Hey guys!
I've been very impressed with EfU:M. Heck, you guys should know I've always been impressed with EfU. I love the characters and I love the NPCs. I love the stories and I love the areas. I even love the music overrides. I love everything about it! I've spent a lot of time telling a lot of people about the server and trying to get them to try it out.
The only thing I don't love is myself. I feel like I'm a terrible player- maybe at one point, I had a few ideas. But now I can't come up with any goals at all anymore. I need help from people to find goals- and then I need them to tell me how to accomplish them in-game, too. I feel like I have no more creativity left. When I send people a message, they rarely reply to me anymore because I'm probably a downer.
But I still love the place! I really want to give something back to the community, even if it's just by playing an interesting character or writing something neat. But I always encounter stumbling blocks:
A) I make a new guy. I meet some PCs and do what they tell me. Then they are not on, or die, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I look at my list of goals, but my eyes just glaze over because for every goal, I feel like I need a DM, even if I don't. Example: I watched someone make up a ritual to ward a bag with some necromancy-related component. I could never have done that! You know why? Because whenever I want to do anything, I ask myself: "Does my character know how to do this? No, I have never in my time on the server learned a magical component warding ritual. I can't just make one up!" - but people make them up all the time, with great success. My creativity has run out.
B) I leave for half a year, hoping I'll get more creative if I do. I don't. All that happens is that I miss you guys and cool new characters.
C) I can't -ever- lead anyone or anything at all. I haven't ever been proactive, ever. I'm as submissive as a banana slug, and as creative, too. How do you people manage to always know what you are going to do next? I've never been able to. I always just wait for someone to tell me what to do. How do I break out of this behavior?
D) I've analyzed over and over the PCs I have admired the most. I have poured over screenshots of the Scholar and the Mystic, of Cruloch and many others, trying to distill how they did it. Was it their emotes? The way they spoke? And yet, when I tried to imitate it, I just ran into a wall of blank brain again: I don't know how to go about any goal, no matter how cool it is. I always feel like I need a DM, or someone, to tell me what to do.
It's been so long since I started here. I've had so many good times watching neat PCs rise and fall, or just wandering alone in a really cool area while listening to the music and being happy the place exists. But I want to do more- I want to be a player that doesn't cause trouble (and I do) and that is actually remembered for what he did! And I just can't do it alone.
If you can help me with any of the things I don't have a grasp on, I'd enormously appreciate your help. I'm really looking for a mentor who can teach me the basics of leadership, of following your goals and of involving players, and most importantly: of having fun. Someone who can teach me how to meet new people in-game, how to pursue my goals, how to not just blindly follow others and get my own goals across, and so on and so forth. I need a lot of help and I can't offer you much in return, but again, if you really have nothing better to do, please send me a PM with suggestions, or write them here, or anything really. I'm at a point where I just don't see any improvement in myself anymore, and haven't for years!
In before you make fun of me for pouring my heart out on the internet.
First off, LOL.
Second off, its not real hard to come up with cool things to do or ways to rock out. I'm sure you can - you just have a block in your brain telling you, "No that's dumb, let me see what someone else says." Dude, this is the internet. Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks? Half of the people on here are fat dudes stroking their nipples.
The more you think that your idea is floundering, push it that much harder. Make people recognize you. When people are bitching or whatever, tell someone to shut their mouth and subdue them. People lead by example. Others follow that example.
Case in point; someone wasn't doing what my PC told them to do the other day, I gave them a warning, then I attacked them. As soon as I started, three other PCs jumped right in who I wasn't even relying on to help out. That is called running shit.
Make a goal. Envision it. Envision all the steps in between to make it happen. Then do them, one by one. I wish it was more complicated and there was some secret but there really isn't; if you push hard enough, everything and everyone before you will yield to your will. If you try and it doesn't work, you didn't try hard enough.
You know what you are doing most of the time.
And also, I loved what you said about reviving conflict on arabel.
I feel the same way, often, like I'm getting nowhere. Playing a henchman with his own agenda (what I'm doing now, actually) is a great way to go. Post up your goals in the Private Character Notes section of the forums, and try and keep a good number of them goals that you can accomplish without DM help (like get better at alchemy and herbalism, scout out the wilds, patrol the town, oppose a certain faction, form a PC faction, etc.) with a few goals that are something that require DM aid (Become a Musterman Officer, change the laws to something your character would agree with more, build a shrine or temple to some god, start a farm, etc.).
DM's like conflict, whether you're a hunter who goes around hunting lycanthropes, a slaver, a necromancer, a simple merchant who goes above and beyond the call of duty to oppose a thieves guild, make sure you have an enemy somewhere.
