QuoteRaise Dead - The raise dead spell now requires a small diamond as a component, and has a high % chance of spell failure based on a number of factors including alignments, and how faithful a priest the caster is.
I would like to see the Raise Dead spell used a lot more by players. The current terms under which you succeed are too hard earnt, especially for something which is not gamebreaking and could add to a lot of good and interesting sessions. Being practically forced into the hands of NPC priests who will raise just about anyone seems like the poorer choice to me.
I suggest that the components become a little less rare and the factors a little less detrimental to your succes.
I think this is definitely a right to be earned, and not a standard fare.
I think what Udenbur is saying is that an NPC cleric will raise just about anyone regardless and it forces these interactions away from pc's, personally I have never seen or heard of a PC raising someone though I am sure there are such cases.
I agree. Raise Dead scrolls are easier to aquire than diamonds, and always work. The fact that a cleric has a harder time of it than a scroll is somewhat odd. I have seen clerics raise dead, but always through scrolls because who'd ever prepare it?
I'd support advantages of having a PC cast it rather than use an item. For example, if the spell is cast by a Cleric, not a scroll, the raised PC returns with more XP than they normally would. This would make a cleric with the level and components to cast it sought over an NPC. Especially with the new persistent bodies solving the "crash, where's my corpse" issue.
Let's not forget raising dead is a pretty epic feat.
PC Clerics who do such should get some very large RP points in the eyes of their deities, the society, and other PCs. In return PCs should tithe pretty well for the ability!
Less NPC raises more PC raises can be done very easily: Less DMs giving out scrolls, fewer NPCs doing such.
The last time I personally saw a PC raise a fallen ally via the Raise Dead spell (not scroll) was in the Underdark. That tells you something. However, this should just be more motivation for the folks playing PC's able to do so to start doing it more often.
Its not like there are lvl 9 clerics everywhere.
Well, I had a Cleric that could have cast the spell, even had the diamond, but I was told by a DM you had to 'earn' the right to actually cast it. *shrugs*
I guess in retrospect I should have asked what exactly that means. I mean I got 9th level, (which anyone that knows me.. that was a feat in and of its self) and had the diamond.
I took it to mean that even though I could technically cast it, I had not yet earned enough favor from my God to do so.
I would love to see some PC's allowed to cast the spell. I think the RP afterwards would be well worth it. Right now I drag a dead body to some cleric (a cleric of Ilmater bringing back a follower of Lovitar?) pay the gold and it's done. Where as with PC's it could be a little tougher than that. Plus for those not so 'goodly' inclined you have the "Life debt" now.
I have always found it a little odd that I am able to cast the spell from a scroll fairly easily as a non cleric divine caster, such as a druid, easier than I would be able to cast the spell from my spellbook as a cleric of appropriate level.
I agree that it should be a perk of a sort, but similarly I don't really believe it should be quite so hard to achieve.
Quote from: Disco;239495Its not like there are lvl 9 clerics everywhere.
Not yet.
If NPCs didn't go "LOL HAI GUYS WANNA RAISE?", I bet PCs would be more common. It would add a lot of cool use to PC clerics and otherwise.
I'm not saying get rid of the NPCs, There's timezone issues and stuff I know to see them still around. It just seems like PCs don't even bother with NPCs so present around.
I'd like to make it a bit easier than it is, yes. But for a level 9 cleric character to make this happen, I think they would need - at a minimum - a reputation, significant accomplishments on behalf of the god, and following of other PCs of the same faith. That is what "earning" it means.
I'm actually trying to get mine to 9 just for that spell.
It ought to be something special, definitely. I agree that level 9 cleric shouldn't be the only requirement.. I personally think it should come in the form of a DM overseen ritual, where you offer up some item of value (perhaps gems, a sword, gold, whatever), and you must have at least one other cleric of the same faith (or a really big offering if it's done solo).
A Raise Dead spell, in a purely mechanical sense, isn't a real good option with the way the server is set up. Considering the RP lengths one would have to go to even get "permission" (let alone a diamond), I'm happy to fork over the coin to NPCs for the time being. Even preparing the spell is a waste of a slot - PCs that are proactive tend to be far more effective than those that are reactive.
Lowering restrictions would give PCs more cause to be religious and seek the approval of high level cleric PCs who had this ability. More interactions occur, PCs who wouldn't have otherwise had dealings are forced to deal in order to avoid bankruptcy. Interesting events unfold.
This arbitrary restriction only keeps those high level clerics who should probably have spell failure anyways from doing the same thing any PC could do with some spare coins. In most cases, the average PC could just recover the losses of purchasing the spell from a successful mugging, bringing 'earn it' logic into question.
Ideally a cleric who gets to L9 will have satisfied the RP requirements to Raise Dead anyway (a reputation, followers, etc), which leaves only the diamond, and they're not massively uncommon anyway.
I rose a PC with the spell a few weeks ago, using up a diamond. So it does happen...simply a lack of clerics (not to mention a lack of clerics who get to L9) means this is somewhat rare. Which is important too I think.
Yeah - clearly it should be something to earn beyond just getting to level 9 - but simultaneously any ideas the DMs have to make it more enticing for someone to seek a PC to do it I think would be worth it. And its worth recognising that a PC earning a reputation requires mutual roleplay between them and other players. Not that I am suggesting that this is the case, but if the playerbase is too busy questing to listen to a sermon and consider how affected their PC is by it, it would be very difficult for a cleric to establish a following.
With Egon's suggestion of a slightly better XP return for a PC cast compared to the NPC cast, non-cleric players might be more willing to convert/become a follower of a particularly powerful cleric - both because it never hurts to have powerful friends, but also the assurance that as a devoted follower of said cleric and their deity, they are more likely to have preferential treatment.
In short: ideas and implementations that provide incentive for moving any aspect of the server towards more PC interactions are welcome in my book, so long as they don't devalue things that should be considered special, unusual or a perk for an excellent player.
Two quick comments:
1: I don't think raise dead is all that miraculous really, given the game world. I'm guessing 99% of PC's have at one time -already- been raised from the dead at least once.
2: If you are a lvl 9 cleric and you haven't really made some good noise or otherwise accomplished feats for your god, you should reexamine what it means to be a cleric. However, I would guess a majority of those that reach 9 on this server are probably doing a great job. It would be a shame to punish the majority of good players for the failings of a few. Instead, why not remove the ability to cast the spell from those who don't impress, thereby giving them incentive to improve their RP?
I've had at least three PCs (non-clerics) in the last two years who kept ample supplies of Raise Dead scrolls in their packs, and used them when the situation arose.
I've never even seen a small diamond, on a cleric character or otherwise. That restriction has never even been a factor for any of my PCs. It's not even really much of a restriction, because it's so easy to circumvent.