any conflict should simply be to FD every player in every conflict.
Build rivalry, build a story.
so long as there is reason
seems fair
I think it will be best when you play IC, avoid too much of out of character stuff and do it all to chase a goal, then it goes as it goes.
Simply remember that if you go at people, always be prepared to be struck back. Your story might end up short if you're out to kill people, and they have friends that don't like you doing it.
After reading of your intent I'd be so tempted to make my goal your extinction.
Ugh disgusting...
This is basically a massively retarded post in tons of ways. I am sure Howland will have more to say on the matter than I do.
You really shouldn't be setting out with the express purpose of killing everyone you PvP with. That is an extremely unhealthy attitude - one that we do not want to become commonplace on EfU and one that is definitely not approved of by the DM team or the playerbase alike.
o.o
Sorry guys, Freya's not so great with communication -.- I think he was just wanting to know the specifics on going about an assassination should the need arise..
Think of EfU:A as a massive voluntary contribution mechanism experiment.
Each individual can choose to focus their efforts on themselves, with a clear immediate payoff, or they can focus their efforts outwards, with positive externalities for all others involved.
Every player's "efficient" choice may be to worry only for themselves, but when in good faith people all focus their efforts on entertaining others, you get a tremendous echo chamber of excitement that dwarfs what could have been from insular play.
Point is, whether it's "fair" or not is necessary but not sufficient, as that really only determines whether it sits well with you and whether you face consequences.
The question is whether any specific type of behavior provides positive externalities that will hopefully elicit a similar response from all!
Seems a lot of people may be struggling with this idea. I think I'll make a post.
Without going into the mentality of FDing as a first response, I'll try to explain what the DM staff looks for when dealing with ambushes and assasinations. In assasinations we prefer that they're stylish. FDing without a word is not stylish and is very much frowned upon. Instead subdual with a decent amount of roleplay before the kill is preferred. If not, then some sort of roleplay during the fight itself needs to be seen to be considered stylish. For ambushes from stealth and invisibility, personally I don't consider it stylish unless the odds are against you of at least 2 to 1 or more, but that varies from DM to DM. A level difference in which you are a lower level than your target and using stealth or invisibility is also acceptable. It also depends on your class, concept, and context. The main guideline to this is, how would you want someone to treat your PC?
If I may make a comment on assassinations. They should only come as a result of conflicting goals, rivalry, and a measure of conflict that warrants an FD from the person hiring the assassin. Certainly, the assassin themselves may have had no part in the conflict previous to taking the contract on their target, but the character who hires the assassin most certainly should have a good reason for it. The assassin is essentially just the tool used to do the FDing, but all the same reasons for it that would create the situation should be in place as they are with any other FD.
Actually, wouldn't it also be fair enough to use assassins to hand out warnings? Hire an assassin and tell him, "I don't want this dude dead. I just want him to know that he could have been dead, if I'd just wanted him to be." Or if not an assassin, hired muscle.
I mean, the RL equivalent would be some gangster annoyed at someone getting in the way or maybe not repaying what he owed. Scaring the mark might get him off your case or make him pay what he owes where killing him might trigger an investigation you don't want and certainly won't get you any money owed back.
I generally find having rivals and enemies to be fun. If your idea is to kill every pc you fight maybe you shouldn't engage in pvp or nefarious activity because unwarranted killing breeds hard feelings. The I don't wanna have enemies so I'm gunna fd everyone attitude is very frowned upon by everyone. If your enemies live the encounter they will be your personal potion resupplier if they keep attacking you- so make them regret attacking you by robbing them
The most important thing to remember is, there is another person behind the PCs, consider how much time and effort they have put into their character, they may have needed to write an application and they have sused out a background and a character, they've also put hours of play time into that character.
I think some players, you being one of them General-shadow should read this part of the rules section, perhaps several times.
- Is it best to subdual, to subdual-loot, or to FD (full damage) kill?
Has the character (and player) had opportunities to avoid being FD'ed if they've lost? Is the rivalry or conflict sufficient cause that you think looting or FD'ing is justified? If the situation was reversed, and you were playing your character's opponent, would you feel the same way? Has the story progressed to a point where a FD death would be appropriate? Please note: often the answer is yes, sometimes in EFUA it's just time for FD time.
rivalry is the thing these days. Betrayal rules as well.