Finally, we all made our characters to do certain things. To oppose evil, to make everyone fear Bane, to murder the enemies of Cyric, to make awesome armies of undead, to become an arena champion. Remember what you made the character for and go for it, always pushing for it. Don't become complacent to just do scripted quests, if you want to be one of the awesome characters that shape the server.
As for the "Does my character know how to do this? No, I have never in my time on the server learned a magical component warding ritual. I can't just make one up!" That's one of my problems, trying to figure out how to do something that isn't mechanically supported. Do I say some prayer and throw down some gems? Do I hunt for the carapace of a rare beetle? Do I amass thousands of gold as an offering, or sacrifice one of my enemies.. or even one of my allies? Just try and speak with a DM about what you want to do, say how you'd like to do it and ask them if they think that that'd be enough for what you want to do. Though in my experience it's very difficult to get a DM to try and pull off something like this (or maybe I'm unlucky), so try and avoid having these things be the be-all end-all of your character, and work on other goals until you get noticed by the DM's, occasionally pestering them for help on your ritual.
On a serious tone, I find it best to give your character a feel is to make their philosophy and personality. LIVE BY THEM.
I find it that you can make a character in a faction, a special class, or a subrace. But if you don't give them their philosophy your character lives by, what makes them different from any random person?
Buildwise:- Find a way to mix a strong mechanical build and a crappy flavorful one.
- Take feats to explain story/character.
- A pacifist that uses a staff and tanks with imp expertise, letting others fight.
- An azuthian paladin with courteous mageocracy.
All are interesting things to do with builds.
Yes, make sure your character's philosophies are something unique.. Fanatical devotion to a cause or ideal might just be one of the main reasons the Order is so interesting.
I found three things helped me in my quest to create interesting characters.
1. Characters Are Difficult
- You are attempting to create an entire, interesting, individual out of your mind. Doing it well is not an easy thing. Thats why talented writers / movie producers make large amounts of money.
2. Start Simple
- With the above, playing a base class well is difficult and an art form. Look at it as a challenge and put some time into it. Think of it this way, you have two approaches. Keep your goals simple and unending.
- Human / Fighter: I need full plate, I like to hit things and get items.
- Gregor: A swordsman born, I have dedicated myself to mastering the sword. A simple thing in concept, difficult in practice. A never-ending goal.
3. How Do You Accomplish Your Goals
So we have a base class from above and a unending goal, now how is your character going to go about doing that? Lets go back to our two examples.
- Human / Fighter: I sit in the market and wait for someone to make a sending.
- Gregor: I seek a purpose to lend my blade to. What point is it to master the sword if there is no use for it? True I answer the challenge when some even beckons. However, what I truly seek is a cause worthy of dedicating myself to. As such I have considered the local guard force. Comrades in arms willing to lay down their lives in the defense of this small settlement.
Thats the basic way I approach character building and it manages to keep it fun for me. Pick a basic class and work on playing it very well. Then come it up with a profession or philosophy my character will use to accomplish their basic goal.
Quote from: Nightshadow;245622Fanatical devotion to a cause
That must be why people enjoy the suicide goblin.
"Martyr for the Cause"
One good bit of suggestive advice is to play a character that can function by themselves. As mentioned before, you feel lost when whatever clique has taken your character in dissapears. If it is your style then play a sidekick, but make sure you are open enough that if your partner or team dies or dissapears you can still last until the next one comes.
It sounds like you are trying a bit too hard, and I do not mean that nastily. Over-analyzing everything and coming up with unlikely expectations for yourself will only cause you problems.
What is important is playing a PC you enjoy playing, and thinking less of what others think!
I fell into that same thing for a while. You can't really over think it sometimes and the only way I got over it was to make a semi-comical character for the militia and charge people fifty gold. It turned out to be more fun and more serious than expected, it might be worth a shot to do the same thing.
It generally seems like you're over-analyzing things. If you want to do something you should do it. Ultimately this is a game, and you should pursue the things you feel are most fun, regardless of how creative others view it, or how well praised it is.
Creativity doesn't just manifest on it's own over time, nor does it necessarily require complexity. There's nothing wrong with emulating what you see is fun or successful, and adding your own twist to it. A lot of things on EFU ultimately come down to happenstance, so if you fail, it's no big deal, it happens, try to enjoy the ride and do better next time.
Not every character needs to be in the spotlight either, and it's not really for everybody to play one like that. Though the characters you noted got where they were by a combination of being cool, skilled, and fortunate, there are plenty of henchmen and lame ducks that are just as entertaining to watch, if not more. Those big names started somewhere; they weren't just badasses immediately.
