I like these guys, they're tough, but with the new ai they seem pretty brutal for a standard spawn. I've yet to be killed by one, but the fact that they can drop from invis with shield, bulls, endurance, haste and rage seems kinda intense for a regular non dm encounter.
I really think they need to be looked at and perhaps either remove thier potions OR remove them as a possibility to spawn in the waves of orcs part 1. I've yet to die to them, but I think thats just luck.
They also have very high ac after drinking thier potions, so it can be difficult to kill them before they land that critical hit that pretty much will kill most of every character who is not a barbarian or a very high con fighter.
Alternatively they could give a very high amount of experience points per kill or drop loot similiar to a hero spawn. At the moment fighting one is far more risk than reward.
I completely agree with Naga here having just been killed by one from two hits with 88 hp
I like how Naga pointed out twice he has never been killed by one.
I will contribute to the discussion acknowledging that I have never been killed by one. But these things are more powerful and deadly then most hero spawns and with all the potions they drink as well as being impossible to dispel they are pretty unstoppable especially when there is 2-3 of them on you. I will add I have never been killed by one but I know a lot of people who have been crit to death. I also have never been killed by one ever.
While I have never personally been killed by one, I have lost characters to them several times. Having not personally been killed by one though, I too think they are overpowered and agree with Naga about not having been killed by one.
I remember te chosen were good to see, they offered fun challenge and great reward. Now they are fun, remove 1/3 of your XP (wich counters the fun factor) and give no reward.
Now i finally see why people hate the potion chugging AI. Their strongest potions should be removed, IMO, shield and haste. And they should always carry a heafty amount of gold. That would make them fine... for the most part.
Crossposting from the other thread-
Quote from: "core"Perhaps invis should be removed as I don't personally feel it's a Chosen of Gaathmar's style so to speak, but I can't speak for the team on that. They present a considerable challenge that PCs who have encountered them should be aware of, but I don't think that challenge is excessive.
Never been killed by one and never seen anyone killed by one. Only heard rumours of them killing people and ruining lives. But I still whole heartedly support this post and everything said before and after.
Yesterday i saw Brok'Tor being killed by one in one hit. Brok was uninjured and had like 30 AC or something. One hit man. Same happened to Laura Milomen, one hit. Jhon steel died on that quest too. Everything was perfect untill the chosen showed up, so i assume they killed him as well. They do kill people.
The problem is not their damage, it's how long it takles to kill them when they start drinking potions as if they were soda. They already have a lot of life, but add 10% concealment, +4 AC from shield, sometimes barbskin... and even haste. Each round you fight one is 5% chance of 63 damage per attack. When it takes 10 rounds to kill them they are dangerous, when it takes 30 it's bound to happen. The potions just leave PCs too vulnerable to luck screwing them with a one-hit-kill critical.
IMO give them greatswords or flails if you're gonna keep them nearly inmortal. That way it's not THAT dangerous and you get the chance to drink a healing potion afterthey land a 20.
I thought the whole point was that they kill people. So many people saying they've never been killed by one, please buff.
I've never been killed by one either.
There's been 117 deaths to Chosens of Gaathmar.
They will continue to remain deadly.
THey always were deadly before giving them potions and invis gank galore. But a mob so stuff should spawn loot that makes fighhting them worth it in my OP.
Quote from: Talir;236012There's been 117 deaths to Chosens of Gaathmar.
They will continue to remain deadly.
Keep them deadly, but risk should equal reward. These are far more challenging than orcan hero spawns. So give them hero loot. A single chosen can change the course of a battle with ease, people who tackle them deserve the reward for the risk undertaken.
They are now as deadly as they are intended to be. I see no problem here.
Never had a problem with them personally, however I do agree they should be linked up to hero loot table...and maybe the invisibility-ganking removed.
Previously, you would watch out for these bastards, and a good team would drop whatever they were doing and kill them to death, fast. If you can't even see them now unless you can keep See Invis up in the face of dispel spam... Hot damn that's nasty. Gaathmars are the most dangerous thing on a 4-8 quest short of the Tower of Mercy Boss, IMO.
I rarely do orcs 1 because the loot's got steadily nerfed as the monsters got more powerful. In the case of Gaathmars, the risk/reward used to balance somewhat in that they dropped powerful potions. Now, they don't drop those, and the reason is that they drank them to become even more of a nightmare!
I agree that something that strong shouldn't use a greataxe. There's no skill involved in defending from ubercrits, just luck and having high HP. One possible backfire of a loot upgrade would be the hero loot table could land them with say, Ele Shield pots to drink. Can the hero loot somehow be tagged as non-drinkable to mobs?
Displacement potions are your best friends.
Scare consumables are your friends. (Which, apparently, no one ever picks up after quests, i recall picking up like 10 of those Flayer Masks with remove fear/scare someone left after the Brood Q).
Colour spray is your friend.
Hold person is your friend.
See invisibility is your friend.
Chosen of Gathmaar spawns only on Orcs 2, aside of DM events and occasional bugs. And thats about it. Them drinking all the potions now adds a challenging factor to a mind-numbing scripted quest. How about, instead of hoarding all potions for PvP, use those haste/shielding/displacement when facing the Gathmaar?
They spawn on orcs1 without the help of DMs now and then CroakingOpera.
Actually they spawn on Orcs 1 regularly, but I do agree with the sentiment of your post!
Quote from: CroakingOpera;236026Displacement potions are your best friends.
Scare consumables are your friends. (Which, apparently, no one ever picks up after quests, i recall picking up like 10 of those Flayer Masks with remove fear/scare someone left after the Brood Q).
Colour spray is your friend.
Hold person is your friend.
See invisibility is your friend.
Chosen of Gathmaar spawns only on Orcs 2, aside of DM events and occasional bugs. And thats about it. Them drinking all the potions now adds a challenging factor to a mind-numbing scripted quest. How about, instead of hoarding all potions for PvP, use those haste/shielding/displacement when facing the Gathmaar?
Check your facts, there is way too much wrong with this post to even take it seriously.
They spawn on orcs one. Everything else he said is spot on. Linking them to the hero table would only make an orcs 1 run insanely rewarding, for a large group of high level pcs.
If we want a guaranteed reward for every quest we do, then lets do this, and why not link up every quest boss to the hero loot system while we're at it?
Geeze.
Quote from: Craig210;236015risk should equal reward.
That's one assumption I strongly disagree with, especially for random spawns.
As for the OP, Ymph should have critters that people will actually flee from unless they know what they're doing.
Fleeing from them is fine. But how do you flee from something that was hasted and invisible and attacking you when you first see it? I mean, when people flee, half of the party is already dead.
I should note, that while they are intimidating, I don't much care whether they are changed or not.
They should have some or all potions removed, yes. Someone will get to it eventually. No further discussion required.