When going into PVP FD should be a last resort and the last thing on your mind. If your character is like an actual assasain then it actually makes sense to be prepared for FD in every fight.
The most important thing I can say is this: DMs notice.
They notice hard and fast who FDs on a whim, who FDs on judgement calls, and who rarely FDs to keep the story alive. There are times where FDing is the only thing that makes sense. Sending someone away would just be foolish.
The thing is sending someone away is the most proactive thing you can do on EFU. Sure, FDing someone allows you their fat loot and more, but if you send someone away they're gonna round up a posse and try to hunt you down.
That makes you proactive, that makes the server more lively, even if it more likely gets you killed than not. My best advice on the matter is this, as witnessed once by a great PvP display- If you down seven PCs, and most of them are emoting how beaten and hurt they are, maybe a few swearing revenge, or what have you, that's cool.
If there's one PC who just won't stop, refuses to acknowledge defeat, and spends his entire time subdued monologing about how fucked you are, how dead you are once he comes back, how the world will know forever how foolish you were for allowing him to live after the Stygians get ahold of you-
Sure it's always fun to laugh and go "Bring it on" and walk off with some gear, which some PCs do in leaving everyone alive.
The moral of the story is try to be humble if you're humbled. Some PCs see those "OH MAN YOU SO DEAD" and go "Well. He's gonna come back and kill me. Can't have that loose end" [Dude is FD'd]
Other times ti's perfectly IC to give one of those rants so long as you know you'll likely die from it. A fanatical cleric going "My god will see you dead blah blah blah blah blah" is cool and good RP and expected, but also a good ending to a PC.
Quote from: Random_White_Guy;235389There are times where FDing is the only thing that makes sense. Sending someone away would just be foolish.
Example: If you have just downed someone claiming to be the Ultimate Herald of Ultimate H'balaness, checked her/his bag and found 11 of 12 numbered stones, do you then think it is really that good an idea to let the guy live and let him keep his loot? Do you confiscate the stones and let the guy off with a caution? Or do you kill him and take the stones with the intent of destroying them, or even for your own purposes? Player characters might do all of the above, depending on their background and character. But if you are, say, an Order character, a Stygian or a paladin, suddenly an FD becomes not only logical but very tempting.
Due to being a soft touch, I personally do not like to FD -- please note that this is NOT like Henry Harrison who was an aggressive PvPer with the twist that he never killed people, it is just me being a sissy. Even so I have done it. The star example was me catching a guy who only the day before had tried to invis gank me while I was sitting down without buffs in the Wastrel. After boasting about my inevitable death which I had brought down on myself, the guy went down like a ton of bricks during a subsequent fight in the Wardens. Was I going to let him walk away after that? No. The next invis gank he tried might work, so I FDed him.
QuoteThe thing is sending someone away is the most proactive thing you can do on EFU. Sure, FDing someone allows you their fat loot and more, but if you send someone away they're gonna round up a posse and try to hunt you down.
Actually, that doesn't even necessarily have to happen. One time Karrin won a three to one PvP by spamming PhKs at her attackers and then she subsequently explained to them that she had nothing with them, they had been within rights to chase her out of the Docks but that by pursuing her into the Wardens she'd felt forced to counterattack. She would let them go this time because she kinda felt the fight was her fault, but suggested they might want to play it a bit cooler because her patience wasn't endless.
Result: all three characters hated Karrin but none of them tried actively to hunt her. Sure, they spread rumours about her and one of them wrote wicked satire about her, but that was part of the game and added flavour to events. Of course someday they would probably have tried for revenge, but at least they let events wait on it, they didn't gather a posse.
QuoteThe moral of the story is try to be humble if you're humbled.
Doubled and redoubled. At least if you want to live. Also, it is kind of annoying RP-wise when someone who just lost insists on acting like they won. Try to look at it like this: you just had the shit kicked out of you and it HURTS. Would you in RL really want to tempt more pain? (Some would, and do. They very often get what they try for. Just remember, your character might be smarter than that.)