An idea is to make a simple canvas-like character and hang out with whoever seems interesting, maybe eventually adopting some of their philosophies. This way you might witness something enjoyable and interesting and share in some yourself, while providing support to whoever you'd probably like to see be successful. Maybe when they die off you can take the leader's mantle while already being given an example of how to direct.
Anyways, you should make less self-depreciating topics and focus on enjoying yourself.
Hi friend! Though I didn't read most of your post I would like to also give some advice.
I've noticed that your cute PCs are both your greatest strength and greatest weakness. This has been a problem for a number of young EFUers in the past, such as core. Just like core, you need to branch out and leave your fruitsy-tootsy characters safely tucked away on the anime dvd shelf, and adopt a more manly, but not necessarily a more hetero, personality for your next concept. Similiarly to core, this should solve most of your problems.
So good luck! Let me know how it turns out.
Jasede, play a Spectator. Or some other floating eyeball. Oh wait.
No, really. Do what you're doing man, I've always thought you're great, and love seeing your player name around.
If you're personally unsatisfied, then go back and re-read all the advice above me and below me. It's all quite spot on. Nobody wants you to fail or thinks that you have.
My own advice is to see what you can accomplish with a neutral male human fighter. That is the truest test of creativity. You don't even need to play the character, just design from that template. Whatever you come up with is all you, and not tinted by preconceived notions of race/class/alignment. It's quite eye-opening.
I advise you to keep an in-character journal. After a short while, themes and goals will start to pop out at you.
Just relax, Jasede, and do what you think is fun. As far as I can tell you're doing fine.
To start off, I’d say nothing is wrong with supporting another player in what agenda they are trying to push. Infact sometimes I feel on EFU that too many people are trying to do their own thing, which actually hinders their own progress and the progress of others.
Too many chiefs, not enough Indians, has been mentioned more than once on the server, by players and DM’s.
2) I’ve played EFU for just over a year, during my time I’ve had plenty of characters. But the ones I like to remember, and the ones other’s enjoyed are the ones that brought conflict to the server. It’s what EFU is all about, it’s that thing we love to win. Make enemies, and out smart them.
You don’t need to be a PvP god, or a criminal mastermind to make conflict. You just have to look at the setting, who is playing what and think. This, this is what will make most people hate me, this is what will turn the odds.
Sendings, public notices are a nice way to go about it. But not fully required to make conflict. Players go about it in all different forms. It doesn’t matter if you loose, if your run was short lived. If you make an impact players and DM’s will take note.
3) Meet new players, old players you may not have spoken too or the abundance of new players we seem to have right now. Everyone has a story, a reason for playing. Meet with them, spark something up. Whether it be an epic bromance or even a rivalry .
4) You say your creativity is gone, truth be told I don’t think everyone always plays a new brilliant idea. We all have those characters who just don’t appeal to us, and we quit. We sometimes retry old idea’s in a new form. Or even go as far to style a concept over a TV show we love to watch(Gladiator concept = Spartacus).
5) We have a new setting, with associations. This is great fun, and I encourage more players to interact with them, you wont get “guidance†but you will get to interact with a tonne of different pc’s. With inter faction conflict, and of course the other associations.
6) Sometimes I feel like players but too much emphasis on DM’s paying attention. Yes, it’s nice to get loot, to be able to do things with a DM that change the server. But I wouldn’t say go out actively looking for it. Play for yourself, do what you enjoy, and more often than not a DM will come to you. If you’re throwing characters away after 2-3 weeks because of no interaction then why should a DM or even a player invest in you.
I heart you Jasede. And many of your characters. It can be tough at times when I don't "feel" a characters personality coming out well, and why I ditch characters for others.
Keep at it dude, I like RPing alongside you.
Well, if you know that you are a terrible player, than maybe you just found a key to your problem?
I am a terrible player too, and I don't really know what to do when being alone, and I don't know much about places to go and quests to take, so I am not a good leader for the questing.
BUT, yesterday I had a kick in my butt, had really fun time playing, doing "mercenary stuff", and later having a really pleasant time, thanks to my friend, that shown me this server.
I died, I lost my long awaited level (it was a bit smashing), I was robbed by some
from almost all my possession (I do hope you will choke on these potions), but I had fun, so I don't mind so much (besides loosing my money).
So, to top it up, if you really don't know what to do, keep an watchful eye on the messages people send, don't waste occasions for partying, even if you will be sticking back, not to get killed (get yourself some ranged weapon if you are some king of warrior), people don't mind this, and perfectly understand that you may be more squishy than others (but they may still tease you IC).
A) The question you are rising is very accurate, Your character shouldn't do something he don't know anything about.
My question arises, what do your character know? You should have some, even small, concept about your character and his knowledge.
And remember, that not everyone on the server have to be all-knowing magicians (magicians tend to know a lot more than others), I am for example, an simple mercenary, that don't know shit about magic, and had to bug some mage to help him with this stuff.
B) Not much I could say, besides that I don't play much NWN, and I missed whole lifespan of my friends character this way, doing nothing. I envy people, that plays the game a lot more, than I, as I would like to do all this fun stuff and such.
I just don't have the heart to play it for too long (and I hate NWN and DnD, really).
C) Well, I avoid the problem by not playing the leader types, this is just not for me.
If you want to do something big for your character, have some storyline, than you should start shaping it outside of the game. Making a points, that would lead you to something is a very good way to flesh up your character, as he will be doing something in game.
I made a VERY simple mercenary, that only got name and short description (which by the way shouldn't be too long, as I, for example, don't bother reading it all, if it's wall of text) that I plan to expand while playing (you can do that in game, thanks to some nifty scripts).
D) Try with something simple. For example, character that grinds his teeth from time to time, and irritates people with it, no doubt. A character that have broken leg and can't run for too long, having to support himself with stick. Person that speaks with some stupid accent, that he made out.
This is that simple, nothing deep and developed, just a thing or two, that makes your character stand out a bit.
The problem is, that I can make hundred of characters now, but when doing my own, that I am going to play, I am blank and it takes some time before I am happy with my decisions.
Have you ever tried to join any faction, DM or not? This way you will almost instantly gather people around you, and in good leaded factions, I am sure you will learn a lot of good stuff.
Maybe you could try contacting someone in game or out of it (by forum post or something), to be his/her apprentice? No shame in that, and may be really fun to play, especially if you both have similar playing time.
I am a warrior, and if you would make one, that would need some training in the art of war, I could take you under my wing. Never tried such thing before, so it may be fun.
There are players, that make posts about concepts they are willing to make, and that they are looking for players to join. Look that up too, as it may lead you to making character you would never thought you would make.
I agree with Howland you're doing just fine. I can empathize and maybe even sympathize with what you are or were feeling when you wrote this post. Here's my two cents.
A) Leaders and tyrants, good and evil PCs live short lives. They have certain goals, and write tons of applications. Applications for faction, application for forums, applications for PrCs, applications for special quests, applications for rituals, applications for NPC interaction. Damn near applications for anything you can think of regarding seeing a goal completed. The likelihood of the ritual you saw was probably a product of an application or goal listed in an application, and a DM noticed it in their PCs journal and decided to help out. When all else fails, talk to a DM, and write and application. If it fails then its probably not the direction the server is heading in, or not closely related to the current plots. Try not to get dicouraged, and develop another scheme.
B) Breaks are good. After a 6 month or more break back in orginal EFU I came back and noticed all hell had broke loose and the server was changed. Epic characters had come and went and I was pissed I wasn't apart of it. I also noticed I had a new playground with more equipment and fun stuff to play with.
C) Everyone is usually battling for leadership roles. There are just some players that are going to win them. But for me leadership is picking an area with no leader and declaring myself Mister BAMF and rocking that out.
Also some players just -know- what the server needs. I've always seen Caddies, RwG, Wern, and honestly the whole DM team as players knew intuitively what the server needed. Granted this was long before they ever were selected as DMs.
As I see it now the server needs:
A PC searching for the Crown of the Isles,
A PC searching for Netherese Artifacts to fix the Conclave,
A PC searching for ways to kill or trap H'bala,
A PC searching for ways to increase food supply,
A PC searching for people to protect Mistlocke,
A PC searching for votes to be the next Mayor,
A PC searching for whatever!
Take your start from one of the main plot points and go from there.
D) I know my limitations, and I know I can't play like other people. I can play like myself and have fun doing that. Its what gives me my joy. I know I can't type dwarf speech. Its impossible for me. I can type thieves cant on the fly decently. I can't type fast. So my emotes or speechs are going to be simple. I get lost in all the action that happens in events, dungeons, or politics of the server because of this I tend to miss key points. I am kind hearted and I don't like to see other people's PCs die so I will sacrifice my own heal to try and heal them by playing the hero. That's me not the character, and because of this the character dies a lot. I have a hard time playing an evil and mean character towards other characters. Again, that me in real life and not letting the character be the character in the game. I guess for me its important that I know my limitations, but its also good that I try to get outside them occasionally to challenge myself.
I know not all my character's are going to be top shelf quality, but damn it I'm playing a game and I'm having fun. Try to let yourself do the same.
I've always enjoyed playing with you and your characters man.
For instance, Ko was probably one of my favorite palemasters. So clearly you are perfectly capable of pulling something cool out of your hat, but how you go about it, I think only you can tell.
Try to remember those characters in the past you've considered more or less a success. Think about what you did to achieve it and learn from that.